Blessed2 Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 (edited) When I focus attention on breathing from the stomach, thoughts do not settle. Like literally, put attention on the sensation of breathing right now. Thoughts do not settle. It seems that thoughts are simultaneously arising as attention is on breathing. How is that possible? How could meditation then settle the activity of thought at all if it doesn't now? How come I can't be mindful of just one breath, and all thought go silent forever? Yes, yes these are thoughts. Yet attention is on the sensation of breathing right now and thoughts are arising. Direct experience. Edited June 2 by Blessed2 Quote Mention There must be an effortless way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted June 2 Author Share Posted June 2 How to not think about a pink elephant? Quote Mention There must be an effortless way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 18 minutes ago, Blessed2 said: How to not think about a pink elephant? Think of a blue one instead Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 Think of what's wanted. If that is unreachable, then you don't have to think. If that is unreachable then write the thought out, or speak it out loud. How many times have you heard Abraham repeating "I can't stop thinking about that thing I can't stop thinking about." It's not that the thought has any power. If you keep thinking the word fork suddenly it loses all meaning and seems like some foreign thing you've never heard of. Turn it into a mantra. You can't lose or win. Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 It's fun to go for long runs as creative brainstorming times and try to force yourself to think. Rebellion is like shooting fish in a barrel. 😂 Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reena Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 It's ok to have thoughts while meditation. You can bring yourself back to your sensations of being in awareness. Quote Mention So basically I'm an autistic INFJ BPD sigma Pisces female with anger and CPTSD issues. Wow wow. My plate looks full. I Couldn't have been weirder than that. Now I get why I'm so idiosyncratic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 What is meant by ‘work’ in ‘meditation doesn’t work’? Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 7 hours ago, Mandy said: If that is unreachable then write the thought out, or speak it out loud. And if that's unreachable....? Quote Mention There must be an effortless way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 4 hours ago, Phil said: What is meant by ‘work’ in ‘meditation doesn’t work’? Thoughts to not settle. Quote Mention There must be an effortless way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 (edited) 2 hours ago, Blessed2 said: Thoughts to not settle. There’s nowhere for thoughts to land. Nothing is making thoughts appear, and nothing is stopping them from appearing. The knowledge that “I am meditating” is a thought appearing on the projection screen of mind. Not settling is just more thought. A still mind is like a still wind. Mediation, is when you know you are most alive, it can be likened to resting light, a kind of death while alive at the same time. In mediation is seems both death and birth are the same thing, just differing in appearance, that’s all. Meditation, it’s like light watching itself effortlessly doing nothing, like observing that there is nothing making thoughts appear, nor is there nothing making them disappear. No further work is required during this effortless recognition that the (I thought) is nought but an apparent redundant entity. Edited June 3 by Jane Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 @Blessed2 https://www.actualityofbeing.com/awareness-of-thoughts Try this. Generally speaking… If they’re specific ‘sticky’ reoccurring thoughts, express em. Look to acknowledge the emotion related, spot any self referential loops, and receive the guidance / allow the interpretation to change. Thoughts arising during meditation is ok. Be aware of any expectations or goal of stopping thoughts, and write / express the why of the desire to stop thoughts. ‘Warm up’ / get more comfortable with meditation by feeling breathing in the stomach anytime through out the day, outside of a formal seated practice time. Consider starting with shorter periods of seated practice and increasing daily or over days. Try out any guided meditations that resonate. Put the emphasis on consistency. Whenever this ‘issue’ / topic comes to mind, allow appreciation for momentum with respect to the practice. