Dating and expectations

[Mandy]

The conceptualization or idealization of a submissive person (employee, child, partner) attracts exactly the opposite. There is no separation so requiring one and being resistant to the other attracts the other. Fear gives rise to manipulation. One wields the power outwardly while the oppressed, the submissive, manipulates, hides, pretends to appease.  Having an ego makes you target to manipulation. If you want power or to feel as if you are powerful it is easy to make you feel as if that is the case, all the while who holds the power? Better the way of the Tao. It's already the only way. 

[Mandy]

Love doesn't need to force others to respect it by being threatening, by holding something over someone's head. Love is already far better and wholly fulfilled than respect. 

[Kevin]

10 hours ago, WhiteOwl said:

I am from Scandinavia and most people don't hate the US, but that a guy like Trump can get elected is just completely jaw-dropping for most people here and doesn't put the US in a good light true.

 

So much anger, hate, selfishnnes.. rudeness in that guy. Just plain nasty really. 

 

Its almost a comedy to watch for many people here.

 

 

I am quite tolerable (i think) with whatever people believe and bring to the table, but someone voting for a guy like Trump or the euivalent here would also almost be unrepairable or understandable for me,  so i totally get her tbh. 

 

For me it seems like when tolerance doesn’t extent to trump and trump supporters it makes the person seem intolerant.

 

What i believe people miss a lot is that those strong feelings anti trumpers feel towards Trump. Many trump supporters think just as poorly about Biden and Biden supporters. Many of us think Biden and far left idealogy is destroying the country. I’m not trying to get into a political debate about why. But what I’m pointing out is that for the sake of dialog I think it’s important to except that other people can believe things that I think are crazy.

 

In other words, I think Biden is a horrible, senile president and I think it is horrifying that people voted for him and I think he is leading us towards ww3. However, I believe we all live in our own worlds with different sets of facts and so I accept people that vote differently and believe different things. And I wish the same empathy I have for Biden supporters would be extended to me.

 

I believe the media has poisoned the world against Trump. I’m not saying he’s a saint. He does say some stuff sometimes that he shouldn’t. However if the media put any other politician under the microscope in the way they put Trump under it. They could make the world hate that politician. 
 

My main point is that the media could make you hate anyone, I encourage everyone here to stop paying attention to the news. It’s toxic and it’s propaganda and it is designed to make you afraid and to make you think the world is a much worse place than it is.

10 hours ago, WhiteOwl said:

The word "expectations" sounds a bit pressuring and not something i would want on myself from someone i just met. Be open and curious and see if you resonate or not. 

Dont run into the trap of thinking that anything will be resolved after you have a girlfriend. If you in any way think it will fix you or give you something (worth?) look into that first. Not feeling like this will make you feel better about yourself and make it more clear what you actually want to attract.

I agree that if someone started putting lots of expectations on me early on I wouldn’t like it. However an expectation of respect is something I will make clear in any relationship if I feel disrespected. 
 

my previous relationship I was disrespected because I didn’t stand up for myself because I was afraid to damage the relationship. That ended in me being disrespected more, taken for granted, and eventually broken up with. I’m not looking to repeat that.

[Kevin]

7 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

 

👍 Yeah, that's good insight.

 

 

What does this projection say about the mind that projects it?

 

"They stop if they think they're gonna get hurt." 🤔

 

Have you had someone bully or harass you? It hasn’t happened a lot in my life but a few situations stand out. Me asking them to stop never worked. One situation in particular freshman year of college. A huge guy on steroids. Like 220 pounds, and lean. He was fucking with me. Calling me names. I was way smaller at the time. It was humiliating because I couldn’t do anything. I’m Large and imposing now. And I carry myself differently. I don’t remember the last time anyone fucked with me like that.

 

I do think the world is a wonderful place. Statistically, america is a very safe place. It’s unlikely that violence will happen. However there will always be the rare predator looking to hurt people. No matter how good of a person you are and how much love you exude. Violence is a possibility.

 

Also if we were nicer to bin Laden would he have not bombed the World Trade Center? If Israel was nicer to Palestinians would Hamas stop launching rockets into Israel? Would they not of done Oct 7th.

 

I believe they still would. Because they hate us and they hate Israel. Us being nice to them makes us look weak.

7 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

 

The other way around. The guy needs to be more submissive.

 

If that’s what you want in your relationship that’s fine. But that’s not what I’m looking for. And to be clear I’m not asking for a super submissive woman who does everything I ask. I’m looking for a woman who loves and respects me. And when she disagrees with me she can do it respectfully.

