Self acceptance. God acceptance

[Godishere]

Hi everyone/Phil. I have come across from the other forum and been just incognito here for awhile.... I have a question for my Self Realized brothers/sisters. Did any of you who are "Self Realized" have a difficult time accepting things as they actually are after enlightenment? Reality is one, as you may have discovered and with that comes difficult truths that are quite frightening for me, almost impossible to accept. And of course I'm talking about the imaginary "separation".  Even now, it's like I'm searching for external advice but there is no such thing. "Hey God, how do I accept that I am God, God?

 

[Forza21]

 Hello  Godishere!
 

I was wondering if you would come here. I'm glad you did!

 

I couldn't replay you, on actualize, because i got banned.  🙂

As you might remember, I had a very, very difficult time and horror trip as well.  There are many topics about this issue and my experience here on forum, you might look for it and answers there. It really may help. 

Also, talking with people who have different perspective like @Phil @Indisguise @Faith @Blessed2 @Aware Wolf @Adeptus Psychonautica and more... 

Also, some inquire questions like:
 

-Where is that trip now? Can i see it without referring to the thought?

-How do i know what's the truth? Can i obtain it without referring to the thought?

-What so scary in that... without a thought about it?

-Do you really know what's the truth? If yes... isn't it just a thought? If no... what's the problem?

-How would you think about reality right now, if you never heard about Leo, and actualize?

in the end, it all boils down to thoughts and beliefs about reality, and thoughts in reference to the past.

Also, i don't want to make this another threat shitting on actualize, but leaving this forum, and looking for more source in Buddhism, Vedanta, here, Rupert Spira, Eckhart Tolle, Osho, David Hawkings, etc really, really helped me a loooooooooot. 

I still struggle sometimes, but it's much, much better.

Now i only listen to those, who resonates love.  🙂

 

Peace brother!

Edited June 8, 2022 by Forza21

[Phil]

@Godishere

Welcome!

11 hours ago, Godishere said:

Hi everyone/Phil. I have come across from the other forum and been just incognito here for awhile.... I have a question for my Self Realized brothers/sisters. Did any of you who are "Self Realized" have a difficult time accepting things as they actually are after enlightenment? Reality is one, as you may have discovered and with that comes difficult truths that are quite frightening for me, almost impossible to accept. And of course I'm talking about the imaginary "separation".  Even now, it's like I'm searching for external advice but there is no such thing. "Hey God, how do I accept that I am God, God?

 

This inquiry is reminiscent of and get’s right to the heart of why & when “Nahm” was asked to leave that forum via usage of separative verbiage like ‘we have a problem’, ‘your neo-advaita teachings are incompatible with my teachings’, etc, etc, which was in response to acknowledging rhetoric which supports the belief that there is a separate self which avoids the truth, which is akin to the belief there is a you and a God.

 

The confusion arises of thought attachment, denial of spiritual ego, and the unwillingness to inspect highly discordant solipsistic justifications, rationalizations and conceptualizations. This is not ‘seeing reality as it is’, but is purporting to ‘know the Truth’. “The mind can not be where it has not yet been”. When one speaks ahead of where one’s been, so to speak of course, rhetoric is created. Rhetoric supports ‘the knower’, ‘the understander’, and therein is not per se the Message, but is an overly ambitious personal ideology. There is not a separate self which avoids the truth, there is a vibrationally apparent experience of thoughts believed & a false identification therein, that there is a separate self which avoids a truth. Proper self-realization is not per se “oneness”, but is (best pointed to as) nonduality. If what’s being said here is in any way taken personally, what’s being said here is not actually yet being heard. 

 

Here, in regard to this forum, there is not denial of beliefs, justifications, rationalizations and conceptualizations, nor of the discord & alignment of that experience therein. This discord is (inevitably) acknowledged & seen as what suffering is, and suffering is not side lined in favor of egoic ambition by categorically classifying this as  “your serious emotional problems”, “you’re not conscious enough”, or “you’re just imagining that”, etc.  

 

Here, the discord & alignment are openly inspected and not shunned nor shamed via cunning & discordant deflection & projection. A clarifying distinction might be to refer to this as  ‘doing the work’ as compared to bypassing via succumbing to pressure applied to adhere to & support or ‘go along with’ conceptualizations which arise in the first place from the very suppression and stifling of the notion of actually addressing suffering.

