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[Orb]

@Mandy I've recently learned about how most politicians in every branch of our government are being influenced by donations from corporations and lobbying. Seems like common sense but I saw the bigger picture of this yesterday. 

 

It's one of those chicken and egg situations, is it the Government that's using corporations to influence society and hiding behind them so only the corporations are blamed? Or is it the corporations using the government? 

 

I'm no expert at this stuff I'm pretty average intellectually when it comes to politics but it's interesting to consider. 

 

I would say it's the government. I'm fundamentally against monopolies, what's a greater monopoly than a business so powerful that they have nukes and a military/ police force to defend its own integrity?

 

This video explains how the "State" possibly uses mainstream media to push propaganda but at the same time make it seem like it isnt: 

 

14 hours ago, Orb said:

Another good video on the news:

 

 

[Mandy]

@Orb There isn't just "THE government", there's the Federal government, the State government, and then there's your town or city government. Both parties work to balance how much power local governments have versus the Federal government. Schools are funded by the local government, they get both state, federal and town money, but lots of it comes from the town or city. Where I live, the culture in towns vary widely, and if there are wealthy property owners who do not support the school, local elected officials are plagued with spending a lot of their time (often volunteered or barely compensated for their time) to try to keep schools open or funded so that they can properly educate kids. Towns that are wealthy and that DO support spending for schools provide beautiful, excellent schools. To me, this is a massive oversight that hurts kids and hurts everyone long term as these kids grow up and move all over the country. There are two State run schools in the area, one is a Native American reservation school that is federally funded, and one is a consolidated school. Our town run and governed school constantly loses our very best teachers to these schools because they pay more. The discrepancy hurts kids. 

 

However, the needs of a community can vary WIDELY and so it also can be beneficial to put the power on a lower level government. Each party serves the other party by balancing, but the crucial element is to focus on what's wanted and work together, not what is not wanted. 

 

 

[Blessed2]

40 minutes ago, Orb said:

It's one of those chicken and egg situations, is it the Government that's using corporations to influence society and hiding behind them so only the corporations are blamed?

 

I'd say no. This is a very odd way IMO to set the question. The government isn't the puppet master.

 

If we must pount fingers st something specific, I'd say stuff like big corporations, banks and CIA etc. is who's really pulling the strings. CIA probably holds more power than the government you see on TV. Yes, CIA is a part of the government (on paper), but I think it's way more shadowy than that.

 

It's a pretty complex web of power. Ultimately though the people hold the power. And not even. You're the King. Power is spread upon literally everything.

 

I see the federal government as really just a "point" of compressed energy.

 

45 minutes ago, Orb said:

Or is it the corporations using the government? 

 

What's using the corporations?

 

What does it really boil down to?

 

I'd say money. For me it seems that money in the today's global system is like the blood of power. In a capitalist system, capital is... The point. The heart.

 

50 minutes ago, Orb said:

I would say it's the government. I'm fundamentally against monopolies, what's a greater monopoly than a business so powerful that they have nukes and a military/ police force to defend its own integrity?

 

The "government" is quite literally everything you see around you. It's not just a bunch of people in the white house etc. The government is in all trains, all cars, all hospitals, all food, all water, all buildings, and even in marriage. IMO it's better to think of government as the space within which all of society functions. Even if the government was reduced like libertarians want, this would still be the case. Cause the government doesn't exist only within the white house etc.

 

53 minutes ago, Orb said:

This video explains how the "State" possibly uses mainstream media to push propaganda but at the same time make it seem like it isnt: 

 

The "State" doesn't use the media, but the media is the state and the state is the media. Of course media is propaganda.

 

There is no such thing as "unbiased media" or something. Just the choice to cover something and not something else is an act of bias, or propaganda.

 

For example, why isn't any media, left, right  center or anarchist, writing articles and broadcasting news about what's going on and what's the drama today in the ant colony living under the pavement of the street you live? Might sound like a silly question but really take a moment to think about it.

 

Society, especially a modern society with millions and billions of people couldn't function without propaganda / media. It's essential.

[Orb]

6 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

 

I'd say no. This is a very odd way IMO to set the question. The government isn't the puppet master.

 

If we must pount fingers st something specific, I'd say stuff like big corporations, banks and CIA etc. is who's really pulling the strings. CIA probably holds more power than the government you see on TV. Yes, CIA is a part of the government (on paper), but I think it's way more shadowy than that.

 

It's a pretty complex web of power. Ultimately though the people hold the power. And not even. You're the King. Power is spread upon literally everything.

But that's the thing in American society, there's no hard line between the banks, the corporations, and Government, they're all interlinked. We have more of an oligarchy imo. The CIA is definitely pulling the strings. Isnt it so strange how we take for granted that a section of the government can just make its operations hidden from its citizens, yet at the same time make it so that they can monitor what all the citizens are doing. 

 

10 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

What's using the corporations?

 

What does it really boil down to?

 

I'd say money. For me it seems that money in the today's global system is like the blood of power. In a capitalist system, capital is... The point. The heart.

Hm, I wouldn't limit this trait only to a capitalist system, every government style or economic system will have natural hierarchies. It's really the desire for power. This is also the case with communist countries, and it's worse over there. At least in capitalist countries the majority of the citizens are living pretty well, I mean I have the freedom to live a pretty awesome life. 

 

What bugs me is monopolies. 

 

I'm not sure the right word to use, when I say government I really mean establishment, the pullers of the strings.

