My thoughts of Leo and actualize.org. What do you think?

[Orb]

@Tarak haha I'm actually 200% all about responsibility! 

 

but its a twisted thing, because some people are in fragile mental health situations that involve giving their responsibility to the teachers they follow.

 

I think it's a teachers responsibility to be aware of this and know that while we are all responsible for our actions, there are some people who aren't aware of it yet if that makes sense.

[Tarak]

9 minutes ago, Orb said:

@Tarak haha I'm actually 200% all about responsibility! 

 

but its a twisted thing, because some people are in fragile mental health situations that involve giving their responsibility to the teachers they follow.

 

I think it's a teachers responsibility to be aware of this and know that while we are all responsible for our actions, there are some people who aren't aware of it yet if that makes sense.

I hear you and a part of me agrees. I'm happy we had a respectful discussion and maybe one day we'll tackle this topic again 🙂 But now Tarak needs his bed.

Peace out 🙏

[Orb]

@Tarak 😴🙏

[bardh]

I didn't know what to do with my time, so I checked out Leo Gura video. I watched only from these time stamps 1 hr 46 m to 1 hr 58 min. For my opinion he is speaking basic common knowledge bundled up with completely irrational thoughts. When I see the positive comments - it is actually weird how in 21 century  people are this fucking stupid. Its 12 minutes go and watch it. 

 

He says and I try to quote him here: we are entangled in language and this presents an enormous epistemic challenge and then he says even metaphysical ones because metaphysic is tied with epistemology. Then he continue to say the problem with language it is that it is relative,  even his notion of Jesus is different than everybody else. Literally every people in the planet has a different idea of what every word means...Then he ends up talking about how we can condition children to call everything energy and why do we think that wanting to fuck a goat is bad.

 

He even says: your idea of the chicken is not the same as my idea of the chicken then the interviewer replies, man I really thought what a chicken is but i had no idea what you thought a chicken is.   

 

A chicken is 🐔pok pok, hellooo?

 

 

He does not make any sense at all, and if I focus on the ideas that he is trying to get across some of them make sense to some degree. Still most of them super cheap epistemology. They interviewer said we need a new word for what Leo Gura calls love(infinite consciousness) but Leo Gura insist in calling everything love.  This in itself is the fcking end of epistemology.

 

What even worse is that I believe he truly beliefs he is on to something(w/e the saying is).

 

 

[Jonas Long]

3 hours ago, bardh said:

I didn't know what to do with my time, so I checked out Leo Gura video. I watched only from these time stamps 1 hr 46 m to 1 hr 58 min. For my opinion he is speaking basic common knowledge bundled up with completely irrational thoughts. When I see the positive comments - it is actually weird how in 21 century  people are this fucking stupid. Its 12 minutes go and watch it. 

 

He says and I try to quote him here: we are entangled in language and this presents an enormous epistemic challenge and then he says even metaphysical ones because metaphysic is tied with epistemology. Then he continue to say the problem with language it is that it is relative,  even his notion of Jesus is different than everybody else. Literally every people in the planet has a different idea of what every word means...Then he ends up talking about how we can condition children to call everything energy and why do we think that wanting to fuck a goat is bad.

 

He even says: your idea of the chicken is not the same as my idea of the chicken then the interviewer replies, man I really thought what a chicken is but i had no idea what you thought a chicken is.   

 

A chicken is 🐔pok pok, hellooo?

 

 

He does not make any sense at all, and if I focus on the ideas that he is trying to get across some of them make sense to some degree. Still most of them super cheap epistemology. They interviewer said we need a new word for what Leo Gura calls love(infinite consciousness) but Leo Gura insist in calling everything love.  This in itself is the fcking end of epistemology.

 

What even worse is that I believe he truly beliefs he is on to something(w/e the saying is).

 

 

This is dumb in many ways...

For one, he did NOT "invent" the analogy of the isolated child/teaching different words/concepts...this idea shows up many places, including in the great movie dogtooth.  This again demonstrates Leo's incredibly insular existence where he hasn't exposed himself much to life and thus concepts that are fairly commonplace are often totally foreign to him.  Not only this, but his take on this analogy is so boneheaded I don't know where to begin to even pick it apart... if he actually does write a book it will be hilarious because it will be absolutely trashed by anyone outside of his, relatively small, cult following.  And then he'll have to explain why they all don't understand it because their awakenings are incomplete. 

[bardh]

6 hours ago, Lester Retsel said:

This is dumb in many ways...

For one, he did NOT "invent" the analogy of the isolated child/teaching different words/concepts...this idea shows up many places, including in the great movie dogtooth.  This again demonstrates Leo's incredibly insular existence where he hasn't exposed himself much to life and thus concepts that are fairly commonplace are often totally foreign to him.  Not only this, but his take on this analogy is so boneheaded I don't know where to begin to even pick it apart... if he actually does write a book it will be hilarious because it will be absolutely trashed by anyone outside of his, relatively small, cult following.  And then he'll have to explain why they all don't understand it because their awakenings are incomplete. 

