Vedanta is solipsism. Ramana Maharishi was solipsist?

[Forza21]

https://tomdas.com/2020/03/25/ramana-maharshi-the-world-should-be-considered-like-a-dream/?fbclid=IwAR23z6ifiCkp3qvUoeO-Wy8ALhoU4yi8Ob8mexm2BQ0PhgU_7_eHiOqVRX8



@Aware Wolf @Joseph Maynor @Faith@Phil@Indisguise
 

Article for those you don't believe that Vedanta has it's solipsism background.
I know many of you are fans of Vedanta, but deep down there is solipsism, don't you think?

 

I still think it's egoistic view, when you don't care about anything, just to get "liberation" . You don't care about world, or other people. Maybe it's based on the condition they live in. If i spent whole my life in a cave, and most people in my country were starving, maybe i would think similar, to "get out", and it's only "me" who gets liberation.

But as Phil said - the purpose of the Universe is your experience. Not avoidance of it. I'm off Vedanta. Buddhism's purpose is " to save all living creatures" and it resonates much more. Jesus said, "love each others". Love is the answer. 

[Indisguise]

There is no "Jiva". It says: 

Quote

This is called the doctrine of eka jiva vada (the view there is only a single jiva/ego/person). Our own body-mind, and the body-mind of apparent others are all projections of the Self.

It doesn't say that the jiva is the only thing there is and that all other Jivas aren't real, it says that there are no Jivas at all. 

 

There's not even a need to conceive of people as "other" than you, and then to believe that they might not be real. 

People are absolutely and 100% not "other", they're as much YOU as YOU can be YOURSELF. No difference whatsoever. 

 

You can care about yourself waking up, just like there truly is a self to wake up - because that way you might discover that there's no you to wake up. But that rather, you are the very wakefulness that you sought to attain. And that once you wake up, all other people get exposed as the same wakefulness.

[Blessed2]

Solipsism:  ◯

 

Nonduality:

[Ges]

It doesn't really matter what Vedanta is ultimately, because we know the map is not the territory. But as a map, it might be useful for navigation purposes, especially for new seekers.

[Phil]

4 hours ago, Forza21 said:

deep down there is solipsism, don't you think?

No. 

[Forza21]

5 minutes ago, Phil said:

No. 

Can you Please say who you see it otherwise?

[Phil]

6 minutes ago, Forza21 said:

Can you Please say who you see it otherwise?

This thread is you still ‘touching the hot stove’. Focusing on what is discordant to you.

Trying to solve something to feel better, when letting it go, not focusing on it, is what results in feeling better. 

This is because the “better feeling” is you. 

Hard to realize that while attention is on what is discordant to you. 

 

What’s true for you, in the ‘where you’re at on your path’ sense, matters. 

What anyone else thinks or believes, doesn’t. 

You’re kinda sorta pretending, playing the game of “it does matter”. 

It doesn’t. It’s not your business. Has nothing to do with you, or the suffering. 

 

There is no ‘liberation vs caring about people or the world’.

What feels good feels good because it’s all love. 

[Forza21]

6 minutes ago, Phil said:

This thread is you still ‘touching the hot stove’. Focusing on what is discordant to you.

Trying to solve something to feel better, when letting it go, not focusing on it, is what results in feeling better. 

This is because the “better feeling” is you. 

Hard to realize that while attention is on what is discordant to you. 

 

What’s true for you, in the ‘where you’re at on your path’ sense, matters. 

What anyone else thinks or believes, doesn’t. 

You’re kinda sorta pretending, playing the game of “it does matter”. 

It doesn’t. It’s not your business. Has nothing to do with you, or the suffering. 

 

There is no ‘liberation vs caring about people or the world’.

What feels good feels good because it’s all love. 

And when you read this Article do you feel any Discord ?

At this point i dont know if what ive experienced on psychodelic was the truth or i was brainwashed by concepts and belives. I simply would like to know.

 

[Phil]

18 minutes ago, Forza21 said:

And when you read this Article do you feel any Discord ?

How is that relevant?

18 minutes ago, Forza21 said:

At this point i dont know if what ive experienced on psychodelic was the truth or i was brainwashed by concepts and belives. I simply would like to know.

 

Why?

[Forza21]

11 minutes ago, Phil said:

How is that relevant?

Why?

Because if i cheat myself into thinking that there are others, and really it is all inside my head, its not worth living… thats my biggest fear. That ill die, just to find out, i cheated my self all The time… im alone to The point of infinity… it feels like hell…  do you undestand ?

Edited April 14, 2022 by Forza21

[Phil]

18 minutes ago, Forza21 said:

Because if i cheat myself into thinking that there are others, and really it is all inside my head, its not worth living… thats my biggest fear.

Great ‘work’!

Fear’s not a thing. It’s not something you have. 

Fear is an emotion, and emotion is guidance in regard to what you’re thinkin. 

