Vedanta is solipsism. Ramana Maharishi was solipsist?

[Faith]

5 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Yep, eventually, probably not at first though because they're very dense with a lot of terminology that I'm not yet ready to understand.  I'm going to make videos on Advaita Vedanta. 

 

Hi there, not sure what you've done thus far, but the first stage is called "Shravana" means "hearing" — Hearing the Truth- from an actual Advaita teacher is best. This doesn't need to be in person it can be something like that 16 part series I posted on the other thread. Thats about 20-25+ hours of Vedanta. We have  tendency to delude ourselves when reading spiritual text if not lead by a teacher that can "unfold" the teaching in the Advaita Vedanta methodology. 

 

Just my 2 cents. 

[God]

29 minutes ago, Faith said:

 

You would call it Isvara (or Ishvara) in Advaita Vedanta which is the supreme Self/God.

 

Again, it's not solipsism.  There's no need for the term solipsism if you are speaking about Isvara, because Isvara is saguna Brahman aka the absolute with qualities. Which already encompasses every-thing subtle and gross in all the universe. 

Okay, well.. does it make any assumptions about the outside world/people?  

[Faith]

6 minutes ago, God said:

Okay, well.. does it make any assumptions about the outside world/people?  

What do you mean by assumptions? Please be specific, so I understand what you're referring to. 

[God]

Just now, Faith said:

What do you mean? Please be specific, so I understand what you're referring to. 

The reason I bring up ideas from solipsism is because people often fail to realize that anything outside your direct experience can only ever be an assumption.  You can only ever experience your own brain/mind, and its interpretations of signals from your senses.  You can't experience anything that's not your brain.

 

But then, because the only reality you've ever known is your brain, then would there even be a need for an outside world?  It's not like you can check if the world exists.  You can't leave you brain and have a look around.  Therefore, there's no reason to assume there is an outside physical world, or physical people.  Your world is just signals/data.

 

Does a rock have consciousness?  Does a human you see have consciousness?  Is there a difference between them?

 

How do your beliefs view all this?

[Faith]

Okay, and I'm not trying to be mean when I say this 💙, but you are doing the "solipsism shuffle" from ego/mind to absolute, then back to ego/mind.

 

Meaning, you sometimes say you are referring to God/absolute and other times ego/mind/brain. I mean come on do you not see this? I refuted your "absolute " solipsism theory, by saying it's all just Isvara/God and now your back to the ego/mind/brain solipsism. 

 

2 hours ago, God said:

You can't experience anything that's not your brain.

 

That's not exactly true. You can awaken to Self-realization and then realize you aren't this mind/body you thought you were, so the whole thing is a moot point, because I'm awareness, not this "apparent" person Im associated with.

 

But, does it seem more plausible that the apparent person has appeared as part of Isvara's creation, along with the rest of the universe or that the apparent person (mind/ego) is alone and making it all up in its mind? 

 

Yes, experience happens in the brain. That's a scientific fact, but it doesn't  mean what you're experiencing is "only" in the mind, which is what solipsismis suggesting. That's two different issues. 

 

2 hours ago, God said:

Does a rock have consciousness?  Does a human you see have consciousness?  Is there a difference between them?

 

How do your beliefs view all this?

 

So, my view is this, isvara is not only the creator, but is also its creation, creating out of the only substance, awareness. Analogy- as a spider spins its web from the thread of its own body.

 

The rock is part of this creation, as is the human. All things are made up of consciousness, but not all are "conscious". You have to be a jiva with a reflective medium to reflect awareness to be "conscious" in this creation. Another's words, it must be "alive", something that grows/dies. Even plants are a rudimentary jiva, but a rock is not.

 

I think of the "apparent"  creation (including time, space, universe) as a big interconnected hologram (created out of awareness),  that is within/permeated by awareness. 

 

 

 

[Joseph Maynor]

1 hour ago, Faith said:

We have  tendency to delude ourselves when reading spiritual text if not lead by a teacher that can "unfold" the teaching in the Advaita Vedanta methodology. 

 

Just my 2 cents. 

 

This can be very true.  Today as I was doing some mindfulness meditation for hours I could see all the thought spirals going through my awareness.

[God]

6 minutes ago, Faith said:

That's not exactly true. You can awaken to Self-realization and then realize you aren't this mind/body you thought you were, so the whole thing is a moot point, because I'm awareness, not this "apparent" person Im associated with a world. 

By brain/mind I of course meant the mind that is within consciousness.  Physical reality, including a physical brain, doesn't have a reason to actually exist.

 

9 minutes ago, Faith said:

Yes, experience happens in the brain. That's a scientific fact, but it doesn't  mean what you're experiencing is "only" in the mind, which is what solipsismis suggesting. That's two different issues. 

So if not within the mind that's within your consciousness, how else can you experience something?

[Faith]

3 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

This can be very true.  Today as I was doing some mindfulness meditation for hours I could see all the thought spirals going through my awareness.

 

Thought spirals, cool 🤘

 

[Joseph Maynor]

5 minutes ago, Faith said:

 

Thought spirals, cool 🤘

 

 

I have lot.  I'm not well in that regard right now.  I need to stop reading for a while.  Those thought spirals are relentless.  Let's call them voice spirals --  the inner voice that talks.  Even if it's a thought it's preceded by a voice.

Edited April 15, 2022 by Joseph Maynor

[Faith]

12 minutes ago, Faith said:

Yes, experience happens in the brain. That's a scientific fact, but it doesn't  mean what you're experiencing is "only" in the mind, which is what solipsismis suggesting. That's two different issues. 

 

2 minutes ago, God said:

So if not within the mind that's within your consciousness, how else can you experience something?

