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Hi, so "consciousness" right now is a thought. But let's say we are trying to know or understand something called "consciousness".

So, are taste, smell, touch, seeing, hearing all contents of consciousness?

How to understand consciousness if it cannot be pointed to? 

How to make sense of consciousness?

 

Please clarify.

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11 hours ago, Newbie dude said:

Hi, so "consciousness" right now is a thought.

Hi, btw, love the name, but you might regret it in a year or so.😉

Anyways, if you are very new to all of this mumbo jumbo, then may I suggest you read "The power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle. I believe you can read it on pdf (please no one post the link, since it's a copyright protected book). Anyways, just look up the book and pdf. You should get plenty of hits.

 

As for your question, consciousness, is who you "are", it is also the "gaps" between words, it's every-thing and no-thing, it's what is aware of objects (both subtle and gross), it's the ultimate seer, it's what knows the preciever and the percieved. It is what the world is created from and enlivened by.  I could go on and on, but what I definitely am not is a teacher.  So, I don't want to lose you.

 

Consciousness is the "present moment" as E. Tolle says, the power of NOW, this moment. It/you can't be anywhere, but "now". 

 

11 hours ago, Newbie dude said:

So, are taste, smell, touch, seeing, hearing all contents of consciousness?

They are all objects known to consciousness. Consciousness, also known as awareness, can experience the world through the body/mind/senses.

 

The body/mind is a superimposition upon awareness, it mistakenly thinks it is the body/mind. Awakening is the realization that one is not what they thought they were, they are not the body/mind, they are awareness itself.

 

"What's looking is what you're looking for".

 

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Consciousness is awareness.  It's prior to thought.  Thoughts occur across consciousness like a flaming arrow shot across a lake.  Consciousness is a standing ground in a way.  It's a watching go by.  Most people are so focused on things they never realize consciousness.  To be able to realize consciousness or awareness is a gift on the path.  And then there's many things that can be done after consciousness is realized but not before.  You will watch everything from consciousness -- even your own death, and all other moments of your life.   It's all the same in that it's all experience/awareness/consciousness.  The five senses occur within consciousness, but even those are an abstraction somewhat in space and time, a "carving out" of consciousness using words.   The five senses is an incredibly useful model, but consciousness is the field that registers all information including the "five senses" if that makes sense.  

Edited by Joseph Maynor
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6 hours ago, Newbie dude said:

How to understand consciousness if it cannot be pointed to? 

 

The first problem we need to see when it comes to "understanding consciousness" is this: trying to point at consciousness or trying to become aware of cosnciousness is like trying to touch the tip of your finger with the tip of your finger.

You can't turn around and look at the very thing which is looking, and that's exactly the central issue.

 

The only way to "know" the tip of your finger is to be the tip of your finger, which already is the case. The tip of your finger doesn't have to achieve anything in order to be what/who it already is, except:

let go of the thought that consciousness is "something", in the sense of something that can somehow be grasped at all, either with the mind, or with the senses, or even with consciousness itself.

"It" (consciousness) is not something that can enter consciousness, in other words, you cannot become conscious of consicousness (at least not in the conventional sense). 

Consicousness cannot be an object of your knowledge/perception/awareness.

 

Not because it is exceedlingly difficult or anything like that, but simply because the problem itself is utterly and completely meaningless. 

 

If you thought that it was possible to touch the tip of your finger with the tip of your finger, you would completely wear youself out in futility and frustration.

And in fact, this may be necessary for you to understand the meaninglessness of the basic assumption of your enterprise. 

 

And this is the basic idea behind Zen Koans; the master poses a meaningless problem which cannot be groqued with the mind, which has not logical answer and which can't be explained in any way whatsoever. 

Again; not because the Koan is extremely complicated and difficult, but because the attempt of finding an "answer" is just the wrong approach.  

 

 

And so consciousness is said to be void, emptiness.

Emptiness is not a quality of consciousness, it's not something that "it is". 

 

Here's a Koan for you:

 

"Show me nothing". 

 

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@Faith

18 hours ago, Faith said:

Hi, btw, love the name, but you might regret it in a year or so.😉

Anyways, if you are very new to all of this mumbo jumbo, then may I suggest you read "The power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle. I believe you can read it on pdf (please no one post the link, since it's a copyright protected book). Anyways, just look up the book and pdf. You should get plenty of hits.

 

As for your question, consciousness, is who you "are", it is also the "gaps" between words, it's every-thing and no-thing, it's what is aware of objects (both subtle and gross), it's the ultimate seer, it's what knows the preciever and the percieved. It is what the world is created from and enlivened by.  I could go on and on, but what I definitely am not is a teacher.  So, I don't want to lose you.