++

[Iesu]

On 4/22/2022 at 8:12 AM, Cupcake said:

 

Plus Leo never invented these teachings. These teachings existed even before Leo existed 

 

 

Lol he will have you fooled that he did though. So he can do whatever he wants. Once you really step back and look at what Leo is doing it's pretty disturbing 

[Iesu]

On 4/22/2022 at 5:57 AM, Cupcake said:

 

Stop demonizing Leo

 

Leo is a kind human being. 

 

 

 

Lol reminds me of the time he said he would think less of women for sleeping with weak minded men and that he doesn't love you personally. 

[Orb]

@Joseph Maynor I'd say the purpose of this thread is for all concerns/opinions regarding Leo's behavior to be aired out. 

 

i think once youve expressed enough, its better to let it go, forgive, and move on.

 

I asked earlier in this thread if it would be appropriate to lock the thread, but truth is I think it should be left open for any new members to just release those thoughts onto here. 

 

Once expression has finished, naturally the thread will wither away.

[Tarak]

8 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I feel like it ain't right to continue to talk smack about Leo.   Remember this, Leo can respond too if he wants to.  So far he hasn't.  If you sow the seeds of bad karma back things come from that.  Poor guy is obviously not making videos and is probably going through something.  I don't know what more needs to be said here.  If you disagree with me, let's try to keep the conversation from digressing into being triggered.

Yep. Like every human being he has good traits and bad traits, has done good things and bad things. He who is without sin, cast the first stone...

[Iesu]

17 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I feel like it ain't right to continue to talk smack about Leo.   Remember this, Leo can respond too if he wants to.  So far he hasn't.  If you sow the seeds of bad karma back things come from that.  What goes around comes around.  Poor guy is obviously not making videos and is probably going through something.  I don't know what more needs to be said here.  If you disagree with this, let's try to keep the conversation from digressing into being triggered.

The poor guy calls people idiots and stupid every other post. And treats women like dogs. If Leo responds I'm dropping my Addy 

Only bad karma I'm getting Is on my credit score

Edited April 23, 2022 by Iesu

[Iesu]

7 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

It's also kind underhanded to have this kind of discussion without Leo being able to respond.  I understand there are 2 lengthy threads on Actualized that do this to Phil (Nahm) too.  But one of the most fundamental principles of good faith communication is to give the person being complained about (1) notice of the complaint and (2) an ability to be heard in response (3) in a fair proceeding.

I logged in and the first response was literally fuck nahm 

[Tarak]

3 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

It's also kind underhanded to have this kind of discussion without Leo being able to respond.  I understand there are 2 threads on Actualized that do this to Phil too.  But one of the most fundamental principles of good faith communication is to give the person being complained about (1) notice of the complaint and (2) an ability to be heard in response (3) in a fair proceeding.

As far as I understand this thread is not a court case, but more like a express-your-frustrations-about-the-whole-situation thread. I'd dare to say that 80-90% of the messages so far were quite well substantiated and not just trashing on Leo (I even asked to send him love), but off course, there will always be some that have strong emotions and need to vent it. I don't think this thread is unfair, and I think this thread is needed for quite a bit of people to give it all a place.

Not sure if it translates well to English, but here we have a saying: "high trees catch a lot of wind". And as Orb said: once everything is ventilated, this thread will die out.
 

[Jonas Long]

11 minutes ago, Tarak said:

As far as I understand this thread is not a court case, but more like a express-your-frustrations-about-the-whole-situation thread. I'd dare to say that 80-90% of the messages so far were quite well substantiated and not just trashing on Leo (I even asked to send him love), but off course, there will always be some that have strong emotions and need to vent it. I don't think this thread is unfair, and I think this thread is needed for quite a bit of people to give it all a place.

Not sure if it translates well to English, but here we have a saying: "high trees catch a lot of wind". And as Orb said: once everything is ventilated, this thread will die out.
 

For every action an equal reaction...leo has done more than his fair share of straight up trashing.  Whether it's women, his followers, or human beings in general....he's got everything in this thread and more coming to him. 

[Iesu]

6 minutes ago, Lester Retsel said:

For every action an equal reaction...leo has done more than his fair share of straight up trashing.  Whether it's women, his followers, or human beings in general....he's got everything in this thread and more coming to him. 

+1 

Last message to leo was karmas a bitch 

[Aware Wolf]

19 hours ago, bardh said:

I didn't know what to do with my time, so I checked out Leo Gura video. I watched only from these time stamps 1 hr 46 m to 1 hr 58 min. For my opinion he is speaking basic common knowledge bundled up with completely irrational thoughts. When I see the positive comments - it is actually weird how in 21 century  people are this fucking stupid. Its 12 minutes go and watch it. 

 

He says and I try to quote him here: we are entangled in language and this presents an enormous epistemic challenge and then he says even metaphysical ones because metaphysic is tied with epistemology. Then he continue to say the problem with language it is that it is relative,  even his notion of Jesus is different than everybody else. Literally every people in the planet has a different idea of what every word means...Then he ends up talking about how we can condition children to call everything energy and why do we think that wanting to fuck a goat is bad.

