Kevin Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 First of all I would like to say I do not want this thread to be a debate about who is right in this conflict. If you want to debate that make a new thread. I’m making this thread because I’m experience lots of tension and anger around this conflict. And I want to let it go. Basically when October 7th happened I was pretty angry. I go to lots of raves and so I guess the mental image of terrorists shooting up a rave really made me mad. And then recently I saw a video of GoPro footage from the terrorists. I made it about 10 minutes into the video before I had to turn it off. Genuinely some of the worst stuff I’ve ever seen. I was upset but it’s pretty far away so I tried to put it out of my mind. What really gets to me though is how many people in America are sympathetic towards the terrorists. And even worse some people here are supporting them. I feel like I live in crazy land. I think part of why I’m upset is because when I was a young kid, I had a conflict with my mom. This same conflict arose over and over for years before it resolved. I was so sure I was being treated unfairly but she would dismiss my complaints and just say “oh you’re just a kid you don’t understand.” I felt so much inner conflict at the time because I was so sure I was right but my mom who I was supposed to trust was telling me I was wrong. Eventually I got older and I was able to affirm that yes I was right. now that I am an adult my mom has apologized and agrees with my assessment. But for years I had resentment about that. And as a kid I dealt with so much inner turmoil. Because I was so sure I was right and my mom would threaten and punish me. That whole story relates because I’m so certain that if you rape people and cut off heads and torture people then you are a terrorist. However, people in the media and some people I know are clearly thinking of these people as freedom fighters even. My mom is a bleeding heart liberal so obviously she thinks the terrorists are victims of circumstance and it’s Israel’s fault, etc. I think that’s an incredibly stupid thing to say. I mean pedophiles are a victim of circumstance. That doesn’t excuse their behavior. She even doubts that the terrorists were raping people. Even though there is video of it. It’s astonishing. I feel disgust and contempt towards people that think like that. i’m pretty sure this post is within the guidelines. But I want to be clear I’m not making this thread to bitch about a group of people. I’m making this thread because I am triggered and I’m experiencing a similar emotional response like I did when I was a kid. I understanding having hate in my heart doesn’t feel good. And it’s unproductive for me to dwell on this. But it feels relevant because the emotional response is familiar and there’s gotta be a reason I’m responding to this the way I am, and I’d like to get to the bottom of it. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteOwl Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 12 minutes ago, Kevin said: But it feels relevant because the emotional response is familiar and there’s gotta be a reason I’m responding to this the way I am, and I’d like to get to the bottom of it. If you don't respond to people getting raped or tortured or whatever horrifying stuff you mention i think thát should be something to look into, not if you do. I think thats completely normal. Your mother or other liberals or who else thinks Israel is to blame doesn't like any of that either. They disgust it as much as you do probably. But i think they might be looking at the bigger picture of why things could be happening the way they do. If you keep picking and bullying the kid for years, one day he might snap and do something horrible. That doesn't excuse it or make it any less tragic, but it could be understood 😕 Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteOwl Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 20 minutes ago, Kevin said: She even doubts that the terrorists were raping people. Even though there is video of it. It’s astonishing. And again what does that matter what the terrorists did of horrible things for the civil population of Palestine? 5k kids murdered already. How does that make you feel? Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted November 28, 2023 Author Share Posted November 28, 2023 7 minutes ago, WhiteOwl said: If you don't respond to people getting raped or tortured or whatever horrifying stuff you mention i think thát should be something to look into, not if you do. I think thats completely normal. Your mother or other liberals or who else thinks Israel is to blame doesn't like any of that either. They disgust it as much as you do probably. But i think they might be looking at the bigger picture of why things could be happening the way they do. If you keep picking and bullying the kid for years, one day he might snap and do something horrible. That doesn't excuse it or make it any less tragic, but it could be understood 😕 Trust me I get it. I get why they do what they do. I get frustrated because when a pedophile rapes a kid, no one talks about how the pedophile was a victim of circumstance. It would be disrespectful to the victims family and to society. We put them in jail and that’s the end of it. To be fair pedophiles were generally molested or abused as kids but no one focuses on that. In the same way, yes terrorists are a victim of circumstance. But I don’t think anyone should care. They should be wiped out. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 There appears to be suffering. What's called for? What's asked for? Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 Is one camp ALLOWED to suffer, and the other not allowed to suffer? The people we think are right are the ones allowed to suffer? Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 What's suffering actually? Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteOwl Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, Kevin said: I get frustrated because when a pedophile rapes a kid, no one talks about how the pedophile was a victim of circumstance. It would be disrespectful to the victims family and to society. We put them in jail and that’s the end of it. To be fair pedophiles were generally molested or abused as kids but no one focuses on that. Some people do? Its quite common knowledge that people who commit horrible crimes were usually abused themselves. Im sure you know that. They get put to jail and you don't get the full picture never obviously, because that doesn't make things any better. Why would it be disrespectful for the victims i don't understand that. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted November 28, 2023 Author Share Posted November 28, 2023 6 minutes ago, WhiteOwl said: And again what does that matter what the terrorists did of horrible things for the civil population of Palestine? 5k kids murdered already. How does that make you feel? From a political standpoint. It’s absolutely necessary for Israel to continue. From my point of view It doesn’t bother me that much. It’s a part of war. And when terrorists launch rockets from school and hospitals then there will be more civilian casualties. that coupled with the videos of civilians taunting and harassing the captives being freed recently and polls showing 85 percent of Gazans support the events of October 7th its hard for me to have any sympathy. the tough part is that the population has been raised on hate and so who’s fault is it? I honestly don’t know. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteOwl Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Kevin said: From a political standpoint. It’s absolutely necessary for Israel to continue. From my point of view It doesn’t bother me that much. It’s a part of war. And when terrorists launch rockets from school and hospitals then there will be more civilian casualties. that coupled with the videos of civilians taunting and harassing the captives being freed recently and polls showing 85 percent of Gazans support the events of October 7th its hard for me to have any sympathy. the tough part is that the population has been raised on hate and so who’s fault is it? I honestly don’t know. Im out Hope you find peace in whatever you go through Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted November 28, 2023 Author Share Posted November 28, 2023 10 minutes ago, Mandy said: Is one camp ALLOWED to suffer, and the other not allowed to suffer? The people we think are right are the ones allowed to suffer? I think I see where you’re going. If I really look into my emotions on this subject, the emotions are rooted in tribalism. Why do I care for the suffering of Israelis and not of Palestinians? At the root of it, it’s tribalism. If I’m being honest, the way I like to live is far more in line with Israeli way of life. I have a hard time sympathizing with people that will do what they’ve done. When I was a kid I avoided other kids who got pleasure from torturing insects and small animals. Emotionally and energetically that’s how this feels to me today. Maybe there is something I’m missing here. In fact I’m sure there is but I don’t know what. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 @Kevin It's not really anyone's suffering though, no one owns suffering. I'd get really indulgently inappropriately selfish about it. What do you want? What are you willing to suffer for? Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 Eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an... Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted November 29, 2023 Author Share Posted November 29, 2023 14 minutes ago, Mandy said: Eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for an eye for and eye for and eye for an eye for an eye for an... I agree it’s useless. My next thought though is turn the other cheek? Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted November 29, 2023 Author Share Posted November 29, 2023 23 minutes ago, Mandy said: @Kevin It's not really anyone's suffering though, no one owns suffering. I'd get really indulgently inappropriately selfish about it. What do you want? What are you willing to suffer for? I have been suffering for what I think is justice. Hate hurts, I hated my mom for years because I thought that was the right thing to do. Why couldn’t I just move on and forget about it. I have no clue. And here I am projecting those same feelings onto terrorists, and any thought that comes up is more justification for the same. I know I’m dwelling on negative shit because it feels bad. I should probably stop posting about it but I don’t know. I’m confused. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted November 29, 2023 Share Posted November 29, 2023 @Kevin What if there's no right thing to do? Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted November 29, 2023 Author Share Posted November 29, 2023 1 hour ago, Mandy said: @Kevin What if there's no right thing to do? Yeah I mean all those things are avoiding my feelings so your on to something. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted November 29, 2023 Share Posted November 29, 2023 @Kevin I would inspect direct experience as far as pain vs suffering, feeling vs feelings, and hate as an emotion (how certain thoughts or interpretations feel). The clarity therein, in direct experience, will shed light on the ignorance of violence. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted November 29, 2023 Author Share Posted November 29, 2023 49 minutes ago, Phil said: @Kevin I would inspect direct experience as far as pain vs suffering, feeling vs feelings, and hate as an emotion (how certain thoughts or interpretations feel). The clarity therein, in direct experience, will shed light on the ignorance of violence. I will do that. Thank you. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted November 29, 2023 Share Posted November 29, 2023 Quote Mention There must be an effortless way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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