ConsciousDreamer666 Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 What is 'me'? A belief, a thought. Therefore how can I even assume there's a self alive here? Let alone think or beliefs of 'other selves'? Do you think it's possible to live functionally and at the same time don't even know you are alive, or even have the 'feeling' that all of 'this' is 'something'? Is this the stuff of 'Not Knowing' that gurus talk about? Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Maynor Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 (edited) Maybe your perception both is and is not yours, and also neither. Why the need to resolve this issue through ideas? I understand that need, but I'm kinda showing that you've intellectualized this issue more than maybe you realize. This reminds me of a Mooji video I watched (I'll try to find it and post it below) where he said he had pity on those reading books. This goes back to Zen. There's a famous story in Zen lore which says a Zen monk tried to sneak off from the monastery to read a book. And a Zen Master who was walking by the stream one day encountered this man reading a book. And he said to him, "counting black beans eh!". And the guy ashamedly hid his book and tried to play it off in some way. But see, the Zen Master knew that's what you're doing.: You're reading a book. You're counting words (black beans stand for characters in Chinese language). That's your life. You're staring at a page in a book counting black beans. And Mooji understood this. Think of the time investment you're making staring at pages in a book instead of doing something else with your time! Intellect, the why vs./and the what, is sort of seen as the key to solving the problem of life. But what if there is no problem to be solved? Now what? Paradoxically, there can be a problem in your life if you acknowledge and allow that, but also how could there be a problem in reality as it is unless you create one? Edited April 5, 2023 by Joseph Maynor Quote Mention 💬 🗯️🤍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 53 minutes ago, ConsciousDreamer666 said: Do you think it's possible to live functionally and at the same time don't even know you are alive, or even have the 'feeling' that all of 'this' is 'something'? Don't get ahead of yourself. Every moment takes care of itself. No one is thinking "I don't know I'm alive!" when they are selecting their groceries at the grocery store. Every moment takes care of itself. It's about examining beliefs that feed the suffering and not feeding it anymore, you still buy the groceries and love the "others" maybe you only find more satisfaction it it. The suffering you or future suffering you, or the future you you are worried about being is not a living entity, it's a thought, it doesn't need to be fed with worries about the future or grudges against other, or with notions of not being there yet or good enough yet. Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James123 Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, ConsciousDreamer666 said: What is 'me'? A belief, a thought. Therefore how can I even assume there's a self alive here? Let alone think or beliefs of 'other selves'? Do you think it's possible to live functionally and at the same time don't even know you are alive, or even have the 'feeling' that all of 'this' is 'something'? Is this the stuff of 'Not Knowing' that gurus talk about? Anything you learned is illusion, including the word of illusion, birth or universe, perception took place with so called learning, now is before so called birth. Nothing has ever happened. Thats why it is called awakening from dream, because the dream is realizing that this is world and awakening is the realization of now is before birth, you are always in deep sleep the ego is the one , which is you, universe or world. Edited April 5, 2023 by James123 Quote Mention "It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 1 hour ago, ConsciousDreamer666 said: Do you think it's possible to live functionally and at the same time don't even know you are alive, or even have the 'feeling' that all of 'this' is 'something'? That's already happening now. Thought creates an illusion of somethingness, but if you see through that now it's clear that nothing is happening, and even if thought keeps arising still nothing is happening. So the somethingness is an illusion. Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConsciousDreamer666 Posted April 5, 2023 Author Share Posted April 5, 2023 3 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said: Maybe your perception both is and is not yours, and also neither. Why the need to resolve this issue through ideas? I understand that need, but I'm kinda showing that you've intellectualized this issue more than maybe you realize. This reminds me of a Mooji video I watched (I'll try to find it and post it below) where he said he had pity on those reading books. This goes back to Zen. There's a famous story in Zen lore which says a Zen monk tried to sneak off from the monastery to read a book. And a Zen Master who was walking by the stream one day encountered this man reading a book. And he said to him, "counting black beans eh!". And the guy ashamedly hid his book and tried to play it off in some way. But see, the Zen Master knew that's what you're doing.: You're reading a book. You're counting words (black beans stand for characters in Chinese language). That's your life. You're staring at a page in a book counting black beans. And Mooji understood this. Think of the time investment you're making staring at pages in a book instead of doing something else with your time! Intellect, the why vs./and the what, is sort of seen as the key to solving the problem of life. But what if there is no problem to be solved? Now what? Paradoxically, there can be a problem in your life if you acknowledge and allow that, but also how could there be a