Emotional scale - reaching for better feeling thoughts

[noomii]

I've been trying out the emotional scale for a while but I notice that often when I reach for better feeling thoughts, I don't feel the emotion that I expected to feel. Usually this happens when reaching for Contentment and higher up on the scale. It can happen lower on the scale too. If I haven't felt overwhelmed in awhile I usually don't feel anything when reaching for thoughts that I tend to feel overwhelmed about. 

I've been going the whole way up the scale two times at least, I think.

It doesn't feel genuine at all when I sit for so long trying to find thoughts that makes me feel something. A lot of times I only get a subtle better feeling when doing that but it doesn't feel authentic. 

There's a lot of confusion when reaching for thoughts about Passion. I don't have any memories about feeling passion and I don't have anything I feel passionate about right now. A few days ago I thought about how I will find what I truly feel passionate about "in the future" and that worked, not sure if it was passion I felt, or just excitement. I thought about the same thing about passion the next day, but I didn't feel the same anymore. Sometimes I've skipped one emotion, it feels better doing the scale flowing with it.

 

Maybe I've misunderstood how this actually works. 
Thank you 😊

[Phil]

@noomii

Great inquiry!

 

Though the two approaches are not ultimately separate, a distinction comes to mind, between reaching for a better feeling thought which of course can be ‘done’ (allowed) anytime… and using the scale to express the emotions, by expressing them one at a time.  That distinction might be ample, as that might be the root of the overwhelment. 

 

(For reference)

HOW TO USE THE SCALE

Choose the emotion on the scale which is experienced.

Express simply & earnestly that the emotion is experienced.

Then do the same with the next higher emotion on the scale.

*Express each emotion without skipping over any, to the top of the scale.

Feel for the subtle shift of feeling better with the expression of each emotion.

Emotion is guidance… to the experiencing of… what is wanted.
*Expression of emotions experienced is not ‘about myself’.

 

1 hour ago, noomii said:

I don't feel the emotion that I expected to feel.

Let using the scale be more about the relief felt, in the mind’s admittance that each emotion is experienced now, or is sometimes… and less, or not about, expectations being met. 

 

Consider the truth of suffering & the practice of self inquiry. Suffering is always that of a separate self, which is actually the activity of thoughts. We could say this nonexistent separate self is the “I” which expects to feel… while the Self is Feeling. 

1 hour ago, noomii said:

Usually this happens when reaching for Contentment and higher up on the scale. It can happen lower on the scale too. If I haven't felt overwhelmed in awhile I usually don't feel anything when reaching for thoughts that I tend to feel overwhelmed about. 

Keep it more simple, free & expressive by noticing how ‘sneaky’ thought, and therein the ‘separate self’ thoughts can be… in noticing how ‘it (the separate self) get’s in there’ and context is changed from the experience of an emotion, let’s say as a phenomenon, overwhelment… to about a ‘self’ in time, which is or isn’t overwhelmed. 

Awareness sometimes experiences a phenomenon, overwhelment, and sometimes does not. 

A ‘separate self’ is sometime overwhelmed. But again, this is a thought about a self (which is overwhelment). 

Also note, contentment is indicative of the true nature, of Peace, and thus Is… and when is seems Peace is not… Peace is what is appearing as… the thoughts (about a separate self, which is not Peace). Put another way, convenient arises naturally, when unobscured of the activity of thought (an I expecting). 

1 hour ago, noomii said:

I've been going the whole way up the scale two times at least, I think.

Likewise… feel the spaciousness in… I’ve been going up the scale… and… each emotion on the scale has been expressed. 

(The devil is in the details / the relief is in the subtleties.)

And also… thoughts arise… and… I think. 

(In the spirit of self inquiry here as well, find ‘the thinker’, which the thought “I think” seems to be about).  

1 hour ago, noomii said:

It doesn't feel genuine at all when I sit for so long trying to find thoughts that makes me feel something. A lot of times I only get a subtle better feeling when doing that but it doesn't feel authentic. 

This brings to mind again the distinction between the scale being a tool & helpful means for expression of our being, vs a means of getting something (expectations met). 

In getting expectations met, the “I” / ‘separate self’ is primary, or, paramount, and therein arises the confusion of the expectation of the scale thought of as ‘to make me feel something’. 

In reaching for a better thought… ‘it is good, and peaceful feeling, to sit and take the time to be, and to express the true nature of being’. 

When the “I” of “I only get a subtle better feeling” is inquired about, as in where is this “I” which this thought is about… it is noticed, realized, to be a thought, and thus as a ‘self’, illusory. The illusion of a separate self, which is in truth the believing of thoughts, and thus the recognition of inauthenticity is spot on. (A thought is not a self, or The Self. Awareness, is aware of the phenomenon of, thoughts, about a self and or The Self). 