What have you seen which you want to do, have, be or experience? 

What are you jealous of? Notice the tendency not to give a direct answer to this, and relax, and see about an answer. 

 

What is the ‘myself’ which you could cheat? 

There two of you? 

 

“It’s not worth living” is an attitude. When let go, it changes for you. 

 

18 minutes ago, Forza21 said:

That ill die, just to find out, i cheated my self all The time… im alone to The point of infinity… it feels like hell…  do you undestand ?

The fear is felt in regard to this discordant thinking. 

The fear has nothing to do with what you are believing it does. 

This is the experience of thought attachment. 

[Joseph Maynor]

Advaita Vedanta at least as Shankara framed it accounts for the issue you raise.  Maya is not to be taken to mean that others don't exist.  I'll research this and give chapter and verse as to where you can see this.  I think it's in the Wikipedia article on Advaita Vedanta if I'm not mistaken. 

Read the wiki article yourself and see if you can find the answer before I post it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advaita_Vedanta
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adi_Shankara

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Joseph Maynor

[Aware Wolf]

I think @Phil has a point when he says @Forza21is touching a hot stove. We've discussed this on the other thread. But it's nice to have a stand alone thread and deal with this. But I get the feeling @Forza21 is suffering dealing with this question. 

 

My suggestion, as pedantic as it sounds, was watch ten more advaita youtube videos and things would become more clear. It's like when someone thinks Buddhists sing Hare Krishna, dance around in robes, and think an ant was their mother and life is suffering.  If these people will Watch some good Buddhist videos (I like Doug's Dharma) and the picture becomes more clear. Solipsism is rarely if ever mentioned in advaita vedanta videos. Sometimes perhaps in passing. 

 

And in the earlier thread, when Swami Sarvapriyananda mentioned the word Solipsism, later he says:

 

I see it as he says at 17:50, Paraphrasing: we're not saying one person, Aware Wolf, is projecting all of this World. What we're saying is all of us, all of us wakers, are projections of one Turiyem. Which you really are. All of us are appearing in that consciousness. 

 

There's this video, Enlightenment and Love by Swami Sarvapriyananda. Perhaps it could be helpful. As Love counters the disassociation of No Self (and No Others) or Solipsism. 

 

 

 

I like the book by Dennis Waite, Back To The Truth: 5000 Years Of Advaita. It's a thick book, but tries to explain everything in clear language. James Swartz also The Essence of Enlightenment. It's also good. 

 

Advaita Vedanta is different from Neo Advaita because Advaita Vedanta stresses the need for a good well-qualified teacher. Otherwise, you're liable to go wrong. Swami TV told me if a teacher doesn't detail where they studied Vedanta and under who -- run away as fast as possible. Our root problem, Advaita says, is ignorance.  The solution lies in removing ignorance. 

I bring this up because of the article you shared. Who is Tom Das? Where did he study Vedanta? Under who? I looked at his About Me and all I see is that he read some books. You know who also read some books, quoted Ramana for his Solipsism video? (out of context) -- Leo Gura. 

 

 

Hope this helps. If you watch ten videos of swami Sarvapriyananda, Look at Arsha Boda videos (I recommend their Introduction to Vedanta series and Atma Boda playlists), watch the James Swartz retreat videos that @Faithliked, if you read those two books I recommended -- I'll eat my hat if you come back here and post that  Advaita Vedanhas has  a solipsistic problem....

 

[Forza21]

18 minutes ago, Aware Wolf said:

I think @Phil has a point when he says @Forza21is touching a hot stove. We've discussed this on the other thread. But it's nice to have a stand alone thread and deal with this. But I get the feeling @Forza21 is suffering dealing with this question. 

 

My suggestion, as pedantic as it sounds, was watch ten more advaita youtube videos and things would become more clear. It's like when someone thinks Buddhists sing Hare Krishna, dance around in robes, and think an ant was their mother and life is suffering.  If these people will Watch some good Buddhist videos (I like Doug's Dharma) and the picture becomes more clear. Solipsism is rarely if ever mentioned in advaita vedanta videos. Sometimes perhaps in passing. 

 

And in the earlier thread, when Swami Sarvapriyananda mentioned the word Solipsism, later he says:

 

I see it as he says at 17:50, Paraphrasing: we're not saying one person, Aware Wolf, is projecting all of this World. What we're saying is all of us, all of us wakers, are projections of one Turiyem. Which you really are. All of us are appearing in that consciousness. 

 

There's this video, Enlightenment and Love by Swami Sarvapriyananda. Perhaps it could be helpful. As Love counters the disassociation of No Self (and No Others) or Solipsism. 

 

 

 

I like the book by Dennis Waite, Back To The Truth: 5000 Years Of Advaita. It's a thick book, but tries to explain everything in clear language. James Swartz also The Essence of Enlightenment. It's also good. 

