I need Advice for Taming the Ox

[Loop]

@Orb

 

🪲 Just appreciate the bugs  🐜 

[Blessed2]

9 hours ago, Orb said:

hmm idk, im just saying that a common theme across all peeps aligned with self realization is the ability to literally sit for hours with no desire to do anything.

 

This is a belief, a condition placed on your unconditional self. A thought-story about self-realized or aligned people etc, and how you should be and act different. Basically, judging yourself.

 

9 hours ago, Orb said:

But sometimes my drive to create actually comes from the fear of sitting doing nothing. 

 

There isn't really any fear of anything. That's a misunderstanding of fear. You do not have fear, you experience the emotion fear.

 

"I have a fear of certain things"

vs.

"I am experiencing the emotion fear when I focus on certain thoughts"

 

This might seem an irrelevant distinction, but it's highly significant.

 

The "drive to create" is a shift of focus from thoughts that feel like fear to thoughts that feel better. I'd say allow that without judgement. It's your natural emotional wisdom.

 

What thoughts about sitting for hours without doing anything creates the emotion fear you experience?

 

12 hours ago, Orb said:

The point is, I want to be able to sit in silence for hours and be at peace. 

 

Hmm. You wrote "I want to be able to..." instead of "I want to". 🤔

 

It very much sounds like conditions placed on the self. Conceptualization of a separate self.

 

I really recommend the enlightened ants - contemplation.

 

The true self is perfect and liberated whether you sit ten hours meditating like Ramana Maharshi or shoot heroin under a bridge. Acknowledge this with everyone you encounter. How you see "others" comes back to you, and there won't be shooting heroin for much longer.

 

[Orb]

@Mandy@James123@Loop@Blessed2Phil once told me that thoughts are like trains leaving grand central station, but I am grand central station, so instead of getting lost in the trains, I stay established in the knowing that I am grand central station. That's exactly what I mean by taming the Ox. Basically no longer getting in the trains. 

 

It requires a lot of.....wait for it....TRAIN-ing. 

Edited July 11, 2023 by Orb

[Mandy]

@Orb The whack-a-mole analogy is clearer IMO.  😂  What happens when you train your muscles, lift weights for an hour 5 times a week for one year straight? What happens after the following year when you don't do it at all and eat ice cream before bed every night instead. Training does not = unconditional. Training is literally conditioning. 

 

Even then, who cares, still doesn't mean it's not worth doing, just means that it's either fun or a hamster wheel. What happens if I lift weights for 15 minutes every morning for a year cause it feels great? What happens if I am to impatient for that, think 15 minutes is for pussies, my case is too unique for that approach, and I lift weights for 4 hours one day when I'm supposed to be finding a job?  Which option is an example of self love and respect and love for my body? Which is more likely an example of escape and avoidance? If you are inspired to sit for hours by all means do it, but usually the inspiration is a flow that 15 minutes in the morning when you haven't been doing that will be a lot easier to find. 

 

You tame the ox by loving and respecting it, yet being firm, and clear about what you want, not by beating it into submission good and hard once because you're too impatient to spend time with it every morning. 

 

I would not settle for long meditations, I would stay 24/7, knowing that a thought about how I didn't stay for the previous thought is the only thought, there aren't two. I would also focus to  get my income flowing again and make an intention to schedule a retreat by myself in nature and really do it the right way, create it, don't do it to avoid anything. You can't get it wrong though. 

 

[Phil]

2 hours ago, Orb said:

@Mandy@James123@Loop@Blessed2Phil once told me that thoughts are like trains leaving grand central station, but I am grand central station, so instead of getting lost in the trains, I stay established in the knowing that I am grand central station. That's exactly what I mean by taming the Ox. Basically no longer getting in the trains. 

“Established in the knowing” is a train.  

 

2 hours ago, Orb said:

 

It requires a lot of.....wait for it....TRAIN-ing. 

That’s a train. It’s a funny train, but it implies mountains… which in truth are just hill areas. 

 

Look at the Taming section with a hindsight lens by looking at the beginning of the Riding Home section:

Here the practice, introspection & inspection of direct experience, expression and allowing & receiving of emotional guidance coalesce as focus upon what is wanted. (Conscious creating). 

 

If conscious creating isn’t the case don’t frame it as a problem, think of the scale and that there is something to be expressed & unburdened of. The cork is never made or forced to float; the unfettered corks just floats. 

[Orb]

@Phil what do you mean by looking at the taming stage with a hindsight lens?

[Orb]

@Phil also, there is real "work" to be done. The vast openness must be sustained for longer than an hour or

two. It's real work. 

