Who here has been meditating consistently for at least 2 months?

[Orb]

Seeing as there are many questions on this forum regarding LoA, Dreamboard, Emotions, etc. It seems that meditation done consistently may be the answer to some of the questions we have. 

 

I'm curious to see who meditates consistently for at least 2 months on this forum. This is not a contest to see who's most conscious or anything, just being honest. 

 

While I've meditated a lot, I will admit I have not done so consistently in a long time, so my answer would be a No, but it's nice to see clearly that meditation itself is the answer! 

Edited June 26, 2022 by Orb

[fopylo]

The problem I face is that trap, this goddamn trap that I fall blindly to all the time: Doing meditation for the sake of______.

When I do meditation for the sake of something, then I'm not meditating.

When I do meditation for any other reason other than for the enjoyment of it, I am not meditating.

This brings up many confusions, as to why I'm even meditating in the first place - Why even meditate?

If supposedly meditation is to help receive those answers, then you're not meditating.

But then... isn't knowing and understanding something great?

It is such a paradox, a paradox that I keep failing to understand.

To be clear, I am no avid meditator,

Just a guy who wants to achieve a change,

and thus the loop is still running,

anticipating a day when I stop,

look up, and know,

Truly Know.

[MazE]

The problem with meditation is that is though like something that you do. You do meditation to just be but you are always being. Of course you can practice meditation for an X time everyday and enjoy it and nothing wrong with that but the idea that you should meditate for 20 years to reach something is imo very stupid. 

The goal of meditation is for it to transition to everyday life. Someone can start with sitting meditation but then what is stopping you to meditate while you wash the dishes or when you work or walk or talk with others or when someone is screaming at you. It's always now after all. To sit for 20' and meditate implies that when the 20' are over you are done for the day and stop. 

I'm not saying there are no benefits but if someone ever realizes to their core that there is only ever now then you can't meditate for 20'. You can only meditate now which is always.

[Phil]

@Orb

Yes. 

12 hours ago, fopylo said:

The problem I face is that trap, this goddamn trap that I fall blindly to all the time: Doing meditation for the sake of______.

When I do meditation for the sake of something, then I'm not meditating.

When I do meditation for any other reason other than for the enjoyment of it, I am not meditating.

This brings up many confusions, as to why I'm even meditating in the first place - Why even meditate?

If supposedly meditation is to help receive those answers, then you're not meditating.

But then... isn't knowing and understanding something great?

It is such a paradox, a paradox that I keep failing to understand.

To be clear, I am no avid meditator,

Just a guy who wants to achieve a change,

and thus the loop is still running,

anticipating a day when I stop,

look up, and know,

Truly Know.

Meditate for enlightenment, which is not a thing anyone gets. The realization there is not a you which is or is not meditating. Realization ‘occurs’ precisely because the separate self and separation are the activity of thought , and it is the activity of thought which settles in meditation. All that remains is what was previously thought to be enjoyment, the true nature, the truth. 

Knowing and understanding are apparent, not paradoxical. Paradox is also apparent.
 

To receive answers, insight etc, contemplate. Write a question down, allow the mind to meditatively clear, and the answer will arise. 
 

Change can’t be achieved because all there is of experience is apparent change. Change is already achieved, it’s This.

 

Without separate self referential thoughts there can be no experience of thought loops. 
 

Write what’s desired on the dreamboard, allow thought activity (about a separate self) to settle in meditation. This is ‘getting out of your own way’, waking out of the matrix, or, allowing, receiving, vibrationally matching the desire. 

 

2 hours ago, MazE said:

The problem with meditation is that is though like something that you do. You do meditation to just be but you are always being. Of course you can practice meditation for an X time everyday and enjoy it and nothing wrong with that but the idea that you should meditate for 20 years to reach something is imo very stupid. 

The goal of meditation is for it to transition to everyday life. Someone can start with sitting meditation but then what is stopping you to meditate while you wash the dishes or when you work or walk or talk with others or when someone is screaming at you. It's always now after all. To sit for 20' and meditate implies that when the 20' are over you are done for the day and stop. 

I'm not saying there are no benefits but if someone ever realizes to their core that there is only ever now then you can't meditate for 20'. You can only meditate now which is always.

Is it fair to say that problem, is a problem with meditation?

Of course One is always being, but One is also being the activity of thought. One asleep in the matrix is being, one experiencing and or attached to incessant rumination is being. But this is not quite the same as cessation.  Similarly, the realization there is no Now. 

[MazE]

2 hours ago, Phil said:

@Orb

 

Is it fair to say that problem, is a problem with meditation?

Of course One is always being, but One is also being the activity of thought. One asleep in the matrix is being, one experiencing and or attached to incessant rumination is being. But this is not quite the same as cessation.  Similarly, the realization there is no Now. 

