Spiral dynamics and judgment

[Rose]

It is probably due to the damage of actualized.org as well, but for many years I’ve been using spiral dynamics to judge people - my stage blue family.. my stage orange coworkers, my stage green feminist/activist friend who seems to only be that way because it’s convenient for her.. bla bla bla  

 

Then I realized how deep in my own nonsense I was.. how is it that I must seem to people who are not as deep in their nonsense anymore.. I realized that I was acting like someone who is making 100K looking down at people who are making 50K - when there are people making 10M and not looking down at anyone.. 

 

While I still think it is useful to get a feel of where the person I am conversing with is at.. instead of judging them.. I choose accepting them to be perfect just the way they are.. and focusing on my own mission.. judgment takes so much processing power from me.. it’s such a waste of energy..

 

I still wouldn’t date someone who is in “lower stages” because I do want my close relationship to be more effortless, not having to explain myself 

 

I have been observing that the more tolerant I am to “lower stages” of consciousness, the more responsive people are to me. The more people feel you are on “their side” and they are accepted by you, the more open they are to changes.. Ego doesn’t want to feel there is anything wrong with it, and it will defend itself whenever you imply anything of that sort. Once it begins defending itself, it diminishes whatever msg being thrown at it, often even demonizing the msg and the messenger as well.
 

It is important to be able to tune in to the feelings the person is having.. to see what it is like to be that person.. that is where the spiral dynamics may help.. to see the world from their eyes and build your msg in a way that would make sense in that world or plant a seed for a different world.. Asking questions helps here as well, to be able to feel and understand their world better.. This is crazy because it also kind of tunes in into “we are one realization” - you have to look inside yourself to find that person you are talking to.. 

 

The problem is that if you do not know yourself.. you will not be able to tune into another person.. because every interaction you will use to try to find yourself.. instead of trying to understand them, you will try to explain yourself, to make sense of your own worldview and to defend it to yourself through the conversion with the other.. if you have a clear vision for yourself you can hear the other.. for me it’s now my freedom, from myself and joy

 

What is interesting is that learning about personality types and even birth charts helped me to become less judgmental as well.. because I realized that people are fundamentally very different and with very different needs.. different is not “bad” or “good” it’s just how it is.. Also there are so many combinations of different qualities + upbringing + values people can have, it’s a waste to try and pigeonhole it.. It’s funny because I was obsessing with personality types for so many years it was getting weird at some point, but now I see why I was doing it..

 

What are your thoughts on spiral dynamics? 

 

Edited April 13 by Rose

[James123]

On 4/13/2024 at 8:11 PM, Rose said:

It is probably due to the damage of actualized.org as well, but for many years I’ve been using spiral dynamics to judge people - my stage blue family.. my stage orange coworkers, my stage green feminist/activist friend who seems to only be that way because it’s convenient for her.. bla bla bla  

 

Then I realized how deep in my own nonsense I was.. how is it that I must seem to people who are not as deep in their nonsense anymore.. I realized that I was acting like someone who is making 100K looking down at people who are making 50K - when there are people making 10M and not looking down at anyone.. 

 

While I still think it is useful to get a feel of where the person I am conversing with is at.. instead of judging them.. I choose accepting them to be perfect just the way they are.. and focusing on my own mission.. judgment takes so much processing power from me.. it’s such a waste of energy..

 

I still wouldn’t date someone who is in “lower stages” because I do want my close relationship to be more effortless, not having to explain myself 

 

I have been observing that the more tolerant I am to “lower stages” of consciousness, the more responsive people are to me. The more people feel you are on “their side” and they are accepted by you, the more open they are to changes.. Ego doesn’t want to feel there is anything wrong with it, and it will defend itself whenever you imply anything of that sort. Once it begins defending itself, it diminishes whatever msg being thrown at it, often even demonizing the msg and the messenger as well.
 

It is important to be able to tune in to the feelings the person is having.. to see what it is like to be that person.. that is where the spiral dynamics may help.. to see the world from their eyes and build your msg in a way that would make sense in that world or plant a seed for a different world.. Asking questions helps here as well, to be able to feel and understand their world better.. This is crazy because it also kind of tunes in into “we are one realization” - you have to look inside yourself to find that person you are talking to.. 