 

you have to stay vigilant and make sure not to get sucked into beliefs. Which happens to me a lot, so how can I say I've made any progress on the path when I talk about nonduality shit and then get lost in thoughts for the whole day? 

 

What about the zen monks who meditate all day? 

 

I saw a zen monk called Yamada Mumon Roshi and the amount of peace and silence in him seemed incredible, seemed like it's a product of years of meditation.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Orb

[Phil]

2 hours ago, Orb said:

@Phil what do you mean by looking at the taming stage with a hindsight lens?

2 hours ago, Phil said:

Here the practice, introspection & inspection of direct experience, expression and allowing & receiving of emotional guidance coalesce as focus upon what is wanted. (Conscious creating). 

How’s introspection going?

How’s inspection of direct experience going?

How’s expression going?

How’s acknowledging the emotions experienced going? 

Is focus on wanted? 

 

1 hour ago, Orb said:

@Phil also, there is real "work" to be done. The vast openness must be sustained for longer than an hour or

two. It's real work. 

Just express honestly what’s wanted. Don’t settle for focusing on what isn’t wanted. 

Introspection: Who is sustaining a vast openness?

Inspection of direct experience: Where exactly is the sustainer, and where is the vast openness? Point to them. 

Expression: When the emotion already being experienced is acknowledged & expressed, do thoughts about a self sustaining a vast openness still arise?

Focus on wanted: Write what’s wanted on the dreamboard. Imagine & feel that it is already the case. Use the emotional scale for any arising emotions. Use the scale per the instructions. Allow inspired effortless action. If that doesn’t seem to be the case, express the emotion which arises. 

 

1 hour ago, Orb said:

 

you have to stay vigilant and make sure not to get sucked into beliefs.

Introspection: Who is staying vigilant? Who gets sucked into beliefs?

Inspection of direct experience: Is someone staying vigilant and getting sucked into beliefs, or are those thoughts awareness is aware of? Point to the one the thoughts are about. 

Expression: When the thoughts about having to stay vigilant and not get sucked into beliefs arise, which emotion is felt? What’s the next emotion? And the next, until the scale is finished.

Focus on wanted: Is staying vigilant and not getting sucked into beliefs wanted?   Why?

 

1 hour ago, Orb said:

Which happens to me a lot, so how can I say I've made any progress on the path when I talk about nonduality shit and then get lost in thoughts for the whole day? 

Introspection: Who or what is that me which has to stay vigilant and not get sucked into thoughts… and which this happens or is happening to? Is that just another thought? Is that me which these thoughts are about actually present? 

Inspection of direct experience: If that me is present, point to it. If that me can not be pointed to, there are these thoughts about that me yet that me is not actual in accordance with direct experience. 

Expression: Nonduality is shit because ____________. Which emotions are experienced? What is the guidance ‘saying’ about discord & alignment with respect to how the thoughts feel? Is, so to speak, the source / guidance agreeing with, resonating with these thoughts? If not, why not? If not, are the thoughts being believed in spite of suffering, or is the guidance being heard and listened to?

Expression: The reason it’s so important to be able to say I’ve made progress on the path & talk about nonduality is _____________. Which emotion is felt?

Focus on wanted: Is making progress on a path and talking about nonduality and getting lost in thoughts all day what’s wanted?

 

1 hour ago, Orb said:

What about the zen monks who meditate all day? 

They can also introspect, inspect direct experience, express arising emotions, and focus on wanted.  

 

1 hour ago, Orb said:

I saw a zen monk called Yamada Mumon Roshi and the amount of peace and silence in him seemed incredible, seemed like it's a product of years of meditation.

Introspection: Is a thought experienced about peace and silence being the product of a doer doing?

Inspection of direct experience: Where is the doer? Point to it. Was peace & silence actually seen to be inside of him, or is the thought about believed?

Expression: Express jealousy. (And so on up the scale). 

Focus on wanted: Is years of meditation so peace and silence can be experienced in a future what’s wanted?

 

It’s all release, relief… letting facade, ‘the armor’, ‘the wall’ go … not a doing or a getting somewhere else. Not a way to a better experience. All that’s actually wanted is allowing the cork to float in this experience, exactly as it is. More so, not even. 

[Loop]

@Orb

Instead of striving to stay vigilant, welcome any energy that arises. 
 

Welcoming it will allow the energy to open up more and express whatever is there. 
 

[Orb]

@Phil @Loop @Mandy

 

Alignment is the first step. I fell for the ol' ego trick.

[Joseph Maynor]

I love this set of the 10 Oxherding Pictures

 

https://www.sloww.co/zen-ten-bulls-oxherding-pictures/