 

Advaita Vedanta is different from Neo Advaita because Advaita Vedanta stresses the need for a good well-qualified teacher. Otherwise, you're liable to go wrong. Swami TV told me if a teacher doesn't detail where they studied Vedanta and under who -- run away as fast as possible. Our root problem, Advaita says, is ignorance.  The solution lies in removing ignorance. 

I bring this up because of the article you shared. Who is Tom Das? Where did he study Vedanta? Under who? I looked at his About Me and all I see is that he read some books. You know who also read some books, quoted Ramana for his Solipsism video? (out of context) -- Leo Gura. 

 

 

Hope this helps. If you watch ten videos of swami Sarvapriyananda, Look at Arsha Boda videos (I recommend their Introduction to Vedanta series and Atma Boda playlists), watch the James Swartz retreat videos that @Faithliked, if you read those two books I recommended -- I'll eat my hat if you come back here and post that  Advaita Vedanhas has  a solipsistic problem....

 

i did watch a loot of Swami. Seriously. Yes, he occasionally says something solipsism-like. But i got the feeling, that they don't say everything, and they often mix what is easier to grasp. Like one time they say about soul, karma, and all that stuff, and other time they say there's no such thing as reincarnation... they often contradict themselves.


yeah this guy is pretty random, i'm not sure why i touched this oven again.

But Raman sounds solipsism like. But it might also be translation/interpretations/believes/ other factors in play... we will never know.

 

2 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Advaita Vedanta at least as Shankara framed it accounts for the issue you raise.  Maya is not to be taken to mean that others don't exist.  I'll research this and give chapter and verse as to where you can see this.  I think it's in the Wikipedia article on Advaita Vedanta if I'm not mistaken. 

Read the wiki article yourself and see if you can find the answer before I post it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advaita_Vedanta
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adi_Shankara

 

no, i can't.

[Forza21]

24 minutes ago, Aware Wolf said:

 

 

 

Hope this helps. If you watch ten videos of swami Sarvapriyananda, Look at Arsha Boda videos (I recommend their Introduction to Vedanta series and Atma Boda playlists), watch the James Swartz retreat videos that @Faithliked, if you read those two books I recommended -- I'll eat my hat if you come back here and post that  Advaita Vedanhas has  a solipsistic problem....

 

is there any video you recommend in particular to resolve this confusion ?

[Orb]

@Forza21 No philosophy matters, they are all just beliefs.

 

This isn't about being a solipsist or advaitan or whatever.

 

[Forza21]

Just now, Orb said:

@Forza21 No philosophy matters, they are all just beliefs.

 

This isn't about being a solipsist or advaitan or whatever.

 

❤️ yeah... it's all mind-based.  

[Orb]

@Forza21 on the path, there can be a struggle to just believe in something, to just find the perfect philosophy that feels right. 

 

Only feeling into sensation will do, only focusing on what is "real". ❤️

[Joseph Maynor]

2 hours ago, Forza21 said:

no, i can't.

 

"The values and ethics in Advaita Vedānta emanate from what it views as inherent in the state of liberating self-knowledge. This state, according to Rambachan, includes and leads to the understanding that 'the self is the self of all, the knower of self sees the self in all beings and all beings in the self.'  Such knowledge and understanding of the indivisibility of one's and other's Atman, Advaitins believe leads to 'a deeper identity and affinity with all'. It does not alienate or separate an Advaitin from his or her community, rather awakens 'the truth of life's unity and interrelatedness'."  ("Ethics" section)

 

"Absolute and relative reality are valid and true in their respective contexts, but only from their respective particular perspectives.  John Grimes explains this Advaita doctrine of absolute and relative truth with the example of light and darkness. From the sun's perspective, it neither rises nor sets, there is no darkness, and 'all is light'. From the perspective of a person on earth, sun does rise and set, there is both light and darkness, not 'all is light', there are relative shades of light and darkness. Both are valid realities and truths, given their perspectives. Yet, they are contradictory. What is true from one point of view, states Grimes, is not from another. To Advaita Vedānta, this does not mean there are two truths and two realities, but it only means that the same one Reality and one Truth is explained or experienced from two different perspectives."  ("Three levels of Reality/truth" section)

 

"While Shankara took a realistic stance, and his explanations are 'remote from any connotation of illusion,' the 13th century scholar Prakasatman, founder of the influential Vivarana school, introduced the notion that the world is illusory. According to Hacker, maya is not a prominent theme for Shankara, in contrast to the later Advaita tradition, and 'the word maya has for [Shankara] hardly any terminological weight.'"  ("Māyā (appearance)" section)

 

SOURCE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advaita_Vedanta

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Joseph Maynor

[Faith]

 

At 5min he says eka jiva vada is radical solipsism. 

 

This is not the standard teachings of Advaita Vedanta and he even says that in the video. I never heard of this solipsism stuff being anything until this all blew up on Actualized.  It's rubbish as far as I'm concerned.