 

Likewise, ‘reality is one’, or ‘oneness’, is not quite nonduality, or, not two. There is still, inspection wise, much ‘meat on the bone’ there. In the same fashion, there are not actually ‘difficult truths’ (a conceptual plurality of un-conceptualizableTruth), and a separate self the truth / truths are difficult for. There are vibrationally apparent discordant thoughts, and there is thought attachment, or the believing of self referential thoughts, and the discord is felt therein, which again, is what suffering is. When inspected rather than denied, belittled or “addressed” (obscured) with a mentality of exclusion in favor of concepts, bypassing & justifications of exclusion & elitism… there is quite soon no longer the experience of discord / suffering. As above so below - this transpires in the world so to speak, precisely as in does in the lens of. 

 

In seeing through the rhetoric, or seeing it for what it actually is, advice too is vibrationally apparent, and thus is not external. Likewise, there is the rhetoric of enlightenment as obtained, achieved, or as an attainment, in time. This is again ‘the mind can not be where it has not yet been’, or ‘infinite can not know finite’.  

 

In the overlooking of the inherent discord of this, uninspected thought attachment is weaved into a new identity, aka spiritual ego, and this reinforces the believing of thoughts such there there is a separate self which becomes or became enlightened, and thus there is the discord of thoughts of an after enlightenment for the ‘you’ which discovered ‘reality is one’. This again highlights the distinction of reality being one, or oneness, vs not two. Only upon that faulty “foundation”, can it then seem that ‘what follows’ are ‘difficult truths’. Another way to point is conceptualizing, beliving thoughts, isn’t ‘doing the work’, or, the inspection of and alignment of vibrationally apparent thoughts.  

 

Having said all that apparently, the ‘two cents’ or overall distinction of knowing the truth, and the believed “knower” therein, is what is uprooted via inspection of the discord & alignment experienced, if you will. 

[Mandy]

You can't become something that you are not already, there's no ideas or external truth that you must accept, there is only right now. Now is already accepted. We even judge this utter built in acceptance of the present as "mundane" or "boring" in an effort to resist it. 😆Thoughts occur now, feeling responds to the thought now, and tells us how we "Now/God" aligns with or agrees with that thought. Fear is the indicator that we are off track, we are imagining a future far different from what is in front of us. It might sound complicated but is so utterly simple and direct and immediate that it can't even be taught.

 

"Know what is in front of your face, and what is hidden from you will be disclosed to you."- Jesus 

In other words, only when we align with what's actual, what's in front of our face, what's here and present, do we SEE what is hidden. When we feel fear we imagine in the future and therefore HIDE from what is hidden. You can't get there from here. 

 

 

[Indisguise]

@Godishere Your question assumes a certain, specific conception of what "enlightenment" means. And that it's a binary thing. Why would enlightenment (whatever that means) be the end of not accepting - and futhermore, what does "non-accepting" even mean? These questions need to be answered first. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Phil said:

The confusion arises of thought attachment, denial of spiritual ego, and the unwillingness to inspect highly discordant solipsistic justifications, rationalizations and conceptualizations. This is not ‘seeing reality as it is’, but is purporting to ‘know the Truth’. “The mind can not be where it has not yet been”. When one speaks ahead of where one’s been, so to speak of course, rhetoric is created. Rhetoric supports ‘the knower’, ‘the understander’, and therein is not per se the Message, but is an overly ambitious personal ideology. There is not a separate self which avoids the truth, there is a vibrationally apparent experience of thoughts believed & a false identification therein, that there is a separate self which avoids a truth. Proper self-realization is not per se “oneness”, but is (best pointed to as) nonduality. If what’s being said here is in any way taken personally, what’s being said here is not actually yet being heard. 

 

Here, in regard to this forum, there is not denial of beliefs, justifications, rationalizations and conceptualizations, nor of the discord & alignment of that experience therein. This discord is (inevitably) acknowledged & seen as what suffering is, and suffering is not side lined in favor of egoic ambition by categorically classifying this as  “your serious emotional problems”, “you’re not conscious enough”, or “you’re just imagining that”, etc.  