 

1 hour ago, noomii said:

There's a lot of confusion when reaching for thoughts about Passion. I don't have any memories about feeling passion and I don't have anything I feel passionate about right now. A few days ago I thought about how I will find what I truly feel passionate about "in the future" and that worked, not sure if it was passion I felt, or just excitement. I thought about the same thing about passion the next day, but I didn't feel the same anymore. Sometimes I've skipped one emotion, it feels better doing the scale flowing with it.

 

Maybe I've misunderstood how this actually works. 
Thank you 😊

Again a call for subtle distinction, of which our being is infinitely & generously patience and encouragement for… 

In reaching for a ‘higher’ or better feeling thought, the key is allowing. ‘Reaching’ is a pointing to allowing a better feeling thought to arise, directly of, as, and in language - from - our being. 

Consider ‘reaching for thoughts about passion’… vs ‘allowing thoughts to arise, about activities… which for… passion is felt. 

Rather than looking to memories… look to possibilities. If this doesn’t naturally release the ‘blockage’, or remainder of any confusion, begin with the very bottom of the scale, and notice the correlation between jealousy, as desire felt to have, be or experience what you’ve experienced other to be experiencing… and what you want… as… what there is some passion for, more specifically. 

While there is certainly nothing ‘wrong’ with feeling excitement for passion in a future… consider also that emotion is felt, and feeling is never actually ‘in a past or future’. This can receive clarity by actually physically attempting now to go to a past or future, to experience feeling ‘there’, and then returning to share what feeling was like in a past or future. 

 

It might be worthwhile to take just a few minutes before using the scale to breathe, relax, and acknowledge I am the presence which is aware of thoughts, and aware of sensations. A new ‘dimension’ so to speak, in regard to the scale might open up. 🙂 

[nurthur11]

Hi Phil 

 

I am feeling anger, fear and disgust. How do I express this? I put attention in the emotion? Or let attention go in the emotion then I become a emotion creator monster.

 

 

Edited July 15, 2022 by nurthur11

[Phil]

@nurthur11

Start with fear on the scale, and simply express that you are experiencing that emotion. Then express the same way with the next one, and so on up the scale. Allow anything that comes to mind to come up & out as you express each emotion. For some emotions on the scale there might be very little that comes up to express, for other emotions there might be more that comes up. 

 

Remember, it’s not to solve anything, or to get anything nor to solve or figure out… it’s for well being. Essentially, it’s just for you. To let go by expressing of anything that comes up to be expressed and released, and to so to speak bring yourself back to yourself. 

 

The expression journal is there to utilize. If anything difficult arises, use the journal as a means of ‘getting it out of your head’, and as you do you’ll find more clarity, and you’ll feel better & better, and then and not before… in more clarity, better feeling more aligned thoughts will arise. 

 

After using the scale, do some self inquiry. Prompt the question - where is the one which feels the anger, fear & disgust? There is great relief in this. 

[nurthur11]

21 hours ago, Phil said:

@nurthur11

Start with fear on the scale, and simply express that you are experiencing that emotion. Then express the same way with the next one, and so on up the scale. Allow anything that comes to mind to come up & out as you express each emotion. For some emotions on the scale there might be very little that comes up to express, for other emotions there might be more that comes up. 

 

Remember, it’s not to solve anything, or to get anything nor to solve or figure out… it’s for well being. Essentially, it’s just for you. To let go by expressing of anything that comes up to be expressed and released, and to so to speak bring yourself back to yourself. 

 

The expression journal is there to utilize. If anything difficult arises, use the journal as a means of ‘getting it out of your head’, and as you do you’ll find more clarity, and you’ll feel better & better, and then and not before… in more clarity, better feeling more aligned thoughts will arise. 

 

After using the scale, do some self inquiry. Prompt the question - where is the one which feels the anger, fear & disgust? There is great relief in this. 

Thank you for your feedback. It makes much more sense. The key part for me this exercise was that it isn't about solving anything and I am already myself. For me this sentence "bring yourself back to yourself" says wtf are you doing trying to find yourself(not sure if you meant it like this). All the effort that is put to find myself I feel I do it for wanting to be loved by others.

 

I am going back to fear over and over: to detail it more I go up to contentment but it gets interrupted by fear, overwhelmed is a big one also enthusiasm but I don't like enthusiasm as much because it makes me lazy so I might be inducing fear myself.