 

He even says: your idea of the chicken is not the same as my idea of the chicken then the interviewer replies, man I really thought what a chicken is but i had no idea what you thought a chicken is.   

 

A chicken is 🐔pok pok, hellooo?

 

 

He does not make any sense at all, and if I focus on the ideas that he is trying to get across some of them make sense to some degree. Still most of them super cheap epistemology. They interviewer said we need a new word for what Leo Gura calls love(infinite consciousness) but Leo Gura insist in calling everything love.  This in itself is the fcking end of epistemology.

 

What even worse is that I believe he truly beliefs he is on to something(w/e the saying is).

 

 

 

@Lester Retsel

 

Good catch. 

 

Agree. Ya. Confused. I pity the interviewer. i wouldn't have the patience. 

 

 

[Aware Wolf]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

It's also kind underhanded to have this kind of discussion without Leo being able to respond.  I understand there are 2 lengthy threads on Actualized that do this to Phil (Nahm) too.  But one of the most fundamental principles of good faith communication is to give the person being complained about (1) notice of the complaint and (2) an ability to be heard in response (3) in a fair proceeding.

 

 

Leo Gura is a public figure. This is a forum. It's not a New York Times article that requires sources and vetting. One of the prime movers in taking Keith Raniere of NXIVM to justice was a  tabloid style website called the Frank Report by someone who had a grudge against Raniere. If someone posts here about Charles Manson and Heaven's Gate -- it would be ridiculous to adhere to good faith communication and some overly liberal view of fairness. "Some people say Charles Manson was a devil -- other's say he's literally Man's Son. Maybe the Truth is somewhere in between. What is Truth?" Are we being fair to Charles Manson and Marshall Applewhite?  /s 

 

Who cares? 

 

What's been interesting to me is the number of people who Leo has adversely affected. This thread has been useful for this and letting people vent and also to put Leo's teachings and actions under the microscope. 

 

 

[Aware Wolf]

@Joseph Maynor Fairness for what purpose ? 

 

If Leo Gura was on trail, and I was on the jury for let's say his contributing to suicide -- I would try my utmost to be fair. If I was writing a case study of Actualized and Leo, I might endeavor to be fair and 100% accurate as I could. I'd ask Leo if he wanted to give input. 

 

However, if I was writing a personal review of Leo Gura and Actualized, I'd feel free to vent and express my opinion. I might call Leo a pseudo-intellectual and chucklefuck and his followers simps. 

 

It's not the blind leading the blind to criticize Leo. People have written of their experience and their opinion. Am I blind for pointing out Leo's errors? Am I blind for saying Leo often authoratively lectures on subjects he knows little about and are outside his wheelhouse? Am I blind for posting Leo's obnoxious remarks on Pickup & women and how women smell like fish? I don't see it that way. 

 

If someone posts something about myriad issues on a forum, I'm not concerned with 100% fairness at all. It's an opportunity to opinionize in an informal way. Are movie reviews "fair"? What would a "fair" movie review even look like? What's wrong with someone expressing whether they liked the movie or not? Red Letter Media does some hilarious reviews where they roast movies and series. Is it fair? That's the wrong question to ask. It's not designed to be fair. Leo, like a movie, is fair game, it's not required for the movie producers and directors to be given a chance to respond. 

 

Finally, if this thread isn't to your liking, perhaps look elsewhere. Seriously, why waste your time? If it's done for you, it's done. 

[Iesu]

[Aware Wolf]

27 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

@Aware Wolf  I know right now for whatever reason you don't want to hear my message, but maybe one day you will.  Be compassionate.  We're not being fair in this thread.  I will fight for fairness if I'm provoked - you'll watch me.  I'll make a series of 3 hour YouTube videos on this sh*t.  I'm not going to stand for people being bullied on my watch.  Folks, stop abusing people.  It ain't right!  Check yourself!  Face your own unhappiness instead of blaming Leo Gura for your troubles.  I'm gonna fight for what I think is right, I don't care who you are.  My life is based on taking right action as I see it.

 

I like you and I like what you have to say.

My POV Is that we're not required to be compassionate all the time in all situations. Should we as Leo Gura demands, love Hitler? I don't see it. If someone is delusional -- are we not allowed to call this out? Is there a place for whistleblowers? The people who called out gurus and teachers for bad behavior are heroes  -- why should you put the fault on them for not being completely "fair". Jeezus. Hitler did build the autobahns, I hear ya. 

 

The Internet is a huge marketplace of ideas and opinions. Maybe some are more concerned with Truth than compassion. Maybe some are more concerned with telling a good story. But good luck in your fight to bring compassion to those like Leo Gura, who doesn't really need it, and if you asked him about your support, if he answered you at all, would probably laugh. There's a ton of work for you on this, last I checked, Twitter, Facebook, and Reddit and most social media are critical, which for you seems to mean, unfair and not being compassionate. 

 

You like philosophy and I am reminded of Karl Popper who spoke of the benefits of criticism and an open society. Authoritarian regimes limit criticism. And so there's little opportunity to self-correct. If we insult the dictator, we're not being fair are we? Are we being compassionate to criticize Putin? Hmm.