 

Here, the discord & alignment are openly inspected and not shunned nor shamed via cunning & discordant deflection & projection. A clarifying distinction might be to refer to this as  ‘doing the work’ as compared to bypassing via succumbing to pressure applied to adhere to & support or ‘go along with’ conceptualizations which arise in the first place from the very suppression and stifling of the notion of actually addressing suffering.

 

Likewise, ‘reality is one’, or ‘oneness’, is not quite nonduality, or, not two. There is still, inspection wise, much ‘meat on the bone’ there. In the same fashion, there are not actually ‘difficult truths’ (a conceptual plurality of un-conceptualizableTruth), and a separate self the truth / truths are difficult for. There are vibrationally apparent discordant thoughts, and there is thought attachment, or the believing of self referential thoughts, and the discord is felt therein, which again, is what suffering is. When inspected rather than denied, belittled or “addressed” (obscured) with a mentality of exclusion in favor of concepts, bypassing & justifications of exclusion & elitism… there is quite soon no longer the experience of discord / suffering. As above so below - this transpires in the world so to speak, precisely as in does in the lens of. 

 

In seeing through the rhetoric, or seeing it for what it actually is, advice too is vibrationally apparent, and thus is not external. Likewise, there is the rhetoric of enlightenment as obtained, achieved, or as an attainment, in time. This is again ‘the mind can not be where it has not yet been’, or ‘infinite can not know finite’.  

 

In the overlooking of the inherent discord of this, uninspected thought attachment is weaved into a new identity, aka spiritual ego, and this reinforces the believing of thoughts such there there is a separate self which becomes or became enlightened, and thus there is the discord of thoughts of an after enlightenment for the ‘you’ which discovered ‘reality is one’. This again highlights the distinction of reality being one, or oneness, vs not two. Only upon that faulty “foundation”, can it then seem that ‘what follows’ are ‘difficult truths’. Another way to point is conceptualizing, beliving thoughts, isn’t ‘doing the work’, or, the inspection of and alignment of vibrationally apparent thoughts.  

 

@Phil Really nice. Funny, two years ago I would read your posts and be totally confused. Now I read this and it just goes down like oil.

 

[Dima]

19 hours ago, Godishere said:

Hi everyone/Phil. I have come across from the other forum and been just incognito here for awhile.... I have a question for my Self Realized brothers/sisters. Did any of you who are "Self Realized" have a difficult time accepting things as they actually are after enlightenment? Reality is one, as you may have discovered and with that comes difficult truths that are quite frightening for me, almost impossible to accept. And of course I'm talking about the imaginary "separation".  Even now, it's like I'm searching for external advice but there is no such thing. "Hey God, how do I accept that I am God, God?

 

Enlightenment is realisation that there is nothing to accept. You don't accept that you have your arms you just have it, it's yours, it's you 🙂 meditation, psychedelics, dreamboard to the rescue 🙏

[Silver]

@Godisherein short: infinity. that is enlightenment. when you realize that you are infinite, there is no loneliness because you are infinite. you are one and multiple at the same time. you are one because there can be nothing outside of you, you are multiple because you are everything that can be. when you perceive the infinity of everything, loneliness disappears. any solipistic feeling is ego. any feeling of isolation is ego. reality is freedom without limits

[Godishere]

Thanks everyone and @Phil, I read your reply back about three times and I think I got to the bottom of what you're saying, please correct me if I'm wrong. So any thought or appearance that arises is by definition 'not the truth' or finite. Spiritual ego is created when believing any thought about reality or appearance within reality and claiming to "know the truth". Infinity by nature cannot be known as this by definition implies separateness from what is known. A known and knower(two). So any discordant thoughts about "I'm the only one" or "I am God" is the ego/knower/separate self who is believing thoughts about what is unknowable. There is only appearances within what is infinite. Or we could say no matter what appears IS the truth, there is no separation. Only in believing thoughts/appearances that this is me and that/I am separate from everything.

 

In summary, in reality there is only this/now and what appears in the now. Thoughts/emotions are all appearances that are just happening but when they are believed to be 'true' and happening to a separate 'me' which is separate from what is appearing, the suffering is felt. The one that claims to "know the truth" is the ego which doesn't actually exist because there is no separation. Am I confused or along the right tracks here?

 

 

[Phil]

@Godishere

Right & wrong are thoughts.

22 hours ago, Godishere said:

Hi everyone/Phil. I have come across from the other forum and been just incognito here for awhile.... I have a question for my Self Realized brothers/sisters.