 

The problem is that if you do not know yourself.. you will not be able to tune into another person.. because every interaction you will use to try to find yourself.. instead of trying to understand them, you will try to explain yourself, to make sense of your own worldview and to defend it to yourself through the conversion with the other.. if you have a clear vision for yourself you can hear the other.. for me it’s now my freedom, from myself and joy

 

What is interesting is that learning about personality types and even birth charts helped me to become less judgmental as well.. because I realized that people are fundamentally very different and with very different needs.. different is not “bad” or “good” it’s just how it is.. Also there are so many combinations of different qualities + upbringing + values people can have, it’s a waste to try and pigeonhole it.. It’s funny because I was obsessing with personality types for so many years it was getting weird at some point, but now I see why I was doing it..

 

What are your thoughts on spiral dynamics? 

 

Spiral dynamics are great for the self development. However, enlightenment is completely opposite which is self destroying. 

[Rose]

On 4/16/2024 at 6:26 AM, James123 said:

Spiral dynamics are great for the self development. However, enlightenment is completely opposite which is self destroying. 

Do you think people need to self development to be able to do self destroying? 

[James123]

10 hours ago, Rose said:

Do you think people need to self development to be able to do self destroying? 

Unfortunately No. Totally opposite. 

[Phil]

On 4/13/2024 at 1:11 PM, Rose said:

It is probably due to the damage of actualized.org as well, but for many years I’ve been using spiral dynamics to judge people - my stage blue family.. my stage orange coworkers, my stage green feminist/activist friend who seems to only be that way because it’s convenient for her.. bla bla bla  

 

Then I realized how deep in my own nonsense I was.. how is it that I must seem to people who are not as deep in their nonsense anymore.. I realized that I was acting like someone who is making 100K looking down at people who are making 50K - when there are people making 10M and not looking down at anyone.. 

 

While I still think it is useful to get a feel of where the person I am conversing with is at.. instead of judging them.. I choose accepting them to be perfect just the way they are.. and focusing on my own mission.. judgment takes so much processing power from me.. it’s such a waste of energy..

The nonsense (gross misunderstanding & misrepresentation) you’re touching on is precisely why Youtube removed the turquoise video. 

https://chat.openai.com/share/2e399ba4-1b29-40a3-8d6b-05b624f494b3

 

 

On 4/13/2024 at 1:11 PM, Rose said:

I still wouldn’t date someone who is in “lower stages” because I do want my close relationship to be more effortless, not having to explain myself 

That there is someone in lower stages is the nonsense (brainwashing, conjecture) the video was removed for. Don’t let nonsense limit your options. You never have to explain yourself. Matter of fact, it’s impossible, and again, indicative of why the video was removed. 

 

On 4/13/2024 at 1:11 PM, Rose said:

I have been observing that the more tolerant I am to “lower stages” of consciousness, the more responsive people are to me.

Still the brainwashing. (Sorry not sorry). ♥️

 

On 4/13/2024 at 1:11 PM, Rose said:

The more people feel you are on “their side” and they are accepted by you, the more open they are to changes.. Ego doesn’t want to feel there is anything wrong with it, and it will defend itself whenever you imply anything of that sort. Once it begins defending itself, it diminishes whatever msg being thrown at it, often even demonizing the msg and the messenger as well.
 

It is important to be able to tune in to the feelings the person is having.. to see what it is like to be that person.. that is where the spiral dynamics may help.. to see the world from their eyes and build your msg in a way that would make sense in that world or plant a seed for a different world.. Asking questions helps here as well, to be able to feel and understand their world better.. This is crazy because it also kind of tunes in into “we are one realization” - you have to look inside yourself to find that person you are talking to.. 

Yes! Compassion.  “Turquoise”.

(Exactly why the video was removed!) 

 

On 4/13/2024 at 1:11 PM, Rose said:

The problem is that if you do not know yourself.. you will not be able to tune into another person.. because every interaction you will use to try to find yourself.. instead of trying to understand them, you will try to explain yourself, to make sense of your own worldview and to defend it to yourself through the conversion with the other.. if you have a clear vision for yourself you can hear the other.. for me it’s now my freedom, from myself and joy

 

What is interesting is that learning about personality types and even birth charts helped me to become less judgmental as well.. because I realized that people are fundamentally very different and with very different needs.. different is not “bad” or “good” it’s just how it is.. Also there are so many combinations of different qualities + upbringing + values people can have, it’s a waste to try and pigeonhole it.. It’s funny because I was obsessing with personality types for so many years it was getting weird at some point, but now I see why I was doing it..

 

What are your thoughts on spiral dynamics? 