 

Consciousness is the "present moment" as E. Tolle says, the power of NOW, this moment. It/you can't be anywhere, but "now". 

 

They are all objects known to consciousness. Consciousness, also known as awareness, can experience the world through the body/mind/senses.

 

The body/mind is a superimposition upon awareness, it mistakenly thinks it is the body/mind. Awakening is the realization that one is not what they thought they were, they are not the body/mind, they are awareness itself.

 

"What's looking is what you're looking for".

 

Hii thanks a lot. Would surely read the book you recommended by Eckhart Tolle. And haha, I would forever like to remain newbie dude, considering the infinite magnitude of this "rabbit hole".

 

Ah so you say  "They are all objects known to consciousness". I know the objects we both are talking about, at least I hope we both are talking about the same objects haha xD. But when you say "consciousness", my mind looks again for an object or assumes a "brain causing consciousness" or it struggles to find something called "consciousness" to have an reference experience of. If consciousness is prior to mind, then it'll forever struggle or grasp.

 

So how to move prior to mind or how to recognize I never was the mind? 

 

This quote "What's looking is what you're looking for" is also confusing xD.

 

What's looking - No-thing or nothing but the mind needs a thing. It refuses to accept this xD.   

 

Also deep sleep might be better reference experience for me for No-thing. There's nothing there and it's so nothing that I can't even say there's nothing there. So empty.

 

Also I feel like deep sleep and the awaking state like an On/Off light bulb these days. When I wake up, I "see" a lighted up room, when i sleep, nothing exists.

Read this Light bulb analogy somewhere but yes, it sure feels like light blub.

Can my mind grasp consciousness from this light bulb analogy?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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@Newbie dude

 

“Realizing” that you can be conscious of your self, others and your action can push you forward in the beginning. But over analyzing this experience is not so useful. Also, from my perspective  this capacity varies between people but with practice you can get better at returning at staying conscious. (For sure you have friends or family who are more conscious and less conscious) Unconscious in this context means when you are not experiencing intentionality or deliberateness. This is being conscious of yourself. 
 

Conscious is “hooked”differently in different person and for most of the people they already know how to do it.  Dont try to find it in experience, most probably you will just mess up yourself. For example, if you have played race cars games then you have noticed you tend to move the body similarly as you are moving the car, although you are using only your hands. Or if you are reading images, sounds , association pop up in present moment inside of you while you are reading. Being conscious of yourself happens similarly. (if you are looking to do some self improv and so on)

You can also hook to the experience of yourself being conscious of itself and become mega conscious lul, or, experiencing conscious and so on. Many ways this can go wrong. 
 

Also, from the prespective of consciousness you are always unconscious or to say automatic. Because experience conscious doesnt feel like any other experience and so on and so on.
 

The rest, is a hobby. 
 

I would say leave and never comeback to this topic :d. Or at least, you will do yourself a favor if you first understand why you are chasing such topic. 
 

I am stuck in this topic but i realize its useless. Respect, for the rest of the conscious community, afterall i will stick around. 

Edited by bardh
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6 hours ago, Newbie dude said:

Hii thanks a lot. Would surely read the book you recommended by Eckhart Tolle. And haha, I would forever like to remain newbie dude, considering the infinite magnitude of this "rabbit hole".

Good, yes read it! Rabbit hole, lol.

 

6 hours ago, Newbie dude said:

so you say  "They are all objects known to consciousness". I know the objects we both are talking about, at least I hope we both are talking about the same objects haha xD.

 

I'm actually referring to literally anything, both subtle (within mind) or gross (body and world). 

Now, one can say no, no you are wrong, it's my eyes that see, not consciousness. Ok, well, let's trace it back. What registers that the eyes see? The mind.

What knows the contents of the mind? Consciousness.

 

Now, someone may say, no its not consciousness, it's the ego, because the ego comments on what's seen. This is true, but who or what knows the ego? You betcha, consciousness/awareness. 

This is a form of Self-inquiry.

 

Also, contemplating on the sense of "I".  The "I" thought is that aspect of oneself that tends to borrow its relative existence from consciousness itself. It say, "I" am conscious, but really it's awareness that is aware OF the "I" thought. You can notice being aware of the "I" thought and anything you are aware OF can not be you. 

 

6 hours ago, Newbie dude said:

But when you say "consciousness", my mind looks again for an object or assumes a "brain causing consciousness" or it struggles to find something called "consciousness"

Yes, that's part of the journey. Totally normal. 

 

6 hours ago, Newbie dude said:

If consciousness is prior to mind, then it'll forever struggle or grasp.

 

So how to move prior to mind or how to recognize I never was the mind? 

 

This quote "What's looking is what you're looking for" is also confusing xD.