[Orb]

@Mandy I'm way more in support of states/town governments having more power than the federal government! I'm also not a fan of the CIA, and also not a fan of how they misuse the people's money.

[Mandy]

6 minutes ago, Orb said:

@Mandy I'm way more in support of states/town governments having more power than the federal government! I'm also not a fan of the CIA, and also not a fan of how they misuse the people's money.

I'm just saying, it's a balance, it's not really about supporting one and not supporting the other. Putting too much weight on small government opens doors for inequality and people falling through the cracks because they are the wrong color, religion, gender, wrong place wrong time.

 

Can money actually be wasted by government, when the government also creates and backs money to begin with? Maybe it is the thoughts, and the split intentions and the lack of focus on what is wanted that results in what we see as the wasted dollars, not the waste of the programs themselves. Maybe the wasted dollars are the canary in the coal mine of what's more importantly being misused, our words and our intentions and how we treat one another. 

[Blessed2]

5 minutes ago, Orb said:

But that's the thing in American society, there's no hard line between the banks, the corporations, and Government, they're all interlinked.

 

That's really the case eveywhere. Even if there was no "on paper" or lawful connection between government and corporations etc, they would still exist within the same framework. They cannot exist separately. Like for example, what would a government and what would they govern if there was no food supply companies? And if there was no government but only a food supply organization, wouldn't that food supplier itself be the government?

 

10 minutes ago, Orb said:

Hm, I wouldn't limit this trait only to a capitalist system, every government style or economic system will have natural hierarchies. It's really the desire for power. This is also the case with communist countries, and it's worse over there. At least in capitalist countries the majority of the citizens are living pretty well, I mean I have the freedom to live a pretty awesome life. 

 

Oh yeah, I agree. Though there isn't really true communism anywhere yet. True communism would be stateless. And even in that communist ideal there would be power dynamics. It would just be shared more equally. Though that's a different conversation.

 

12 minutes ago, Orb said:

What bugs me is monopolies. 

 

I think centralized power is kind of necessary, at least for now. We already lived in a world without monopolies you see. A couple thousand years ago. There was just a bunch of small groups of people whom all had different ways of life, religions, worldviews, values etc. Each had their own story of who they are, where they came from and where they're going. And all of them were basically in constant war. Until stuff like the Roman empire unified them under one monopoly of power. That's really the beginning of civilization.

 

Imagine if all organizations of today would become separate monopolies. The US would splinter into a thousand separate little governments. Until the most powerful one would take all the power, and that's kinda what we have today.

 

Yet also, the US already isn't a monopoly. There's other countries too, AKA other "monopolies". Humanity is already splintered into individual power organizations, just like I described what would happen if US organizations would splinter. It's what you see when you look at a world map with borders drawn on it. And that's what you see playing out in Ukraine and Israel as we speak.

 

This is why I (as a european) support taking EU further and forming a federal europe. IMO it's really the only reasonable way. The alternative is really what we already saw in the last century (war). I think it would be best for all power to be under one monopoly basically. Ultimately the same for the entire world (one world government).

 

It's a fascinating subject. Love it.

[Orb]

@Mandy @Blessed2 after reading your posts, I've come to the conclusion that what's more aligned is a balance of both Right and Left aspects. 

 

I'm currently not a fan of all the extremism in USA, both sides are very reactive to each other. 

 

Also, the federal Europe idea is actually pretty cool. It would be a lot like USA, and the USA model is pretty effective and quite mind-blowing compared to older models. It's cool to have multiple states with their own unique laws and cultures but all united under one federal government. Although, I'm not sure if other countries have done this already.

 

I have gone through metamorphosis and become....a moderate, or whatever in the middle lol. 

 

I want people to thrive in society, I want people to have whatever level of wealth they want. I also want people to receive assistance from other people. I also want the tax dollars to he used more effectively. I want transparency.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Orb

[Mandy]

@Orb It seems like people identify where they stand more than what they want. Identification is about selection in the moment, not a frozen fixed self concept. It's easier to judge an idea or a project or policy that "is", than to creatively  envision what is becoming. Yet even  the judgement is still creating, you/we can't not create. 

[Joseph Maynor]

Freedom is a value.  And not everyone values it the same.  If you have it you know it.  If you don't, you have some other value that you put ahead of it.  Every person/perspective/system operates with a unique hierarchy of values.

[Phil]

Freedom is intrinsic in being, like peace and happiness. These aspects must be infringed upon or obscured to not seem to be intrinsic. 

[Orb]

42 minutes ago, Phil said:

Freedom is intrinsic in being, like peace and happiness. These aspects must be infringed upon or obscured to not seem to be intrinsic. 

It seems like conditioning has gotten so out of hand that it's like the dirty laundry is a mountain.

[Jonas Long]

28 minutes ago, Orb said:

It seems like conditioning has gotten so out of hand that it's like the dirty laundry is a mountain.

It is like that.  That's why people fall prey to the ideologies like the ones in the videos you shared.  

[Phil]

40 minutes ago, Orb said:

It seems like conditioning has gotten so out of hand that it's like the dirty laundry is a mountain.

Yes it’s really spiraled.  😳 

[Mandy]

As Abraham Hicks says, it's a faster moving stream, which isn't a bad thing but it makes things seem so much more extreme.  Imagine having the algorithms on social media completely mimic the LOA itself, yet with most people not yet understanding what's going on with that, yet spending most of their free time there. THAT WOULD BE CRAZY! 😂