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 3 hours ago, Jane said: There’s nowhere for thoughts to land. Nothing is making thoughts appear, and nothing is stopping them from appearing. The knowledge that “I am meditating” is a thought appearing on the projection screen of mind. Not settling is just more thought. A still mind is like a still wind. Mediation, is when you know you are most alive, it can be likened to resting light, a kind of death while alive at the same time. In mediation is seems both death and birth are the same thing, just differing in appearance, that’s all. Meditation, it’s like light watching itself effortlessly doing nothing, like observing that there is nothing making thoughts appear, nor is there nothing making them disappear. No further work is required during this effortless recognition that the (I thought) is nought but an apparent redundant entity. I appreciate the response, but thoughts are still appearing and unwanted emotions are still occuring, and wanted emotions are not occuring. Quote Mention There must be an effortless way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Another ‘approach’… set a timer on your phone to go off through out the day for say, 3 days, and reaffirm an affirmation like this about the the true nature of emotions. Then start meditation on the fourth day, with just five minutes. "I am the playful and ever-present Source, joyfully embracing every thought and emotion as part of my perfect, unfolding co-creative dream." Thoughts might come up about how that doesn’t make sense, how it’s not gonna work or workout etc. Being aware of these thoughts is ample… and the affirmation could be re-affirmed. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 16 minutes ago, Phil said: If they’re specific ‘sticky’ reoccurring thoughts, express em. Look to acknowledge the emotion related, spot any self referential loops, and receive the guidance / allow the interpretation to change. "I might have another psychotic episode soon. I am not safe." This thought feels like the emotions fear, despair and powerlessness. "I do not want to go for the planned vacation abroad with my friends in two weeks, because I would not feel safe there. But at the same time, I don't want to cancel the plans because I would cause a disappointment to my friends." This thought feels like the emotions powerlessness, guilt, insecurity and worry. "I don't think that this expression or acknowledgement of emotions will work. The more I try to make it work, the worse I feel. Of course it's not going to work. I am stuck feeling bad and there is nothing I can do to make it stop." This thought feels like the emotions powerlessness, despair and fear. Anything you would add? 28 minutes ago, Phil said: and write / express the why of the desire to stop thoughts. Very simply to experience the emotions from contentment to joy, and not experience the emotions from fear to pessimism. Enjoyment and relaxation. 29 minutes ago, Phil said: ‘Warm up’ / get more comfortable with meditation by feeling breathing in the stomach anytime through out the day, outside of a formal seated practice time. Consider starting with shorter periods of seated practice and increasing daily or over days. Try out any guided meditations that resonate. Put the emphasis on consistency. Whenever this ‘issue’ / topic comes to mind, allow appreciation for momentum with respect to the practice. Okay, will do. Thanks. Though still wondering why one mindful breath isn't enough. How come it takes years? Yes, this is a thought. But literally in direct experience, one mindful breath is not enough. Quote Mention There must be an effortless way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 36 minutes ago, Blessed2 said: I appreciate the response Ok, no problem 😉 Be as you are. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 27 minutes ago, Blessed2 said: "I might have another psychotic episode soon. I am not safe." This thought feels like the emotions fear, despair and powerlessness. A psychotic episode is typically conceptualized as a state, characterized by a disconnection from reality, often involving hallucinations or delusions. The term "psychotic episode" can be ‘seen’ as a label applied to certain behaviors and experiences that deviate from socially accepted norms. This labeling turns a fluid, subjective experience into a fixed concept, potentially reinforcing the belief in a separate self experiencing unwanted phenomena(thought & emotions). The core issue lies in the belief that certain emotions are not guidance for what’s wanted, but are negative or unwanted. This belief naturally feels resistant given the guidance is about - what’s wanted, and can perpetuate a self ref loop of avoidance and fear. Emotions are natural, not good or bad, and not things which could truly be wanted or unwanted. Wanted & unwanted applies to ‘the things’, experiences, etc, not emotions. More paramount than ‘the things’ - emotions serve as guidance, indicating alignment or misalignment with one's true nature. Recognizing emotions as co-creative elements of existence helps shift the perspective from viewing them as obstacles to seeing them as integral to the unfolding experience. In the vein of transforming resistance into alignment, question if perfection is really what’s wanted, and question any limiting beliefs suggesting the perfection sought is ‘a thing’ or ‘things’… something or anything - other than the very emotional guidance deemed to be unwanted. Affirmations are truly, truly powerful. (Alignment is paramount). "I am the playful and ever-present Source, joyfully embracing every thought and emotion as part of my perfect, unfolding co-creative dream." It’s less about ‘having another episode’, and more about peeling away the conceptualization of ‘psychotic episode’. Feel the relief and presence in… It happened to me. It happened. It’s not happening. The direct, present experience is of the thought, not what the thought is about. Thus, alignment (presently) & direct experience is ‘king’. 