The mind can understand this, but awakening is "from" the mind. If it wasn't able to be understood, then no one could speak of it. I like to use the term Self-realization (Self with a capital "S" is for consciousness/Brahman) or awakening for when it dawns on you (epiphany, whatever) that you are not the body/mind, you are awareness. Ppl describe it as an experience, but in truth,  it's a non-experience that when the mind comes back it's instantly claims as an experience "it" had. 

 

You can start to read, watch videos and meditate/ do self- inquiry. To prep yourself for the possibility of understanding/having an awakening. 

 

"What's looking is what your looking for" 

 

So, when the mind is calm, steady and without thought, it is at that moment as close to pure awareness as it (the mind) can get. "Looking" through the eyes in that moment, without judgements or interpretation, is as close as the mind can get to knowing pure awareness (awareness without qualities), however there's a subtle knowing of even that. So, some quality still exists, which means it's still not completely accurate. That saying is a pointing only and when picked apart, as I'm doing, it will fall apart. 

 

6 hours ago, Newbie dude said:

Also deep sleep might be better reference experience for me for No-thing. There's nothing there and it's so nothing that I can't even say there's nothing there. So empty.

 

Whatever works! 

 

6 hours ago, Newbie dude said:

When I wake up, I "see" a lighted up room, when i sleep, nothing exists.

Read this Light bulb analogy somewhere but yes, it sure feels like light blub.

Can my mind grasp consciousness from this light bulb analogy?

 

 

I'm not sure what the full analogy is, since I've not heard it. If you mean when you're awake the "light" is consciousness shining on objects and in deep sleep it doesn't then I get that. I don't know if I would have found that that helpful or not. Let me know.

 

Nameste 

💙

 

 

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On 4/4/2022 at 7:12 PM, Newbie dude said:

Hi, so "consciousness" right now is a thought. But let's say we are trying to know or understand something called "consciousness".

So, are taste, smell, touch, seeing, hearing all contents of consciousness?

How to understand consciousness if it cannot be pointed to? 

How to make sense of consciousness?

 

Please clarify.

You cannot grasp consciousness because it is what you are fundamentally.   One cannot grasp itself.   The eye cannot look back at itself.  Because it is itself.  So don't try to conceptualize consciousness.   Realize that it is what reality is made of.  It is not made of matter and you can become directly conscious of this.

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12 hours ago, bardh said:

@Newbie dude

 

“Realizing” that you can be conscious of your self, others and your action can push you forward in the beginning. But over analyzing this experience is not so useful. Also, from my perspective  this capacity varies between people but with practice you can get better at returning at staying conscious. (For sure you have friends or family who are more conscious and less conscious) Unconscious in this context means when you are not experiencing intentionality or deliberateness. This is being conscious of yourself. 
 

Conscious is “hooked”differently in different person and for most of the people they already know how to do it.  Dont try to find it in experience, most probably you will just mess up yourself. For example, if you have played race cars games then you have noticed you tend to move the body similarly as you are moving the car, although you are using only your hands. Or if you are reading images, sounds , association pop up in present moment inside of you while you are reading. Being conscious of yourself happens similarly. (if you are looking to do some self improv and so on)

You can also hook to the experience of yourself being conscious of itself and become mega conscious lul, or, experiencing conscious and so on. Many ways this can go wrong. 
 

Also, from the prespective of consciousness you are always unconscious or to say automatic. Because experience conscious doesnt feel like any other experience and so on and so on.
 

The rest, is a hobby. 
 

I would say leave and never comeback to this topic :d. Or at least, you will do yourself a favor if you first understand why you are chasing such topic. 
 

I am stuck in this topic but i realize its useless. Respect, for the rest of the conscious community, afterall i will stick around. 

Leave and never comeback to this topic 😞

yes sounds right though, these attempts might be futile as you say

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Look around you, the world is real, consciousness is the "real world" pretty much. 

 

Ever wondered what infinite intelligence is? Look around you, that "real world" around you is what the word consciousness is pointing to.

 

Consciousness is also what the world "feeling" points to. 

🌞🌚

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On 4/5/2022 at 1:12 AM, Newbie dude said:

Hi, so "consciousness" right now is a thought. But let's say we are trying to know or understand something called "consciousness".

So, are taste, smell, touch, seeing, hearing all contents of consciousness?

How to understand consciousness if it cannot be pointed to? 

How to make sense of consciousness?

 

Please clarify.

Start a dream board, live life you truly want, that's how 🥰

 

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There is nothing to understand or make sense of, in the way it seems you use those words, which is to conceptualize or create some mental map.

 

Just be present, which means experience those senses of taste, smell, touch, sight, hearing fully without going into your head and thinking about them.

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