Yep. ♥️

 

Self development & self destroying are the very same ‘nonsense’ (still the brainwashing / conjecture). ‘Brainwashing’ as in the only point of the perversion of the original material is the aggrandizing of a nonexistent separate self, or, egocentrism, manipulation & deception. Conjecture as in heard but not true in accordance with direct experience. 

[Blessed2]

On 4/13/2024 at 8:11 PM, Rose said:

It is probably due to the damage of actualized.org as well, but for many years I’ve been using spiral dynamics to judge people - my stage blue family.. my stage orange coworkers, my stage green feminist/activist friend who seems to only be that way because it’s convenient for her.. bla bla bla  

 

It seems like there are other people who are at different stages because there is a belief that you are a person on a stage.

 

When you look at a tree, there is basically no judgement there. You don't look at a tree and go "that's another person". But when you look at a human face, there is that thought "other person". Cuz you think you're a human person.

 

The belief that you are a person comes with extra toppings of being a knower, a haver of biases, a haver of fears, a haver of motives, a haver of responsibility, being a subject to guilt and shame etc.

 

"I should be this/that, I'm not good as I am, I need to be better" etc. Those thoughts feel very discordant and so they are projected to/as "other".

 

On 4/13/2024 at 8:11 PM, Rose said:

my stage green feminist/activist friend who seems to only be that way because it’s convenient for her

 

This is some judgement of yourself which is projected.

 

It's not a bad thing, but a good thing cause it offers a spotlight on what you can love, enjoy and feel better about in yourself.

 

If you'd unconditionally allow and support her in whatever she's doing or thinking, regardless of why you think she's doing it / what her motives, reasons or intentions are, what things would you feel better about in yourself? What would you allow and love in yourself that you are currently judging and suppressing?

 

[Isagi Yoichi]

17 hours ago, Phil said:

The nonsense (gross misunderstanding & misrepresentation) you’re touching on is precisely why Youtube removed the turquoise video. 

https://chat.openai.com/share/2e399ba4-1b29-40a3-8d6b-05b624f494b3

 

I never thought youtube watch the videos with tons of videos uploaded everyday how do they check on all of them ?

[Phil]

@Isagi Yoichi

A combination of artificial intelligence algorithms & reviewers of videos and feedback. 

[Rose]

On 4/18/2024 at 2:56 AM, Phil said:

That there is someone in lower stages is the nonsense (brainwashing, conjecture) the video was removed for. Don’t let nonsense limit your options. You never have to explain yourself. Matter of fact, it’s impossible, and again, indicative of why the video was removed.

So what do you call people who are religious, dogmatic, abusive - spirituality aside - do you recommend dating someone who is physically abusive because there are no “lower stages”?

[James123]

14 minutes ago, Rose said:

So what do you call people who are religious, dogmatic, abusive - spirituality aside - do you recommend dating someone who is physically abusive because there are no “lower stages”?

If someone who is physically abusive will not know what is low or up, when / only there is no you, there is no stages. Therefore, there is no such thing as abusive. 

[Phil]

2 hours ago, Rose said:

So what do you call people who are religious, dogmatic, abusive - spirituality aside - do you recommend dating someone who is physically abusive because there are no “lower stages”?

No. 

[Joseph Maynor]

A gift I received from the other forum lol.  I love it.  They got the color wrong after Coral though -- those would be Teal, Mauve, Emerald, and Dusty Rose, etc. (my extension stages).  I have fun with spiral dynamics.  

Edited June 7 by Joseph Maynor

[Someone here]

@Phil get Leo and actualized The hell outta your head already.  Its something from the past..which does not exist .

Edited June 7 by Someone here

[Reena]

Spiral dynamics does help with differentiating in politics though. For example you wouldn't want to elect a stage red individual to be your leader in the same you wouldn't want a stage green hippie person living in lala land to be your leader. There you would help with some discernment. 

 

 

[Phil]

15 hours ago, Someone here said:

which does not exist .

Same as everything else. 😉 😘 

[Someone here]

51 minutes ago, Phil said:

Same as everything else. 😉 😘 

😘

No but seriously..talking about "nonsense " when you keep saying "there is no you or me " all day ? Really brother?  😂 

And why you want people to deviate from actualized.org and join your community?  Convince me please that this is not just using this website as a business project. 

[Phil]

15 minutes ago, Someone here said:

😘

No but seriously..talking about "nonsense " when you keep saying "there is no you or me " all day ? Really brother?  😂

Experiential nonsense is apparent and therein there is no need for separation or separate selves for there to be discord & alignment.

