Arrogance & Humility.

[Phil]

38 minutes ago, Serenity said:

What's the difference between holding on conditions and discernment?

Can you give an example?

[Serenity]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

Can you give an example?

If someone is saying that bananas are yellow, and someone else says that bananas are red with little pink dots, at what moment should one watch out when trying to help the other part to see that they are indeed yellow?

 

I suppose it is a question of intentionality and ability to let go? Not making of this situation something that is at stake for the ego?

 

How do I know if I am just trying to describe what is objectively  there and when I am trying to state something out of my conditioning/ego ?

 

 

 

[Phil]

@Serenity

The difference is discord (suffering). 

[Jonas Long]

You ignorant arrogant nobodies

[Serenity]

14 minutes ago, Phil said:

@Serenity

The difference is discord (suffering). 

I suffer a lot especially when I am afraid when it comes to the consequences of the person not seeing what I think just "is".

 

I know I am sometimes in the shoes of the person who is not so thoughtful of consequences on other too, but when I see it it gets me angry/sad or what you call discordant.

 

What's behind is fear, and anger at seeing suffering "outside", and I fall in the trap of feeling restless inside, I think.

 

How are you at peace with harm being perpetrated?

[Phil]

5 minutes ago, Serenity said:

How are you at peace with harm being perpetrated?

Not perpetrating harm. 

 

Keep listening to your intuition. 

Break the cycle. 

[Serenity]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

Not perpetrating harm. 

 

Keep listening to your intuition. 

Break the cycle. 

🙏

 

Thank you. I'll keep this in mind and do better.

[Phil]

@Serenity

What do you mean by do better?

[Serenity]

2 hours ago, Phil said:

@Serenity

What do you mean by do better?

Be aware that quality of awareness on the inside influences the outside.

 

And that there is no duality to be found between the inside and the outside, even if the outside might look separate and different.

 

[Phil]

11 minutes ago, Serenity said:

Be aware that quality of awareness on the inside influences the outside.

What comes to mind as far as what’s aware of awareness, such that the quality of awareness is being or could be assessed or determined? 

Put another way, what can or could   be aware?

[Serenity]

5 minutes ago, Phil said:

What comes to mind as far as what’s aware of awareness, such that the quality of awareness is being or could be assessed or determined? 

Put another way, what can or could   be aware?

All is I recalling I, until I.

 

 

[Phil]

14 minutes ago, Serenity said:

All is I recalling I, until I.

Sorry but I’m not really sure what that means. Could you maybe put it a different way?

[Serenity]

7 minutes ago, Phil said:

Sorry but I’m not really sure what that means. Could you maybe put it a different way?

😂

I mean that all is I, recalling that it is I, until recalling is no more thought to be required and realize it was just I all that time.

 

Is this expression clearer?

[Phil]

@Serenity

I’m not sure but it sounds like what you’re saying is that I is aware of awareness, and so I is aware of the quality of awareness. 

Do I have it right?

[Serenity]

2 minutes ago, Phil said:

@Serenity

I’m not sure but it sounds like what you’re saying is that I is aware of awareness, and so I is aware of the quality of awareness. 

Do I have it right?

Yes.

 

What I meant was that it's awareness just being aware.

 

I mean, it's a tautology. The only thing that can ever be ever aware is awareness. Awareness just is itself, awareness.

[Phil]

@Serenity

What are the consequences you’re referring to? 

[Phil]

@Serenity

Is it about conditions held & discernment, or arrogance & humility?

 

By ‘it’, all that’s meant is the consequences referred to. 

 

What are those consequences again?

[Serenity]

13 minutes ago, Phil said:

@Serenity

Is it about conditions held & discernment, or arrogance & humility?

 

By ‘it’, all that’s meant is the consequences referred to. 

 

What are those consequences again?

The problem is that often, I don't know. I think that's the real difficulty.

 

There is arrogance, in the sense that there is a sense of self that is thinking about itself and how it is afraid and scared to be subjected or harm by unconsciousness. And it prioritize its feelings of discomfort, and try to force and push awareness when it is not able to see how the sense of self is able to see yet.

 

The consequences I fear is disharmony, disunity, and the suffering that I can perceive as the natural cause and effect due to a situation that isn't being fixed.

 

Let's say for instance that I am being upset about children being bombed. I see people bombing children, and I want it to stop. And with that comes strong anger at how unconscious people are because I can see through a lot of that unawareness, but I also do feel disgusted with the ignorance because I am disgusted at me when I am being ignorant. Which is a form of ego/arrogance in the form of self-righteousness and projection. 

 

And when that happens, while I am trying to help people discern better, I can have a sense of superiority coming up to the surface, especially when I am stumbling into the arrogance of someone that shouldn't be arrogant. Like thinking, how could these people that can't discern believe their discernment is better than mine? So I fall into some sense of unwarranted awareness hierarchy where I get upset if someone unconscious insist that they are being conscious and I am being unconscious, thinking there are two awarenesses and one is higher than the other 🤒.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Serenity

[Phil]

@Serenity

Does knowing about consciousness, like that there are people, entities or beings which are more & less conscious, more & less aware or awake, feel more like arrogance / ignorance, or humility / alignment? 

 

How did you create, come up, come to this conclusion, that this is a problem?

 

If it’s conditioning, essentially a belief, is there still a problem?

What are the possible practical consequences of that being a belief? 

What might happen when such a belief is confronted?

 

Are the consequences projected?

As in, believed to potentially be in a future, while in actuality already being experienced in terms of bodily health and bodily & mental well-being?

 

Given the arguably persistent nature of beliefs, perhaps consequences which seem like something you can never get to the bottom of, in terms of bodily/mental health & well-being?

 

And does that feel like arrogance / ignorance, or humility / alignment?

[Serenity]

1 minute ago, Phil said:

@Serenity

Does knowing about consciousness, like that there are people, entities or beings which are more & less conscious, more & less aware or awake, feel more like arrogance / ignorance, or humility / alignment? 

It does, but it wasn't seen through before. Mostly, it would show up as buzzing annoyance in the background and some mild agression and desire for the person to comply to what I'd see as a healthier, more aware behavior. (The irony)

 

4 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

How did you create, come up, come to this conclusion, that this is a problem?

On the external level, because I am unpleased with the causality chain that will be induced by the situation or behavior.

 

But I suppose it is the sense of self that is turning this into a problem by believing there is a problem.

 

6 minutes ago, Phil said:

If it’s conditioning, essentially a belief, is there still a problem?

No. The belief is the hindrance until it's seen through and let go.

 

7 minutes ago, Phil said:

Are the consequences projected? As in, believed to potentially be in a future, while already being experienced in terms of bodily health and bodily & mental well-being?

Yes. I do that. I still get caught on a regular basis in the belief that there is a future and I am not already living in eternity where all is well. There are some underlying fears to let go of the sense of self, the idea of past and future because it's all familiar and I am addicted to the sense of self and suffering.