 

In my expression journal: I fear other people - the future I have with them and the future outcomes of my work progress. 

[Phil]

21 minutes ago, nurthur11 said:

Thank you for your feedback. It makes much more sense. The key part for me this exercise was that it isn't about solving anything and I am already myself. For me this sentence "bring yourself back to yourself" says wtf are you doing trying to find yourself(not sure if you meant it like this). All the effort that is put to find myself I feel I do it for wanting to be loved by others.

Thanks you as well. 🙂

Yes. It is a withdrawing of attention from the activity of thought… which is inherently ‘more’ so to speak, pronounced feeling. 

The feeling, love, which is sought, is that from which the attention arises. Love is the source of the attention, and thus can not be ‘found’ per se, in the activity of thought(s). 

21 minutes ago, nurthur11 said:

 

I am going back to fear over and over:

to detail it more I go up to contentment but it gets interrupted by fear, overwhelmed is a big one also enthusiasm but I don't like enthusiasm as much because it makes me lazy so I might be inducing fear myself.

 

In my expression journal: I fear other people - the future I have with them and the future outcomes of my work progress. 

I have a hunch that if you express that there is an experience of the emotion, of the phenomenon, powerlessness… the ‘click’ or connecting you’re wanting to feel will occur. 

 

Be sure to go slowly, and take your time, and express each emotion up the scale. Remember this is for you, for release, for clarity, for self-understanding… and not to get anywhere or as you said, solve anything. You already are you, this exercise is just a way of releasing some entanglements of thought & feeling which have been discordant since conception, and are now arising that you may see they are ready to be let go. 

 

Also consider the ‘Mexican stand off’ situation at play. What if every one felt powerless-ness, held captive from love, by the activity of thought, of wanting to be loved by others? Some one would have to make that first move - and love another. I wager you are that one. In direct experience, thoughts arise without any effort or doing… and what happen when attention is shifted to allowing thoughts of love, about others - any one at all. Even any one you don’t know, perhaps an artist, a singer, an actor, etc. Any one. Not per se in love with, but as simple as - I loved Mathew M.’s work in Lincoln Lawyer, as an example, and then continue on, giving attention to that course of arising thoughts. Blow it up, and feel attention going to thoughts. 

 

Likewise, what happens, how do you feel, when attention is withdrawn from thoughts of fearing what other people might say or do in the future… and attention is returned to feeling… and then ‘cast’ again, on thought of resonating things you might say or do, with respect to other people, in the future? 

 

Similar to watching tv… if you didn’t care for what was on the screen… you would just change the channel. You wouldn’t be inclined or compelled to solve or figure out why you didn’t care for channel 10… you’d just change the channel to 11. That make sense with powerlessness… that the ‘key’ is, you’re the remote, you can ‘change the channel’…?

 

 

 

 

[Lotus]

@noomii

Hey!

 

Initially, I didn‘t understand the emotional scale either. After I did The Work by Byron Katie, things started clicking.

The Work helped me to understand what‘s meant by not believing thoughts.

 

The emotional scale might seem very conceptual, but it goes right at the heart of direct experience and untangling beliefs, just as Byron Katie‘s method.

 

If you want a short PDF on how to do the work, I can send it to you. 

[noomii]

@Phil

When I did the scale yesterday it felt a lot more effortless. After expressing the first emotion, I simply looked, with my eyes, at the next emotion on the scale and did nothing, subtle thoughts and feelings about that emotion naturally arose by themselves. I just allowed that to happen and were mindful of what I felt. Is that what you mean by allowing?

 

On 7/15/2022 at 4:23 PM, Phil said:

Consider ‘reaching for thoughts about passion’… vs ‘allowing thoughts to arise, about activities… which for… passion is felt. 

Rather than looking to memories… look to possibilities.

Look to possibilities, do you mean this as something I can do actively in my mind like... actively look for activities in the mind/thoughts, that have the possibility to make me feel passion? If so, that's what I've done with no success (not allowing it to naturally arise by itself). 

 

Still a bit confused about what to do if no thoughts or sensations comes up naturally by themselves. If I want to let this be a practice of allowing, I can see how I could simply notice what is already felt in me in that moment and notice if a different emotion comes up instead, like frustration or jealousy.

Maybe "actively" looking for better feeling thoughts can still be useful here if done in a gentle way?

Btw no passion felt yesterday... looking forward to feelin' it! 😊

 

 

Thank you so much Phil.

[Phil]

1 minute ago, noomii said:

When I did the scale yesterday it felt a lot more effortless. After expressing the first emotion, I simply looked, with my eyes, at the next emotion on the scale and did nothing, subtle thoughts and feelings about that emotion naturally arose by themselves. I just allowed that to happen and were mindful of what I felt. Is that what you mean by allowing?