problem in reality as it is unless you create one? 3 hours ago, Mandy said: Don't get ahead of yourself. Every moment takes care of itself. No one is thinking "I don't know I'm alive!" when they are selecting their groceries at the grocery store. Every moment takes care of itself. It's about examining beliefs that feed the suffering and not feeding it anymore, you still buy the groceries and love the "others" maybe you only find more satisfaction it it. The suffering you or future suffering you, or the future you you are worried about being is not a living entity, it's a thought, it doesn't need to be fed with worries about the future or grudges against other, or with notions of not being there yet or good enough yet. It's difficult to not intellectualise. I´m just sharing what it comes up. I don't really think about this stuff 24/7 of course. I have work to do 😂 2 hours ago, James123 said: Anything you learned is illusion, including the word of illusion, birth or universe, perception took place with so called learning, now is before so called birth. Nothing has ever happened. Thats why it is called awakening from dream, because the dream is realizing that this is world and awakening is the realization of now is before birth, you are always in deep sleep the ego is the one , which is you, universe or world. 🫡👌 2 hours ago, Orb said: That's already happening now. Thought creates an illusion of somethingness, but if you see through that now it's clear that nothing is happening, and even if thought keeps arising still nothing is happening. So the somethingness is an illusion. 👀 Is that a word game Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, ConsciousDreamer666 said: 👀 Is that a word game 😂 I'm not doing any word games although it may seem like it. Really nothing is happening. If you were watching a movie while constantly narrating in your head what was happening in the movie and then the mental narration stopped for just a few seconds, in those few seconds, was anything happening in the movie? Edited April 5, 2023 by Orb Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Maynor Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 (edited) I disagree with Mooji on two things in that video I posted above. (1) I don't think one should have no compassion for the ego. (2) Also, I don't like grounding spiritual enlightenment on truth. I would watch out for those. I also think he has thinking in his shadow going by how he regards studying and reading. But other than those somewhat minor things in the scheme of things objections, that's one of my favorite spiritual enlightenment videos. Notice that even though Mooji has has integrated the Divine, he doesn't put the human in his shadow like a lot of other "intellectualized teachers" often do. Edited April 5, 2023 by Joseph Maynor Quote Mention 💬 🗯️🤍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConsciousDreamer666 Posted April 6, 2023 Author Share Posted April 6, 2023 2 hours ago, Orb said: 😂 in those few seconds, was anything happening in the movie? It would only happen perception, but without knowledge or interpretation. I guess what you are trying to say is that I leave perception but remove all assumptions. And yeah I think what happened to me other day in the 'big awakening' was precisely that. I fucking stop thinking absolutely. Everything became Love. 19 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said: I disagree with Mooji on two things in that video I posted above. (1) I don't think one should have no compassion for the ego. (2) Also, I don't like grounding spiritual enlightenment on truth. I would watch out for those. I also think he has thinking in his shadow going by how he regards studying and reading. But other than those somewhat minor things in the scheme of things objections, that's one of my favorite spiritual enlightenment videos. Notice that even though Mooji has has integrated the Divine, he doesn't put the human in his shadow like a lot of other "intellectualized teachers" often do. Why would you have compassion for the ego? It's falsehood, not truth. It doesn't serve us. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Maynor Posted April 6, 2023 Share Posted April 6, 2023 (edited) 35 minutes ago, ConsciousDreamer666 said: Why would you have compassion for the ego? It's falsehood, not truth. It doesn't serve us. The ego is you/the ego is me. One can't attain self-acceptance without realizing and accepting this imo. I realize others will disagree with me on this. Chasing something that is not you and trampling you underfoot is not going to get you self-acceptance and inner peace. This is something I think very few on the path understand and even fewer embody. It all circles back eventually to everything is fine, there's no problem. But without that going out and coming back in -- that trip -- the self that's always been here can't be seen with a new set of eyes. Edited April 6, 2023 by Joseph Maynor Quote Mention 💬 🗯️🤍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConsciousDreamer666 Posted April 6, 2023 Author Share Posted April 6, 2023 11 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said: The ego is you/the ego is me. One can't attain self-acceptance without realizing and accepting this imo. I realize others will disagree with me on this. Chasing something that is not you and trampling you underfoot is not going to get you self-acceptance and inner peace. This is something I think very few on the path understand and even fewer embody. It all circles back eventually to everything is fine, there's no problem. But without that going out and coming back in -- that trip -- the self that's always been here can't be seen with a new set of eyes. Where is the 'ego' in your direct experience? Can you 'point' to it in any way? Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Maynor Posted April 6, 2023 Share Posted April 6, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, ConsciousDreamer666 said: Where is the 'ego' in your direct experience? Can you 'point' to it in any way? Where is No Ego in your experience? Where exactly is your experience? A lot of people equate ego with ego mind. That's not quite right. Ego is you. People like Mooji are making a subtle/sneaky distinction or division there that's not quite right. Ego is best thought of as you imo -- although the ego can be seen through/understood and transcended by you to a certain but not total extent. The only way No Ego is in my experience is hearing people talk about that as if it's real. I understand the importance of doing work in No Self, but it's a specialty, it's a specific rabbit hole available on "the path", but not the final destination either. It can set up a kind of denial and shadow problem -- and that's no way to live life imo. Without self-acceptance you're always going to suffer in life. Edited April 6, 2023 by Joseph Maynor Quote Mention 💬 🗯️🤍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 6, 2023 Share Posted April 6, 2023 On 4/5/2023 at 12:28 PM, ConsciousDreamer666 said: I don't even know if 'my' perception is 'mine' Perception isn’t my perception or mine. Perception is the affect, creation… the being of… both spheres. For there to be experience for infinite being, infinite being must be ‘experience’… For there to be experience / what constitutes experience… There must appear to be somewhere experience transpires. There must be someway of experiencing… the somewhere. So infinite being be’s the somewhere-sphere and the someway-sphere. Another pointing term (like infinite being) is infinite intelligence. As infinite intelligence be’s the someway-sphere, there is an experience of finite thoughts appearing. The thoughts are for creating. The thoughts are creation. Creator-Creating-Creation is sheer perfection. You are already the perfection that Is. The creator, creating, via being, creation. The thoughts ‘me, mine, my’ appear of & as the someway-sphere. Infinite intelligence appearing as ‘finite, one-at-a-time-thoughts’ The thoughts can seem to be about a self which is separate, which has perception. To “whom” perception belongs. Infinite being is, infinite, and is already being the spheres, yet can overlook its true unconditional infinite nature… by being… the spheres… and assuming there is… “knowing”. (There there can be experiences like understanding, spiritual ego, solipsism, etc.) It can be readily noticed that knowing & not knowing, understanding & and not understanding… are dualities. Thoughts. Implied / assumed / believed ‘twoness’. Awareness of this (of the apparent duality that is actually awareness appearing) can even be used by awareness deceptively, to deceive awareness into believing there are separate selves (which is what fear & suffering experientially is) which have understanding, knowledge, etc, and thus need more… understanding, knowledge, etc. Put another way, nothing can be known about self, because self is infinite. But this doesn’t mean there can’t be a deceptive narrative about the appearance, the spheres, instead being infinite being’s way of “learning about” or “knowing about” itself, while of course infinite being is already itself, as readily as awareness is already aware… and thoughts about there being ‘things’, appear. The lens-sphere / someway-sphere can not ‘house’ infinite, as infinite being is already what is appearing as the spheres. Infinite appearing as if finite can not ‘fit’ in the apparent finite infinite is already appearing… as. Just in case that has any ‘circular’ ring to it… infinite is appearing as finite. There is not one and the other. ‘The other’ is the appearance of One. One, appearing as, two (spheres). Similarly, a magnifying glass makes it seem as if there is magnification & magnified things. How else could there be reading, if the print is too small? Likewise, how else could there be experience, as being, love… is infinite, unconditional, and eternal.) On 4/5/2023 at 12:28 PM, ConsciousDreamer666 said: What is 'me'? A belief, a thought. 🙂 And if there is any question (not to imply there is)… self inquire (‘into’ the feeling of being ‘me’). And or, do nothing… and ‘the cork’ 🤍 ‘floats’. This is simply the nature of already… appearing. On 4/5/2023 at 12:28 PM, ConsciousDreamer666 said: Therefore how can I even assume there's a self alive here? Exactly. 🙏 By believing ‘thoughts’, such as I and self. https://www.actualityofbeing.com/subject-objects-thoughts https://www.actualityofbeing.com/self-referential-thoughts On 4/5/2023 at 12:28 PM, ConsciousDreamer666 said: Let alone think or beliefs of 'other selves'? Apparent thoughts.. like thinker, believer, others, selves, etc. 🎩 ♥️ On 4/5/2023 at 12:28 PM, ConsciousDreamer666 said: Do you think it's possible to live functionally and at the same time don't even know you are alive, or even have the 'feeling' that all of 'this' is 'something'? Knowing is a dualistic belief like understanding. Aliveness (the feeling of, the spontaneity of) is nondual. It seems thought ‘hijacks’ feeling. It doesn’t, but it can seem that it does. Only obscures. Same for perception. When it seems that it does, the ‘guidance’ is felt. (Dot connecting…) Self inquiry… the feeling of being me. Words can only point. 🙏 On 4/5/2023 at 12:28 PM, ConsciousDreamer666 said: Is this the stuff of 'Not Knowing' that gurus talk about? If you will… sincere, emptied, wakefulness, as ‘gurus’, yes. Purporting wise, deception wise, egocentric wise, that there’s something you need or need to know or understand, no. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConsciousDreamer666 Posted April 6, 2023 Author Share Posted April 6, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said: Where is No Ego in your experience? Where exactly is your experience? A lot of people equate ego with ego mind. That's not quite right. Ego is you. People like Mooji are making a subtle/sneaky distinction or division there that's not quite right. Ego is best thought of as you imo -- although the ego can be seen through/understood and transcended by you to a certain but not total extent. The only way No Ego is in my experience is hearing people talk about that as if it's real. I understand the importance of doing work in No Self, but it's a specialty, it's a specific rabbit hole available on "the path", but not the final destination either. It can set up a kind of denial and shadow problem -- and that's no way to live life imo. Without self-acceptance you're always going to suffer in life. In summary, Ego is a mis-identification with thought. You don't need mis-identification, or a mistake in perception, to live life. Actually, it just makes life compulsive, mechanical, tougher, dumber. You are wrong in this. I´m not going to sugar coat it to you. Do you even take psychedelics bruh 🧐 Edited April 6, 2023 by ConsciousDreamer666 Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Maynor Posted April 6, 2023 Share Posted April 6, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, ConsciousDreamer666 said: In summary, Ego is a mis-identification with thought. You don't need mis-identification, or a mistake in perception, to live life. Actually, it just makes life compulsive, mechanical, tougher, dumber. You are wrong in this. I´m not going to sugar coat it to you. Do you even take psychedelics bruh 🧐 Hehe. I won't even defend myself here. Oh dude; Good Lord! I wish you well on your path. This is what happens when people think they have the truth. At least you're blunt about it instead of doing some elaborate dance around it to try to conceal you're doing this. Not gonna sugarcoat the centrality of self-acceptance in both development work and spiritual enlightenment work. Your move! Edited April 6, 2023 by Joseph Maynor Quote Mention 💬 🗯️🤍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConsciousDreamer666 Posted April 6, 2023 Author Share Posted April 6, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said: Hehe. I won't even defend myself here. Oh dude; Good Lord! I wish you well on your path. This is what happens when people think they have the truth. At least you're blunt about it instead of doing some elaborate dance around it to try to conceal you're doing this. Not gonna sugarcoat the centrality of self-acceptance in both development work and spiritual enlightenment work. Your move! @Joseph Maynor Bro, didn't mean to sound disrespectful. Absolutely I was joking around... Having said that I think the ego stuff its pretty clear. I don't know what is your own definition of ego but in spiritual practices we use the word ego to define the wrong identity or the mistaken identity in the mind. So understand me when I just feel 'shocked' when you say the ego is healthy or should be accepted, or etc... Edited April 6, 2023 by ConsciousDreamer666 Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted April 6, 2023 Share Posted April 6, 2023 (edited) 19 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said: The ego is you/the ego is me. This is not what is meant by "ego" in nonduality in general. Nothing wrong with having your own definitions, just pointing out for the sake of the conversation. As far as I know, in nondual practice etc. "the ego" basically means activity of thought that imply separation. This that, me you, here there. Edited April 6, 2023 by Blessed2 Quote Mention I am the playful and ever-present Source, joyfully embracing every thought and emotion as part of my perfect, unfolding co-creative dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Maynor Posted April 6, 2023 Share Posted April 6, 2023 (edited) 20 hours ago, Blessed2 said: This is not what is meant by "ego" in nonduality in general. Nothing wrong with having your own definitions, just pointing out for the sake of the conversation. As far as I know, in nondual practice etc. "the ego" basically means activity of thought that imply separation. This that, me you, here there. Ego means the self. The ego is the self. This is what is confusing you. You’ve created a technical definition so you can continue being a self while also denying you are one. Ego mind is an attempt to pin the ego on mind instead of the self. This is why you folks think no self is plausible as a final destination on the path. This a no brainer for me. You can disagree with me that’s fine, but I have a really good reason for saying what I’m saying here. It’s a little provocative, but sometimes provocative is good. I’m not saying no self is entirely bad or an invalid rabbit hole to go down as a specialty on the path — but if self-acceptance is the goal, you’ve got to take that “dirty” ego outta the shadow too and love that mofo. That’s the elephant in the room I’m eluding to. But I realize I’m preaching to the wrong choir too on this here — although all of you have an ego which is the darndest thing! Edited April 7, 2023 by Joseph Maynor Quote Mention 💬 🗯️🤍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 6, 2023 Share Posted April 6, 2023 11 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said: This is why you folks think no self is plausible as a final destination on the path. No one here believes that. Where’d you even hear that? It’s a nonsensical accusation. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Maynor Posted April 6, 2023 Share Posted April 6, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Phil said: No one here believes that. Where’d you even hear that? It’s a nonsensical accusation. Why would you use the word accusation? Did I trigger you a bit Phil? How do you know what everyone here believes? Why would no self be something bad to believe? Edited April 6, 2023 by Joseph Maynor Quote Mention 💬 🗯️🤍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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