By being i mean cessation. If there is now or not is not important. Having 25 awakenings and counting is not cessation either. The first point was that meditation is most often looked at like lifting weights. I sit, i lift, i get stronger and someday i will bench press 200kg like few that are lifting for 20 years can, or i will take steroids to go there faster. Then i'll win a metal and show it to others.

The second point is that everyday life can be used as meditation. To sit and meditate is not necessary after a point because you could do anything else and meditate. You could sit and meditate for enjoyment of course.

 

Ok i'm a bit curious about what you mean there is no now. Yes the thought of now is useless. The thought of there is no now is also useless. But it is now though. 

Edited June 27, 2022 by MazE

[fopylo]

@Phil

2 hours ago, Phil said:

Meditate for enlightenment

But you see? if I meditate for enlightenment, then I am meditating to achieve something - enlightenment (the idea of becoming enlightened).

2 hours ago, Phil said:

and it is the activity of thought which settles in meditation.

Isn't it the same as saying just to simply enjoy the activity you're doing, not anything special about meditation? When I go for a run and enjoy it, isn't that of the same purpose like of meditation? (sitting still and focusing on the breath). If I do daily exercise, listen to music I enjoy, meet friends I like to be with - then isn't that also kinda meditation? If I do those activities, being in the moment and enjoying, would I eventually come to those realizations?

Why is meditation superior/better, something highly suggested?

 

[MazE]

3 minutes ago, fopylo said:

@Phil

But you see? if I meditate for enlightenment, then I am meditating to achieve something - enlightenment (the idea of becoming enlightened).

Isn't it the same as saying just to simply enjoy the activity you're doing, not anything special about meditation? When I go for a run and enjoy it, isn't that of the same purpose like of meditation? (sitting still and focusing on the breath). If I do daily exercise, listen to music I enjoy, meet friends I like to be with - then isn't that also kinda meditation? If I do those activities, being in the moment and enjoying, would I eventually come to those realizations?

Why is meditation superior/better, something highly suggested?

 

Meditation is a learning tool. And necessary at first. Just not for ever. 

[Alexander]

It's life transforming long term habit.So much better then any non duality mental masturbation.

[fopylo]

This really reminds me of a quote I posted a while back on the Actualized.org forum:

 

"The right response is still the ticket to heaven, nirvana, or at least to a happy and secure life.

What a trap that can be! What at first seems to free participants ultimately binds them. Such approaches - releasing repressed areas of consciousness, positive thinking, transformational experiences, accepting things exactly the way they are, 'creative' problem solving, situational management, behavior modification, stress reduction, 'new' styles of thinking, and even certain forms of meditation - all attempt to teach people to respond to life or to the universe as if the circumstances were dominant.

After years of practicing these various disciplines, people often still have not learned to create what they most truly want. All they have learned are textbook responses that promise, but do not deliver, success or salvation.

This is because creating and responding are completely different species."

[Phil]

1 hour ago, MazE said:

By being i mean cessation. If there is now or not is not important. Having 25 awakenings and counting is not cessation either. The first point was that meditation is most often looked at like lifting weights. I sit, i lift, i get stronger and someday i will bench press 200kg like few that are lifting for 20 years can, or i will take steroids to go there faster. Then i'll win a metal and show it to others.

The second point is that everyday life can be used as meditation. To sit and meditate is not necessary after a point because you could do anything else and meditate. You could sit and meditate for enjoyment of course.

Indeed. Sorry, I forgot there’s a measuring contest message ‘out there’. Makes sense. 

1 hour ago, MazE said:

 

Ok i'm a bit curious about what you mean there is no now. Yes the thought of now is useless. The thought of there is no now is also useless. But it is now though. 

Sounds like we’re already on the same page with this too, as in there isn’t Ourself and a now. 

 

56 minutes ago, fopylo said:

@Phil

But you see? if I meditate for enlightenment, then I am meditating to achieve something - enlightenment (the idea of becoming enlightened).

Beliefs are like holding a ball in your hand so consistently that you are not noticing you’re holding a ball. Meditation, allowing the activity of thought to settle, is like letting go of the ball. If someone let go of a ball I don’t think you would consider that to be an achievement. That’s more so what I meant by meditate for enlightenment. Receiving vs getting somewhere, something, etc. It’s like listening vs talking. 

 

Also, if it’s clarifying… an idea is an idea. An idea is the activity of thought, so meditation is letting the idea fizzle out, vs becoming an idea. You’re already aware of the idea, and thus prior to ‘it’.

56 minutes ago, fopylo said:

Isn't it the same as saying just to simply enjoy the activity you're doing, not anything special about meditation? When I go for a run and enjoy it, isn't that of the same purpose like of meditation? (sitting still and focusing on the breath). If I do daily exercise, listen to music I enjoy, meet friends I like to be with - then isn't that also kinda meditation? If I do those activities, being in the moment and enjoying, would I eventually come to those realizations?