27 minutes ago, Blessed2 said: "I do not want to go for the planned vacation abroad with my friends in two weeks, because I would not feel safe there. But at the same time, I don't want to cancel the plans because I would cause a disappointment to my friends." Notice the deflection & projection of disappointment (‘onto others’), allowing the dots to connect, that disappointment is presently & directly felt, and is guidance for the interpretation. Note that the friends to which it seems the emotion pertains, are not present or directly experienced (the interpretation / conceptualization of the emotion is presently directly experienced and felt). 27 minutes ago, Blessed2 said: This thought feels like the emotions powerlessness, guilt, insecurity and worry. "I don't think that this expression or acknowledgement of emotions will work. The more I try to make it work, the worse I feel. Of course it's not going to work. I am stuck feeling bad and there is nothing I can do to make it stop." Note the sep self / pessimism belief loop. 27 minutes ago, Blessed2 said: This thought feels like the emotions powerlessness, despair and fear. Anything you would add? Very simply to experience the emotions from contentment to joy, and not experience the emotions from fear to pessimism. Enjoyment and relaxation. The key is allowing interpretations to change. 27 minutes ago, Blessed2 said: Okay, will do. Thanks. Though still wondering why one mindful breath isn't enough. How come it takes years? Years is a thought, time is conceptual, as is enough & isn’t enough (limitation, lack, shortage). That some thoughts, beliefs & interpretations feel off is the evidence of the true unconditional infinite nature. 27 minutes ago, Blessed2 said: Yes, this is a thought. But literally in direct experience, one mindful breath is not enough. While it could be a tremendous, tremendous blow to ‘the ego’ or ‘sep self’, which doesn’t actually exist - lack is a (discordant) belief. Listen to the feeling, not the beliefs / concept / ‘ego’. All of this seems to culminate in a conclusion, that meditation doesn’t work - only in accordance with, thought. Rather than questioning why meditation doesn’t work, question the validity of the belief about meditation, adopt the practice daily (multiple times a day is ‘better’), and find out ‘for yourself’ if that conclusion was true. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Maynor Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 (edited) I do Do Nothing Meditation and it works. All I do is lay down for like 2 hours and don't try to do anything. I don't even try to watch (mindfulness is a kind of controlling unless it's not). And somehow this has been highly effective in my life and spirituality. I don't know why and I don't think I need to know why. But I know the results. Trying to be mindful screws this up. You need to just let things be. That's it. It's do nothing which means don't try to do nothing too! It's tricky because we tend to think we need to do something in meditation and this goes against that (without going against that or anything too). Just relax (but don't cling to relaxing) and let whatever happens happen -- without trying to do this. It's a letting go without letting go. Even mindfulness is a kind of controlling. Detaching and renunciation can be a kind of controlling too. So, Do Nothing Meditation sounds easy but there's actually quite a few traps to being able to "do" it. Edited June 4 by Joseph Maynor Quote Mention 💬 🗯️🤍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Pessimism is arguably the greatest emotional guidance as it illuminates not only the falsity of the knower, but also inherently emphasizes ‘things’ will go far greater than one thinks or even could think. Pessimism is also the greatest emotional threshold as it’s just prior to boredom, which isn’t contentment, passion or empowerment, but is significantly more resonating than any emotion ‘below’ pessimism. It’s like peace whereas there once was conflict, yet isn’t quite yet ‘true’ as in loving. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 12 minutes ago, Phil said: Pessimism is also the greatest emotional threshold as it’s just prior to boredom, which isn’t contentment, passion or empowerment, but is significantly more resonating than any emotion ‘below’ pessimism. It’s like peace whereas there once was conflict, yet isn’t quite yet ‘true’ as in loving. This distinction between what pessimism vs. boredom feels like is recognized. Yeah I'm experiencing the emotion pessimism. Now seeing a bit clearer how I've been kind of swimming in that pool for a long time. Though I don't see how to get out from there. It's like I'm stuck. Like experiencing boredom would be impossible. Quote Mention There must be an effortless way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 @Blessed2 Just download a Jane Austen book. Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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