[Kevin]

7 hours ago, Mandy said:

The conceptualization or idealization of a submissive person (employee, child, partner) attracts exactly the opposite. There is no separation so requiring one and being resistant to the other attracts the other. Fear gives rise to manipulation. One wields the power outwardly while the oppressed, the submissive, manipulates, hides, pretends to appease.  Having an ego makes you target to manipulation. If you want power or to feel as if you are powerful it is easy to make you feel as if that is the case, all the while who holds the power? Better the way of the Tao. It's already the only way. 

I think there is a lot of connotations people have about the word submissive that are negative.

 

I want that fairy tale romance where we are obsessed with each other. I want to treat a woman like a queen. I want to take her on vacations, buy her nice things. Buy her flowers. Take her on cute dates. I want to make her the happiest girl on earth.

 

I want that kind of relationship but it’s hard when the reaction I get when I tell her I support Trump is one of aggression and disrespect.

 

It’s not about subjugating a woman and making her obedient. It’s about her appreciating what I bring to the table and how I treat her and not being disrespectful to me. At the core of it, it’s about respect

[Jonas Long]

3 hours ago, Kevin said:

I think there is a lot of connotations people have about the word submissive that are negative.

 

I want that fairy tale romance where we are obsessed with each other. I want to treat a woman like a queen. I want to take her on vacations, buy her nice things. Buy her flowers. Take her on cute dates. I want to make her the happiest girl on earth.

 

I want that kind of relationship but it’s hard when the reaction I get when I tell her I support Trump is one of aggression and disrespect.

 

It’s not about subjugating a woman and making her obedient. It’s about her appreciating what I bring to the table and how I treat her and not being disrespectful to me. At the core of it, it’s about respect

You can't support the most disrespectful person on the planet and expect to be respected.  

[Kevin]

4 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

You can't support the most disrespectful person on the planet and expect to be respected.  

You’ve been brainwashed to believe that. I recommend you disconnect from whatever propaganda machines have gotten you to believe that for a couple months. It’ll be good for you.

 

Also I could fill many books with lists of people currently alive who are more disrespectful than him. Many US politicians would be higher on that list. Judging purely on your comments on this forum, you would also be very high on the list.

[Mandy]

@Kevin What value does respect have if no one can agree on who is deserving of it? 

[Jonas Long]

21 minutes ago, Kevin said:

You’ve been brainwashed to believe that. I recommend you disconnect from whatever propaganda machines have gotten you to believe that for a couple months. It’ll be good for you.

 

Also I could fill many books with lists of people currently alive who are more disrespectful than him. Many US politicians would be higher on that list. Judging purely on your comments on this forum, you would also be very high on the list.

Oh, ok.  Nevermind, keep doing what you're doing, and keep crying.

[Kevin]

21 minutes ago, Mandy said:

@Kevin What value does respect have if no one can agree on who is deserving of it? 
 

respect is very important. It allows for social cohesion. It doesn’t matter what others think. I lead with respect until I am disrespected. Then I modify my behavior. The degree to which I modify it depends on how much I care about the other.

[Kevin]

16 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

Oh, ok.  Nevermind, keep doing what you're doing, and keep crying.

Lol. Comments you would be too afraid to say to my face. I’ve seen your videos. You look soft as hell.

[Jonas Long]

38 minutes ago, Kevin said:

You look soft as hell.

Not where it counts ;)

[Phil]

On 1/22/2024 at 1:30 PM, Kevin said:

So I’m very confused currently about dating expectations. I’ve gone out with one girl a few times and I’m not sure if I’m being reasonable or unreasonable. I have certain expectations that aren’t getting met and then I feel insecure because I start thinking about how if she liked me more she would do these things.

 

I think I’m being reasonable but holding on to these beliefs about how she should act differently does not feel good. But then I think if I let it go I might end up in a relationship that’s unsatisfying for me.

Very wise to take pause and listen to the intuition. Nice. 

 

The confusion is the implication there are two of you, one which knows how the other feels (‘I feel insecure’). You’d have to experience yourself to have some kind of idea what you feel like. 

 

Insecurity is how some thoughts / beliefs feel. The guidance of insecurity points to the discord of the thought about security being related to, contingent upon or coming from someone else or a relationship with someone. More deeply it points to that true felt security does not come from any thoughts, thinking or beliefs. It can seem to in a thin & fleeting sense, but not in any deep, lasting, real sense. Similar to dependence on ‘positive thinking’, in comparison to self-discovery. 

 

That someone needs to change or like you for you to feel secure / security is a discordant belief for a Good reason. There is an ocean of security just below the appearing surface levels thoughts about how or who people are, that their behaviors are related to you and not indicative of limiting beliefs held, being respected or appreciated etc. 

