The way we speak

[Mandy]

Anyone else become aware, (especially while journaling) that they often say "I feel" when what we really mean is "I think", or therefore "judge this to be"?

 

I also love etymology for this reason, as I find that it reveals or pulls the rug out from under a lot of separate self imposed connotations that we give to words. 

 

Have you noticed other patterns in speech that we could align or use to become aware of our Selves? 

[Orb]

One thing I've always hated is when people say "you NEED to do..... or I NEED to ...."

 

Ever since I was a teen this phrasing always annoyed me, like we don't have to do anything, stop being a puppet on strings! 😤

[Mandy]

@Orb Yes!!! Also the shoulding all over ourselves. 

[Orb]

@Mandy Basically, any way of speaking that sounds reactive. 

 

If your speech sounds reactive rather than proactive, youre framing yourself as a puppet being pulled to do things. Feels disempowering.

[Indisguise]

13 hours ago, Mandy said:

Anyone else become aware, (especially while journaling) that they often say "I feel" when what we really mean is "I think", or therefore "judge this to be"?

Yes!! Not only that, but also vice versa! Feeling something, but saying "I think". Haven't noticed this while journaling, but in general I've noticed this with myself and other people, started to use the words "feeling" and "thinking" more consciously while talking.

On top of that, I have the suspicion that the language itself influences the way we relate to thoughts and feelings. Saying "I feel like..." as more or less synonymous with "I think" would work to some extent in English, but it wouldn't in German . "Ich fühle" would really emphasize the feeling of it, the subjectivity,  (I don't know why this is) and people might even notice it and think that it's inappropriate to use the word "feeling", because we all know of course how unreliable feeling is.👍🏼

[Mandy]

@Indisguise Ha, hadn't thought of it in the opposite, love it! It must be fascinating to be fluent in two languages and to see the differences. 

[Indisguise]

To be fair, feeling really is all there is. And what are thoughts? Who knows, but you can feel it😄 can't really make a difference between thought and feeling if the difference is thought😂

[fopylo]

@Mandy

On 6/1/2022 at 6:30 PM, Mandy said:

Anyone else become aware, (especially while journaling) that they often say "I feel" when what we really mean is "I think", or therefore "judge this to be"?

 

I also love etymology for this reason, as I find that it reveals or pulls the rug out from under a lot of separate self imposed connotations that we give to words. 

 

Have you noticed other patterns in speech that we could align or use to become aware of our Selves? 

Yeah, I tend to prefer using "I feel" instead of "I think" because it feels better and enables me to express better what I actually have to express, not thinking about it too much. Eventually it's about the thoughts and feeling 'behind' the words. I can even have a thought about a beautiful rainbow I saw but decide to write "the cat was stretching", with intention to express the rainbow, perhaps easier that way and for some reason activates this thought more powerfully than "a beautiful rainbow". As I assume, you don't talk to your friends and family in this Neo-Advaita spiritual creator-creating creation God language, but rather plain simple conversational every day language

[fopylo]

@Indisguise

7 hours ago, Indisguise said:

And what are thoughts? Who knows, but you can feel it😄

Do you mean in the same sense as feeling a sensation in the body?

7 hours ago, Indisguise said:

can't really make a difference between thought and feeling if the difference is thought😂

I think you mean (gonna use pointers) 'feeling' (the thought of it) and 'thought' (the thought of it) are both thoughts, but in actuality there is a difference between Feeling and Thought (the actuality they both are, prior to conceptualizing), am I right?

 

[Mandy]

15 hours ago, fopylo said:

@Mandy

Yeah, I tend to prefer using "I feel" instead of "I think" because it feels better and enables me to express better what I actually have to express, not thinking about it too much. Eventually it's about the thoughts and feeling 'behind' the words. I can even have a thought about a beautiful rainbow I saw but decide to write "the cat was stretching", with intention to express the rainbow, perhaps easier that way and for some reason activates this thought more powerfully than "a beautiful rainbow". As I assume, you don't talk to your friends and family in this Neo-Advaita spiritual creator-creating creation God language, but rather plain simple conversational every day language

The intent isn't to try to end up sounding like some god or super enlightened person or something, but to see where we are fooling ourselves/holding discordant thoughts and beliefs and let go of them. It's done for oneself, while journaling or just gearing up to notice it while speaking. For example if I say or write that "I feel bad that I forgot to buy bread at the supermarket", the "I feel bad" is really a clue or guidance to note feeling itself, and look at my thoughts, and notice that my focus is not where I want it to be. Instead I'm ignoring feeling and believing thoughts about a separate self and lack, what an idiot I am and how screwed we will be without bread that week, etc. Yet, I might tell my mom "I feel bad that...".  Couldn't I more clearly communicate "Hi Mom, I forgot to get bread at the supermarket, can you grab me a loaf when you go in this weekend?" No manipulation, no BS, no wasted time, no suffering. 