Image of someone in a tattered thawb wearing a shemagh & holding a staff, having just crossed a vast desert comes to mind. 

22 hours ago, Godishere said:

Did any of you who are "Self Realized" have a difficult time accepting things as they actually are after enlightenment?

Why is that thought discordant?  What about it feels off?                     What things? 

22 hours ago, Godishere said:

Reality is one, as you may have discovered and with that comes difficult truths that are quite frightening for me, almost impossible to accept.

What are the difficult truths and why are those thoughts discordant?

Are the thoughts true about you? 

22 hours ago, Godishere said:

And of course I'm talking about the imaginary "separation".  Even now, it's like I'm searching for external advice but there is no such thing. "Hey God, how do I accept that I am God, God?

 What kind of advice? For what specifically? 

What about self acceptance / God acceptance arises as what needs to be accepted? 

 

[Phil]

2 hours ago, Godishere said:

Thanks everyone and @Phil, I read your reply back about three times and I think I got to the bottom of what you're saying, please correct me if I'm wrong. So any thought or appearance that arises is by definition 'not the truth' or finite. Spiritual ego is created when believing any thought about reality or appearance within reality and claiming to "know the truth". Infinity by nature cannot be known as this by definition implies separateness from what is known. A known and knower(two). So any discordant thoughts about "I'm the only one" or "I am God" is the ego/knower/separate self who is believing thoughts about what is unknowable. There is only appearances within what is infinite. Or we could say no matter what appears IS the truth, there is no separation. Only in believing thoughts/appearances that this is me and that/I am separate from everything.

 

In summary, in reality there is only this/now and what appears in the now. Thoughts/emotions are all appearances that are just happening but when they are believed to be 'true' and happening to a separate 'me' which is separate from what is appearing, the suffering is felt. The one that claims to "know the truth" is the ego which doesn't actually exist because there is no separation. Am I confused or along the right tracks here?

 

 

Does someone become enlightened?

[Phil]

On 6/7/2022 at 11:09 PM, Godishere said:

And of course I'm talking about the imaginary "separation".  Even now, it's like I'm searching for external advice but there is no such thing. "Hey God, how do I accept that I am God, God?

Separation isn’t imaginary. Or at the very least, that framing ain’t workin for you. Separation being imaginary is still saying there is separation, but it’s just “imagined”. That’s horseshit which obscures thought attachment which perpetuates and does not resolve, suffering. It’s indicative of a mind lost in it’s own mind games. It’s misperception. It’s armor. There is no ‘work’ being done there. 

The evidence is that it’s immediately followed by boxing out help (advice) by holding it to be “external”. Not a health & well being conducive orientation, at all. 

You’ve got to cut through your shit here and the simplest way to do it is to acknowledge it always was and still is, someone else’s shit. It’s not even your shit. 

Stop boxing out what you need to heal. 

 

Yes I’m overbearing. Sorry not sorry. 

🤍

 

[nurthur11]

On 6/8/2022 at 3:19 PM, Mandy said:

You can't become something that you are not already, there's no ideas or external truth that you must accept, there is only right now. Now is already accepted. We even judge this utter built in acceptance of the present as "mundane" or "boring" in an effort to resist it. 😆Thoughts occur now, feeling responds to the thought now, and tells us how we "Now/God" aligns with or agrees with that thought. Fear is the indicator that we are off track, we are imagining a future far different from what is in front of us. It might sound complicated but is so utterly simple and direct and immediate that it can't even be taught.

 

"Know what is in front of your face, and what is hidden from you will be disclosed to you."- Jesus 

In other words, only when we align with what's actual, what's in front of our face, what's here and present, do we SEE what is hidden. When we feel fear we imagine in the future and therefore HIDE from what is hidden. You can't get there from here. 

 

 

Yeah i agree. But just to understand - you feel you are the body, the thoughts, might also have the feeling of attention around your stomach, and the life is perceived  very simply and ordinary right? 
 

If you approach to speak to someone there is no fear or any perceived things that can make you afraid? 

[Phil]

@Godishere

Maybe an example would be more helpful… 

Scientology is based on ‘getting clear’ via purchasing their program. Given that you are what clarity is, if David Miscavige changed Scientology, and instructed staff to simple tell the truth… what problem might David encounter?