 

Communicating what you want and what she wants is sharing preferences while discovering if you’re a match chemistry, attraction, preferences, interests etc wise. It’s fun, light, easy, simple, clear. Communication is the other-than conceptualizing emotion. Food tastes better, the body feels lighter, the head is clearer, you laugh together way more, the intimacy is way better with the deeper emotional connection, openness & vulnerability. You discover more about each other in this way, which also makes for a much more informed assessment if you’re a good match. So much more informed (by feeling) that no thinking or assessing is / would actually be needed. 

 

On 1/22/2024 at 1:30 PM, Kevin said:

 

I guess I’m not sure about how to get what I want in a relationship without being demanding or needy. And certain things are very important if I’m gonna be with someone for a long time. But being demanding doesn’t seem right.

 

It seems like the best option is to date different people until I find the exact type of person I’m looking for. But that might take forever. And then isn’t there something to be said for loving a person including some things that you don’t really like?

Love everyone whether you like them or not, and a deeper sense of security will be felt. Notice self referential thoughts & acknowledge emotions and that deeper felt security will seem to expand profoundly as it’s unfettered. 

 

4 hours ago, Kevin said:

I think there is a lot of connotations people have about the word submissive that are negative.

 

I want that fairy tale romance where we are obsessed with each other. I want to treat a woman like a queen. I want to take her on vacations, buy her nice things. Buy her flowers. Take her on cute dates. I want to make her the happiest girl on earth.

 

I want that kind of relationship but it’s hard when the reaction I get when I tell her I support Trump is one of aggression and disrespect.

 

It’s not about subjugating a woman and making her obedient. It’s about her appreciating what I bring to the table and how I treat her and not being disrespectful to me. At the core of it, it’s about respect

From fairy romance experience… there is love at first sight. There is ‘the one’. Pure inexplicable unthinkable un-planable incalculable un-expectable un-suspectable actual literal real magic. All thoughts & beliefs go out the window and it’s obvious thinking has nothing to do with it and never did. You & her vs the world, and the world could explode or disappear and it literally wouldn’t matter at all to either of you because - love. 

 

And there’s a honeymoon phase, where all discord has vanished. Rainbows, butterflies, bird’s chirping. Real life Snow White Disney love. Truly unbelievable. 

 

But just like with a trip, if the thoughts weren’t inspected, if discordant beliefs weren’t dispelled, if emotion isn’t guiding - the same emotional discord resurfaces. So it’s most worthwhile imo, to listen to the guidance and to introspect, and not to entangle emotional well being with someone’s thoughts or preferences. Ideally, not even ‘your own’, and that takes some bubble bursting apparently. 

[Kevin]

6 hours ago, Phil said:

Very wise to take pause and listen to the intuition. Nice. 

 

The confusion is the implication there are two of you, one which knows how the other feels (‘I feel insecure’). You’d have to experience yourself to have some kind of idea what you feel like. 

 

Insecurity is how some thoughts / beliefs feel. The guidance of insecurity points to the discord of the thought about security being related to, contingent upon or coming from someone else or a relationship with someone. More deeply it points to that true felt security does not come from any thoughts, thinking or beliefs. It can seem to in a thin & fleeting sense, but not in any deep, lasting, real sense. Similar to dependence on ‘positive thinking’, in comparison to self-discovery. 

 

That someone needs to change or like you for you to feel secure / security is a discordant belief for a Good reason. There is an ocean of security just below the appearing surface levels thoughts about how or who people are, that their behaviors are related to you and not indicative of limiting beliefs held, being respected or appreciated etc. 

 

Communicating what you want and what she wants is sharing preferences while discovering if you’re a match chemistry, attraction, preferences, interests etc wise. It’s fun, light, easy, simple, clear. Communication is the other-than conceptualizing emotion. Food tastes better, the body feels lighter, the head is clearer, you laugh together way more, the intimacy is way better with the deeper emotional connection, openness & vulnerability. You discover more about each other in this way, which also makes for a much more informed assessment if you’re a good match. So much more informed (by feeling) that no thinking or assessing is / would actually be needed. 

 

I’m communicating in this relationship way more than in any other any we’ve only hung out 4 times. I will say I still hold back some stuff because I like to keep it copacetic.

 

Ive posted a bunch on here lately about this woman and each time I’ve brought up a problem it seems to resolve itself next time I hang out with her because I discuss it so that’s going well overall.

6 hours ago, Phil said:

Love everyone whether you like them or not, and a deeper sense of security will be felt. Notice self referential thoughts & acknowledge emotions and that deeper felt security will seem to expand profoundly as it’s unfettered. 

