Why Does Spontaneous Enlightenment Happen?

[Orb]

Why? 

 

We got people who say meditate for years and enlightenment will happen. 

 

We got people who say forget meditation.

 

We got people who just become enlightened. 

 

If enlightenment has occurred for people spontaneously, why should I meditate? 

 

I don't wanna meditate for years to get enlightened, are you kidding me?! 

 

If I'm begging God/Source for this enlightenment, why doesn't the suffering fade away immediately?

 

How come there are seekers who seek all their lives yet never find?

[Lotus]

This also raises the question of what it takes to ‚get enlightened‘ and free will.

 

Though it‘s true, and ‚I‘ had a taste of it, answers like „There‘s no you to get enlightened“ are kinda dissatisfactory.

 

At the same time, it‘s impossible for me to get enlightened, because it is not a me which gets enlightened. It seems like enlightenment is the fall away of a me. Very strange loopey. 

 

Interesting questions, I‘d like to know too. Lmao. The irony. I‘d like to know. 

[Forza21]

I think, The one who seems to ask this question must perish. Exhaust the seeker, become questionless, get out the way. 🥰

 

[MazE]

Believe it or not there is a tutorial to awakening it's called a new earth. But it's not enough for people. If there a belief that you should seek for 10 years you will follow this belief. 

[Phil]

The misunderstanding at play is that there is such a thing as an enlightened self or selves. The resolve is inspection of the thoughts and reasoning - ‘seeing’ the implication of the separate self and recognizing this is the activity of thought. Meditation is allowing the activity of thought to settle, dispel, or disappear. Then thoughts about separate selves meditating, becoming enlightened, or which are separate of God aren’t being believed. Without the beliefs only the Truth remains. 

[Lotus]

3 hours ago, Phil said:

Then thoughts about separate selves meditating, becoming enlightened, or which are separate of God aren’t being believed. Without the beliefs only the Truth remains. 

What then makes the difference?

 

Person A is meditating since 7 years with no teacher and with direct experience only, and finally dispels all beliefs. A „made it“.

 

Person B is trying to do the same and meditates since 15 years with no teacher and with direct experience only, yet still believes all the beliefs, despite trying to dispel beliefs.

 

Why is it working for A, but not B, though both have the same intention of freeing themselves of beliefs? Karma? The way they were conditioned? Is A‘s direct experience „skill“ superior to B‘s direct experience „skill“ (though it‘s not really a skill but actuality)?

[Orb]

@Lotus great question, I've seen so many seekers through YouTube who are nearing old age (no offense) and theyre still seeking despite meditation for a long time. 

[Phil]

40 minutes ago, Lotus said:

What then makes the difference?

Belief, willingness to meditate… and most often willingness to express & understand discord (suffering), and inspect and dispel discordant beliefs. 

 

The most common obstacle is the admittance that there is discord / suffering. The first noble truth. Collectively speaking it’s so common place there is a mass assumption to say the least that it’s ‘just how it is’ / ‘just how I am’ / ‘that’s just reality’. Essentially, shame is so rampant that suffering is sort of kept secret and there is a reluctance to talk about it. 

40 minutes ago, Lotus said:

 

Person A is meditating since 7 years with no teacher and with direct experience only, and finally dispels all beliefs. A „made it“.

 

Person B is trying to do the same and meditates since 15 years with no teacher and with direct experience only, yet still believes all the beliefs, despite trying to dispel beliefs.

 

Why is it working for A, but not B, though both have the same intention of freeing themselves of beliefs? Karma? The way they were conditioned? Is A‘s direct experience „skill“ superior to B‘s direct experience „skill“ (though it‘s not really a skill but actuality)?

Talking about the activity of thought & beliefs is a tricky ‘thing’. 

That there is a person A and a person B and a difference is the activity of thought, is belief. 

I would not however attribute anything in this regard to skill. That would be the thinking of an adding, vs an inspecting & dispelling of beliefs which isn’t a skill and is something anyone can readily do. The willingness to & often some guidance, suggestions or advice are much more relevant. 

 

Also, kind of stepping back for a minute… no meditation, expression, inspection of thoughts / beliefs or ‘work’ of any kind  is actually needed whatsoever. How realistic is that though? It seems to be very unrealistic. Yet also because of the nature of apparent duality, any method or approach can be turned into or held to be preventative of self realization. I like the framing of the direct path and the progressive path.

 

In any case it is conditioning being undone, so in one sense each experiential conditioning is unique, while that which is believing / seems to be conditioned is One in the same. An analogy… if everyone was going to get to the moon, there would be all kinds of ideas and ways… but once there, it would be the very same moon. 

 

[Lotus]

@Phil Thanks for the answer, much appreciated!

 

3 minutes ago, Phil said:

Also, kind of stepping back for a minute… no meditation, expression, inspection of thoughts / beliefs or ‘work’ of any kind  is actually needed whatsoever.

Yep, that was the exact reason why I asked. After having first tasted Truth, it was apparent to me that spirituality is not about a way which one has to go, though it might seem like that from the outside. Meditation became nothing more than relaxing, allowing myself to feel good and allowing to receive. Perhaps, one day, enlightenment will be received. If not, that's cool too. Life's bitter-sweet and beautiful. Couldn't ask for more. ❤️

[Phil]

@Lotus

That. Is. Awesome. And of course… it does bring to mind some inspection potential of …one day and  “the receiver”… in the It’s This sense. 

But of course I digress. Lol. 

 

[Orb]

@Phil what is the difference between the direct/progressive path? Are both valid? 

[Lotus]

6 hours ago, Phil said:

That. Is. Awesome. And of course… it does bring to mind some inspection potential of …one day and  “the receiver”… in the It’s This sense. 

 

Yep, there's still a lot to unravel there. 

[Dima]

@Orb pure magic, every path is unique, when you wake up depends only on you, just have to figure out who are you. 🙂

[Orb]

@Dima im enjoying it 🖤.

[Dima]

@Orb that's the most important thing - to enjoy. This whole show is just for you to enjoy. In times when there is no enjoyment just notice that you are not thinking but observer, observe observer so to speak 🙏

[Phil]

On 7/27/2022 at 12:35 PM, Orb said:

@Phil what is the difference between the direct/progressive path? Are both valid? 

Progressive leans towards methods & practices like meditation, yoga, etc. Direct is more realization-right-now oriented, or, the recognition nothing could get you closer to you. 

[Orb]

@Phil ah got it 👍.

[LfcCharlie4]

 

10 hours ago, Phil said:

Progressive leans towards methods & practices like meditation, yoga, etc. Direct is more realization-right-now oriented, or, the recognition nothing could get you closer to you. 

 

10 hours ago, Orb said:

@Phil ah got it 👍.

 

This is 100% the case, however, it doesn't meant alignment & 'The Work' doesn't happen in the direct path, it just happens after instead of before realization. 

 

The best metaphor is Rupert's saying awakening is only chapter one, chapter 2 onwards is then alignment with this understanding, living the truth and this never, ever ends! 

 

You'll still have a personality, you'll still have this good old human body etc, so its not like you become above the rules!

 

[Joseph Maynor]

Enlightenment happens when you realize the self on some level is Awareness.  That's a major shift in identity.  That was a spontaneous realization for me.  It happened back in 2015 or so.  There was a path up to this point, and then a path after this point.  But the point was significant too.  It was a major shift.  I think that's what people mean when they say someone became spontaneously enlightened.

Edited February 2 by Joseph Maynor