What I meant was just because I'm experiencing something in my brain doesn't mean it's not also outside my brain that my brain is interpreting vs only being some plugged in matrix shit. 😅 

 

 

[Faith]

2 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

I have lot.  I'm not well in that regard right now.  I need to stop reading for a while.  Those thought spirals are relentless.  Let's call the voice spirals --  the inner voice that talks.  Even if it's a thought it's preceded by a voice.

That's the blah-blah default brain mode. Look up Gary Weber 'default mode' or no thoughts on youtube. He was able to stop self-referential thoughts. 

[Faith]

@Joseph Maynor

Here's one...

[Blessed2]

Solipsism isn't truth.

 

It feels off because it is off.

 

We are boundless and together.

 

What is the 'opposite' of solipsism?

 

If solipsism is not construction of thought, how can there be an opposite of it? How could it ever be known if either contruction is true, when 'knowing' or 'knower' is also thought?

 

What is not thoughts? What is thought and feeling 'made of'? What is the opposite of... This Being? If there would be an opposite to it... Would it not be the same Being?

 

Can you ever feel anything else than truth? Can feeling ever be anything else than unconditional?

 

Does Being and feeling have boundaries?

 

NO!

 

Solipsism: ◯

 

Being:

 

!!!!!

 

Imagine an infinite sea. Can this sea be 'alone'? Where is the boundary? Without boundary, is there 'loneliness'?

 

Notice you cannot really think, comprehend or fathom an infinite sea. You can think or visualize a sea, but the infinity-part can only be... felt.

 

This solipsism stuff is non-sense. Go out for a walk! Feel the big muscles in your legs. You're doing so fine.

[Forza21]

19 hours ago, Annie said:

I've had mental breakdowns before, they are not fun...
What I do is I take a break from it all and focus on self care and Love and reset myself that way, if a belief or fear of something grows too strong to handle.
For me, the realization that nature and reality is brutal and loving but also uncaring of the ego's will as it has its own Will - meaning that everything is ultimately easily destroyed and ruined - this frightens me, as I need things to be the same in order to be relatively stable.  I walk a thin line between spiritual revelation and psychosis and sometimes it overlaps.

My experiences have shown me that there are souls, like swimming in a soup, and it is a more unified experience of Love, everyone who ever was or will be is already there, giving their heart away in song (metaphor) to the divine.  Life is like a song.
Try to find things that allow you to feel inspired, bring things into your environment that give you a sense of safety, order.
Meditate, a lot.

Try meditating on the emotion of joy - wire your brain to accept joyful emotion.  Bring things into your life that evoke the power of joy.
The problem with spiritual teachings is that the path is so tailored to the individual, not the collective, but we work in a collective fashion to understand things.  Try going inwards.  Start a journal and really seek the truth, and what it means for you, individually, without any advice or authority from anyone - face death... for real, and go into the fear of it until it becomes second nature to move past the fear, and you will find Love there, illuminated in all things, together as One.  As I say this to you to try to explain, it does a disservice in a way because then you have a concept.  

 

When you find "it", you can play with it, like a puzzle.  Finding your own unique pieces to the picture.  And it manifests things in real time.
Everything is alive, and aware.  You are not alone, you are surrounded.  By life itself.  Connect to that so you don't feel alone.

That's all I can really think of, hope it helps!  Good luck!

Thank you so much! ❤️❤️ it's very relaxing, and pure. Good vibration. ❤️ 

[Forza21]

23 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

Solipsism isn't truth.

 

It feels off because it is off.

 

We are boundless and together.

 

What is the 'opposite' of solipsism?

 

If solipsism is not construction of thought, how can there be an opposite of it? How could it ever be known if either contruction is true, when 'knowing' or 'knower' is also thought?

 

What is not thoughts? What is thought and feeling 'made of'? What is the opposite of... This Being? If there would be an opposite to it... Would it not be the same Being?

 

Can you ever feel anything else than truth? Can feeling ever be anything else than unconditional?

 

Does Being and feeling have boundaries?

 

NO!

 

Solipsism: ◯

 

Being:

 

!!!!!

 

Imagine an infinite sea. Can this sea be 'alone'? Where is the boundary? Without boundary, is there 'loneliness'?

 

Notice you cannot really think, comprehend or fathom an infinite sea. You can think or visualize a sea, but the infinity-part can only be... felt.

 

This solipsism stuff is non-sense. Go out for a walk! Feel the big muscles in your legs. You're doing so fine.

Yesterday i wouldn't get it. But today i've experienced a boundless ocean of consciousness, and for a brief moment, i've realized, i'm that.  All those questions about solipsism, reincarnation, simply doesn't make sense, we are boundless and free already. There's no "I", just a bunch of arising vibrations. No different than leaf falling, or wind blowing. 
 

Edited April 15, 2022 by Forza21

[Iesu]

On 4/14/2022 at 1:30 AM, Blessed2 said:

Solipsism:  ◯

 

Nonduality:

 

On 4/14/2022 at 5:32 AM, Phil said:

No. 

No  where to go lol.

[Faith]

7 hours ago, Forza21 said:

Yesterday i wouldn't get it. But today i've experienced a boundless ocean of consciousness, and for a brief moment, i've realized, i'm that.  All those questions about solipsism, reincarnation, simply doesn't make sense, we are boundless and free already. There's no "I", just a bunch of arising vibrations. No different than leaf falling, or wind blowing. 
 

[Joseph Maynor]

I recommend reading Ramana Maharshi's works.  You have to see what he actually says.

https://www.sriramanamaharshi.org/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramana_Maharshi#Writings

Edited February 22 by Joseph Maynor

[Ceejay]

Solipsism is just a belief. Maybe reality is something that is beyond all belief/thought structures. Maybe all belief/thought structures are precisely what obscures the real nature of reality.