 

Like the presumption there is someone else thinking about something or someone else and the assumption of how this other thinker thinks. That would be nonsense, felt, without there actually being separation or separate selves. All that’s meant by nonsense is non-resonating or discordant - how it (the apparent & directly experienced interpretation) feels.

 

It’ll likely dawn any moment that this is again the very distinction related to the pulled video. Turqoise isn’t paradigmatically egocentric, yet egomaniacal interpretations can arise of suppression & misidentification that it is. 

 

15 minutes ago, Someone here said:

And why you want people to deviate from actualized.org and join your community?  Convince me please that this is not just using this website as a business project. 

Or that there is someone there for someone here, to convince or be convinced by. The truth is nobody cares as there is nobody here. 🤍

 

To the extent there seems to be ‘people’, there seems to be no reason people can’t use multiple websites / forums. 🤷 I don’t recall anything at all being said to the contrary. 

 

Maybe to some egos, if in fact there are egos, reality is reduced to that of being for, ego / egos, and so money seems more important than alignment, health & well-being. Idk. The “nature of users” maybe. 

 

 

[Someone here]

8 minutes ago, Phil said:

Experiential nonsense is apparent and therein there is no need for separation or separate selves for there to be discord & alignment.

 

Like the presumption there is someone else thinking about something or someone else and the assumption of how this other thinker thinks. That would be nonsense, felt, without there actually being separation or separate selves. All that’s meant by nonsense is non-resonating or discordant - how it (the apparent & directly experienced interpretation) feels.

 

It’ll likely dawn any moment that this is again the very distinction related to the pulled video. Turqoise isn’t paradigmatically egocentric, yet egomaniacal interpretations can arise of suppression & misidentification that it is. 

The other day a person on reddit told me that nonduality seems like a nonsense to him. Because it says no two but obviously the world contains two and more objects .

Again the point about the boundaries between the objects etc not really gonna get into it here ..we've beaten this horse to death lol.

As far as the word " nonsense" it can't be conveyed by means of any intelligible senses. As nonsense It can't be understood. It's a nonsense ..meaning not-sense .

9 minutes ago, Phil said:

Or that there is someone there for someone here, to convince or be convinced by. The truth is nobody cares as there is nobody here. 🤍

Perfect example of nonsense.  it is the dictionary definition of the word nonsense. 

10 minutes ago, Phil said:

To the extent there seems to be ‘people’, there seems to be no reason people can’t use multiple websites / forums. 🤷 I don’t recall anything at all being said to the contrary. 

 

Maybe to some egos, if in fact there are egos, reality is reduced to that of being for, ego / egos, and so money seems more important than alignment, health & well-being. Idk. The “nature of users” maybe. 

No . Money is certainly not the top priority.  I'd say happiness is . My religious mom prays everyday to God because prayer brings happiness to her . A drug junkie sniffs Cocaine because it brings him happiness.   teenagers jerk off to pornography because it brings them happiness etc

People are looking for happiness. 

You in this forum claim thar you can lead people to living their top lives possible..simply..achieving happiness. And that's great ! No ill feelings towards you. You are like my big brother or father .

I've been in this forum  long enough to read quite a few perspectives..& still I'm not sure what's going on here. I stayed because I enjoy occasionally sharing personal experiences and chatting with you is good mental exercise..but i think that I think some people is this forum might find some more  value in it  but I'm still here right now at this moment commenting on your post because I'm just now realizing how fucking incredible this forum actually is. Holy shit yall. 

I mean this sincerely. 

If it wasn't for t "the other forum " has bigger ratio of people and more active I would have spent more time here. 

I also really wished to see a debate between you and Leo 😂..that was gonna be brilliant 😂 but unfortunately Leo doesn't want someone who knows more than him to share the stage In his forum.

Much love man 🙏

[Joseph Maynor]

4 hours ago, Someone here said:

No . Money is certainly not the top priority.  I'd say happiness is .

 

Bliss is better than happiness.  Happiness is not constant and is strived after.  You can't have happiness without knowing its opposite.  And attaching to happiness actually causes suffering because you're trying to control reality so that it stays in existence.  Bliss is there no matter what pleasures or pains are felt.  Striving for happiness is actually a very sneaky trap that causes suffering.

Edited June 8 by Joseph Maynor

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Bliss is there no matter what pleasures or pains are felt

How is that sir ? Help me to understand.