[Godishere]

13 hours ago, Phil said:

@Godishere

Maybe an example would be more helpful… 

Scientology is based on ‘getting clear’ via purchasing their program. Given that you are what clarity is, if David Miscavige changed Scientology, and instructed staff to simple tell the truth… what problem might David encounter?

Thanks Phil, sorry I haven't gotten around to replying. I've just been mulling over what you've said these last few days. Obviously I've gone off track somewhere and it does make sense to me where I've mislead myself with spiritual ego, so to speak. Just to clarify, the one who claims to 'know the truth' is by definition the separate self? So literally everything including thoughts about what is occuring and has occurred are appearances which should be let go of? 

 

And I presume you mean by your scientology example, that what is appearing is already perfect, so someone claiming to "teach" has nothing to give you which you aren't already being? 

Edited June 15, 2022 by Godishere

[Phil]

2 hours ago, Godishere said:

Just to clarify, the one who claims to 'know the truth' is by definition the separate self?

Reality is one, as you may have discovered and with that comes difficult truths that are quite frightening for me, almost impossible to accept

So literally everything including thoughts about what is occuring and has occurred are appearances which should be let go of? 

The truth isn’t frightening for a me. There isn’t the truth and a me. There is / are interpretations which are discordant, which can be expressed and inspected, and therein the discord / suffering is dispelled, illuminated, seen through. Believing what you’re told is believing what someone else thinks and can become your discordant thoughts from believing what you’re told… and this is not the same as expressing & inspecting the discordant thoughts / beliefs. It’s kinda the opposite. Giving you confusion, and selling you the clarity... when you are clarity all along.  It’s not about “by definition” or “should or shouldn’t”, but expression & inspection of the discord / suffering, and therein, alignment. (Of thought with feeling). 

 

2 hours ago, Godishere said:

And I presume you mean by your scientology example, that what is appearing is already perfect, so someone claiming to "teach" has nothing to give you which you aren't already being? 

What are they interested in you giving, to them?

[Phil]

@Godishere

It might be kind of simple, like, I already know the truth, so I don’t meditate, use the emotional scale each day, use an expression journal each day… and suffering kinda be like uhhh ya, ok. 

[Links]

On 6/8/2022 at 4:09 AM, Godishere said:

Did any of you who are "Self Realized" have a difficult time accepting things as they actually are after enlightenment?

 

I don't have any grand titles for myself or anyone else like 'self realised' or 'enlightened'  or even 'God' lol, those are just thoughts, stories. But life became easier when I realised the paradox, that when I try to accept things as they are, I am making an effort to change (ie not accept) the part of me which is resisting. If non-acceptance is present, then that too is just what's happening. That's the actuality.  So now I don't try to accept the situation, but I allow the difficulties to express themselves too. They pass away and contentment returns, but I must still have work to do, because although suffering is impermanent, yet it recurs in patterns. My anxiety for example, is triggered again by my conditioning responding to an external situation. It's just how things are. 

Edited June 16, 2022 by Links

[Baller]

Yeah, the whole "I am God" thing is very much a Leoism, i.e. an artifact of psychic inflation.

 

The thought "I" ceases to exist internally at some point (although one still obviously uses it in conversation, but it is understood to be a social construct, not an existential reality.  You understand it as just a social avatar.)

 

I know I used to be able to think "I" and it used to mean something but now when I consciously try to think "I" all that triggers is the experience that there's only one field of awareness permeating everything, or however you want to call it. 

 

There is ONLY GOD if you prefer -- not I AM GOD.

[Alexander]

11 hours ago, Baller said:

Yeah, the whole "I am God" thing is very much a Leoism, i.e. an artifact of psychic inflation.

 

The thought "I" ceases to exist internally at some point (although one still obviously uses it in conversation, but it is understood to be a social construct, not an existential reality.  You understand it as just a social avatar.)

 

I know I used to be able to think "I" and it used to mean something but now when I consciously try to think "I" all that triggers is the experience that there's only one field of awareness permeating everything, or however you want to call it. 

 

There is ONLY GOD if you prefer -- not I AM GOD.

I agree that claiming that you are God will quickly get you to the psych ward.It is the same ego that flaunts nothing changed.

Edited June 17, 2022 by Alexander