 

From fairy romance experience… there is love at first sight. There is ‘the one’. Pure inexplicable unthinkable un-planable incalculable un-expectable un-suspectable actual literal real magic. All thoughts & beliefs go out the window and it’s obvious thinking has nothing to do with it and never did. You & her vs the world, and the world could explode or disappear and it literally wouldn’t matter at all to either of you because - love. 

 

That’s beautiful. I’m happy for you. In the case of you and your wife was it love at first sight like you’d never seen her or met her before just then you saw her and you knew? 
 

Reading that made me question my feelings for this girl because I definitely didn’t feel that. However kissing her for the first time was magical. So idk I’m confused.

6 hours ago, Phil said:

And there’s a honeymoon phase, where all discord has vanished. Rainbows, butterflies, bird’s chirping. Real life Snow White Disney love. Truly unbelievable. 

 

But just like with a trip, if the thoughts weren’t inspected, if discordant beliefs weren’t dispelled, if emotion isn’t guiding - the same emotional discord resurfaces. So it’s most worthwhile imo, to listen to the guidance and to introspect, and not to entangle emotional well being with someone’s thoughts or preferences. Ideally, not even ‘your own’, and that takes some bubble bursting apparently. 

That last bit was 🤯

[Phil]

3 hours ago, Kevin said:

I’m communicating in this relationship way more than in any other any we’ve only hung out 4 times. I will say I still hold back some stuff because I like to keep it copacetic.

 

Ive posted a bunch on here lately about this woman and each time I’ve brought up a problem it seems to resolve itself next time I hang out with her because I discuss it so that’s going well overall.

Awesome. Also, maybe keeping it copacetic is not saying something that might fester. Idk. Have to feel into that. 

 

3 hours ago, Kevin said:

That’s beautiful. I’m happy for you. In the case of you and your wife was it love at first sight like you’d never seen her or met her before just then you saw her and you knew? 

Kinda but more so just love. (Not knowing). 

 

3 hours ago, Kevin said:

Reading that made me question my feelings for this girl because I definitely didn’t feel that. However kissing her for the first time was magical. So idk I’m confused.

I wouldn’t question my feelings… I would question the concept of ‘my feelings’ and explore and allow emotions. ‘My feelings’ is inherently confusion as again it implies a separate or second self. 

 

3 hours ago, Kevin said:

That last bit was 🤯

🥰

♥️

🤯 

 

 

 

[Mandy]

17 hours ago, Kevin said:

Lol. Comments you would be too afraid to say to my face. I’ve seen your videos. You look soft as hell.

 

21 hours ago, Kevin said:

Have you had someone bully or harass you? It hasn’t happened a lot in my life but a few situations stand out. Me asking them to stop never worked. One situation in particular freshman year of college. A huge guy on steroids. Like 220 pounds, and lean. He was fucking with me. Calling me names. I was way smaller at the time. It was humiliating because I couldn’t do anything. I’m Large and imposing now. And I carry myself differently. I don’t remember the last time anyone fucked with me like that.

 

Kinda seems like you decided "if you can't beat em', join em'? "Soft as hell?" What does that mean? What is this attracting? 

[Jonas Long]

16 hours ago, Kevin said:

You look soft as hell.

You can't put me down for that while simultaneously supporting someone who looks like they're made out of melting marshmallows.  I mean,  you can of course, cognitive dissonance doesn't seem to bother you.

[Kevin]

7 hours ago, Phil said:

Awesome. Also, maybe keeping it copacetic is not saying something that might fester. Idk. Have to feel into that. 

 

do you mean if something bothers me I shouldn’t always mention it? Or do you mean I should be respectful about how I bring things up? I’m not sure what you mean.

 

7 hours ago, Phil said:

Kinda but more so just love. (Not knowing). 

 

I wouldn’t question my feelings… I would question the concept of ‘my feelings’ and explore and allow emotions. ‘My feelings’ is inherently confusion as again it implies a separate or second self. 

 

right on. This makes sense.

 

7 hours ago, Phil said:

🥰

♥️

🤯

 

 

 

 

[Kevin]

2 hours ago, Mandy said:

 

 

Kinda seems like you decided "if you can't beat em', join em'? "Soft as hell?" What does that mean? What is this attracting? 

Look 99.9 percent of my comments on this forum have been very respectfully. Anyone can look through my post history and see this. I believe in leading with respect. That Jonas guy started out being disrespectful and so I responded in kind.

 

I come to this forum to be vulnerable and so if someone’s gonna pick on me for my beliefs I’m gonna respond. And yeah I probably will be disrespectful right back.

[Kevin]

1 hour ago, Jonas Long said:

You can't put me down for that while simultaneously supporting someone who looks like they're made out of melting marshmallows.  I mean,  you can of course, cognitive dissonance doesn't seem to bother you.

lol proving my point