Alignment is a very cool thing. I mean yes, ultimately we want to align our speech with this understanding, not at the expense of understanding but FOR true understanding and clarity of communication. Do you believe that people generally communicate clearly with one another now? Do we really listen when we ourselves and others speak? 

 

[Lotus]

On 6/1/2022 at 5:30 PM, Mandy said:

Have you noticed other patterns in speech that we could align or use to become aware of our Selves? 

I'm becoming increasingly aware of how I speak, rather than what I say. This is somewhat connected to intentful speaking; not letting the words count, but the intent behind them.

 

If we expand the definition of speech to laughing, I've noticed that I sometimes use laughing as a reassurance gesture. Not because I find it funny, but because laughing calms me. Per se, there's nothing wrong with laughing, but I found that the laughs can sometimes be more of unconscious nature/ a learned pattern to calm innocently calm yourself, as if you wanna bury something discordant with that laugh. I think laughing is easy to inspect.. either your laugh is genuine or not genuine; the difference is pretty easy to notice, feeling wise. So.. either there is something to inspect behind that laugh, or you just have a good time.

 

I've also noticed that I'm cursing a lot.. which I want to down regulate a bit. Not because there's ill intent behind it, but because it's simply a learned pattern which could be more aligned.

[Lotus]

2 hours ago, Mandy said:

The intent isn't to try to end up sounding like some god or super enlightened person or something, but to see where we are fooling ourselves/holding discordant thoughts and beliefs and let go of them.

Funny enough, I started to curse more once I noticed that I tried to 'sound enlightened' in my 'spiritual phase'. To not become that annoying spiritual dude, I steered completely in the opposite direction, which only hardened the spiritual ego. I'm slowly becoming more comfortable with both extremes, not really caring whether I sound spiritual or vulgar. I think that's a good sign. And it feels good to go beyond the content of words. 

Edited June 3, 2022 by Lotus

[nurthur11]

11 hours ago, Mandy said:

The intent isn't to try to end up sounding like some god or super enlightened person or something, but to see where we are fooling ourselves/holding discordant thoughts and beliefs and let go of them. It's done for oneself, while journaling or just gearing up to notice it while speaking. For example if I say or write that "I feel bad that I forgot to buy bread at the supermarket", the "I feel bad" is really a clue or guidance to note feeling itself, and look at my thoughts, and notice that my focus is not where I want it to be. Instead I'm ignoring feeling and believing thoughts about a separate self and lack, what an idiot I am and how screwed we will be without bread that week, etc. Yet, I might tell my mom "I feel bad that...".  Couldn't I more clearly communicate "Hi Mom, I forgot to get bread at the supermarket, can you grab me a loaf when you go in this weekend?" No manipulation, no BS, no wasted time, no suffering. 

Alignment is a very cool thing. I mean yes, ultimately we want to align our speech with this understanding, not at the expense of understanding but FOR true understanding and clarity of communication. Do you believe that people generally communicate clearly with one another now? Do we really listen when we ourselves and others speak? 

 

I am convinced that I could communicate the same thing to my mother without aligning speech or thought. Sorry to speak in your place but I think you could too. 
 

I recently, believe that our nature reveal itself. This is like the Rumi quote you mentioned in your last video. If i let go of the seeking then it is already seeking me, I get the feeling that my individual trait are expressed. I might feel very good in myself but not necessary speak correctly or vice versa. 
 

This doesn't invalidate your topic in any way. You can still find legit words that align with the experience of yourself(Selves). I just believe words do not play a big part on reducing my suffering. 

Edited June 4, 2022 by nurthur11

[Loop]

I feel what I think is nothing,

I think what I feel is endless distinction.

 

Switching between approaching from thinking & approaching from feeling. Thinking gets titrated into feeling, visualizing to connect to now. Feeling Is. Thinking is riding on the Elephant, feeling is It. Disassociation, & re-association, expanding, contracting. 

 

I like to use them interchangeably, more so as a pointing to re-associating thinking with feeling, channeling, & re-associating feeling with thinking, noticing.
 

Roots dig deep grounded in the soil,

The trunk raises high into the sky,

Light is absorb from the sun,

Water came from the clouds,

Channeled down,

It grew, 

From just one seed.
 

Great topic 👍