 

Why is meditation superior/better, something highly suggested?

I’m not saying meditation is superior or better or highly suggested. 

It is (essentially) allowing the activity of thought to settle, focusing on feeling breathing from the stomach. And is not an ‘attempt to teach people to respond to life or to the universe as if the circumstances were dominant. You can compare meditation to the other actives you mentioned and see the differences. Responding as if circumstances were dominant is the activity of thought, and is essentially the materialist paradigm, or, prior to adopting the practice. Learning to respond differently, btw, isn’t at all necessarily ‘as if circumstances were dominant’. The specifics listed in that quote are actually the opposite. 

 

[BlendingInfinite]

Doesn't matter if you meditate, if you have to do intellectual work it will somehow dissolve it because of the amount of thoughts going into it.

 

Therefore, you would have to just meditate for a few months, without doing anything other and then slowly inject intellectual work.

[fopylo]

@Phil

21 minutes ago, Phil said:

Beliefs are like holding a ball in your hand so consistently that you are not noticing you’re holding a ball. Meditation, allowing the activity of thought to settle, is like letting go of the ball. If someone let go of a ball I don’t think you would consider that to be an achievement. That’s more so what I meant by meditate for enlightenment. 

You say meditate for enlightenment and at the same time you say that meditation is the allowing of thought to settle. You see how traps can be created easily? I understand that when you say 'enlightenment' you point to the settlement of thought, the opposite of belief, but as a concept ('enlightenment'/'letting go') rather than what it points to - it can be really obscuring.

24 minutes ago, Phil said:

I’m not saying meditation is superior or better or highly suggested.

Then maybe you should clarify better what you're pointing to with the words 'meditation', 'enlightenment', 'allowing thought to settle' using other words than those. Pointing using different means/words can help better see. You obviously see that using the same words and repeating the same thing over and over isn't helping me see beyond those words (if you're gonna say now 'then do the practice and see for yourself', then it also isn't helpful because I don't know how to do the practice and I'm bound to fall into many traps).

33 minutes ago, Phil said:

You can compare meditation to the other actives you mentioned and see the differences.

Yes man, like many times, over and over, I decided to do meditation a few minutes ago. I just feel worse than before and I regret doing it. Confusion about what I am focusing on exactly started making me feel worse. I stopped in the middle and had enough of this shit already. I am also getting the vibe that meditation is to calm down (why the hell would I want to calm down, especially when I felt good when I was energetic?) Do you see the importance of using other means/pointers to explain other than saying the same stuff over and over? What, am I supposed to adapt to the same stuff you say over and over until my brain bleeds? Meditation seems so weak, and that people who do it believe it's something 'developing', 'respected'. Come on. This is nuts. I should really consider stopping meditation for good - seems like a very great way to increase suffering - goddamn sitting, not doing anything, and breathing like some kind of lazy plant, a vegetable

 

[Phil]

2 hours ago, fopylo said:

You say meditate for enlightenment and at the same time you say that meditation is the allowing of thought to settle.

You see how traps can be created easily? I understand that when you say 'enlightenment' you point to the settlement of thought, the opposite of belief, but as a concept ('enlightenment'/'letting go') rather than what it points to - it can be really obscuring.

Meditate for enlightenment and meditation is the allowing of thought to settle. 👍🏻

There’s no trap or contradiction there. 

2 hours ago, fopylo said:

Then maybe you should clarify better what you're pointing to with the words 'meditation', 'enlightenment', 'allowing thought to settle' using other words than those. Pointing using different means/words can help better see. You obviously see that using the same words and repeating the same thing over and over isn't helping me see beyond those words (if you're gonna say now 'then do the practice and see for yourself', then it also isn't helpful because I don't know how to do the practice and I'm bound to fall into many traps).

 

Yes man, like many times, over and over, I decided to do meditation a few minutes ago. I just feel worse than before and I regret doing it. Confusion about what I am focusing on exactly started making me feel worse. I stopped in the middle and had enough of this shit already. I am also getting the vibe that meditation is to calm down (why the hell would I want to calm down, especially when I felt good when I was energetic?) Do you see the importance of using other means/pointers to explain other than saying the same stuff over and over? What, am I supposed to adapt to the same stuff you say over and over until my brain bleeds? Meditation seems so weak, and that people who do it believe it's something 'developing', 'respected'. Come on. This is nuts. I should really consider stopping meditation for good - seems like a very great way to increase suffering - goddamn sitting, not doing anything, and breathing like some kind of lazy plant, a vegetable

 

With respect to meditation, the ‘how’ has nothing to do with it. Just notice attention is on thought (how), and gently return attention to feeling breathing in the stomach. If interested in meditation at all. Totally up to you. 

https://www.actualityofbeing.com/meditations

 

 

[MazE]

@fopylo you need to read new earth.

[Eothasian]

I meditate for inner peace