😌 Yep. Beautiful. 

2 minutes ago, noomii said:

Look to possibilities, do you mean this as something I can do actively in my mind like... actively look for activities in the mind/thoughts, that have the possibility to make me feel passion? If so, that's what I've done with no success (not allowing it to naturally arise by itself). 

Put the emphasis on the activities, interests, stuff, anything which you like. Write any of that (what you like) which comes to mind on the dreamboard. 

Let expectation to feel passion go… enjoy the activity of writing what you like on your dreamboard. 

2 minutes ago, noomii said:

 

Still a bit confused about what to do if no thoughts or sensations comes up naturally by themselves.

Allow that thought to come and go. 

‘They’ do. 

Even thoughts about that they don’t - also arise effortlessly. 

2 minutes ago, noomii said:

If I want to let this be a practice of allowing, I can see how I could simply notice what is already felt in me in that moment and notice if a different emotion comes up instead, like frustration or jealousy.

Maybe "actively" looking for better feeling thoughts can still be useful here if done in a gentle way?

Yes! Very nice! 

2 minutes ago, noomii said:

Btw no passion felt yesterday... looking forward to feelin' it! 😊

I like the framing of ‘you & You’, which is the same as ‘you & your inner being’…

you: “I’ll relax, and allow…”

your inner being: “☺️awesome… and here you go”

[noomii]

On 7/15/2022 at 4:23 PM, Phil said:

Consider the truth of suffering & the practice of self inquiry. Suffering is always that of a separate self, which is actually the activity of thoughts. We could say this nonexistent separate self is the “I” which expects to feel… while the Self is Feeling. 

Feels like the next practice!

 

28 minutes ago, Lotus said:

@noomii

Hey!

 

Initially, I didn‘t understand the emotional scale either. After I did The Work by Byron Katie, things started clicking.

The Work helped me to understand what‘s meant by not believing thoughts.

 

The emotional scale might seem very conceptual, but it goes right at the heart of direct experience and untangling beliefs, just as Byron Katie‘s method.

 

If you want a short PDF on how to do the work, I can send it to you. 

 

Hi! Feel free to send me it. I've heard of it but never actually tried it for different reasons. Thanks 😊

[Lotus]

Just now, noomii said:

Feels like the next practice!

 

Lmao! The Work by Byron Katie is self-inquiry! That's a fit. 😂

[Phil]

Hope I’m not ‘butting in’… just wanted to point out there’s also a thread about this where we can discuss and help each other out with The Work here too…

 

[noomii]

2 hours ago, Lotus said:

Lmao! The Work by Byron Katie is self-inquiry! That's a fit. 😂

 

I find it hard at the moment to inspect thoughts in a more focused way like The work (not yet read it fully through though) or any contemplation. I question thoughts spontaneously in a gentle way just to notice the thought is probably not true. I want more questioning when it feels easier to do so.

Hard to explain but it's as if the "mind" is closed off, hard to read, focus (I mean focus that easily trigger tension in the head. The focus that happen in meditation is relaxed and good!) or do anything actively/with effort with my mind. I can, but it takes a lot more time and effort. But it's not like I will wait for that to resolve before I question thoughts. 

Practices that help me focus more on feeling is good at the moment. 

This self inquiry on the other hand seem to involve less thought activity. I've been thinking I'm not yet "ready" for it, that's probably just a distraction.

Edited July 17, 2022 by noomii

[nurthur11]

On 7/16/2022 at 6:57 PM, Phil said:

Thanks you as well. 🙂

Yes. It is a withdrawing of attention from the activity of thought… which is inherently ‘more’ so to speak, pronounced feeling. 

The feeling, love, which is sought, is that from which the attention arises. Love is the source of the attention, and thus can not be ‘found’ per se, in the activity of thought(s). 

I have a hunch that if you express that there is an experience of the emotion, of the phenomenon, powerlessness… the ‘click’ or connecting you’re wanting to feel will occur. 

 

Be sure to go slowly, and take your time, and express each emotion up the scale. Remember this is for you, for release, for clarity, for self-understanding… and not to get anywhere or as you said, solve anything. You already are you, this exercise is just a way of releasing some entanglements of thought & feeling which have been discordant since conception, and are now arising that you may see they are ready to be let go. 

 

Also consider the ‘Mexican stand off’ situation at play. What if every one felt powerless-ness, held captive from love, by the activity of thought, of wanting to be loved by others? Some one would have to make that first move - and love another. I wager you are that one. In direct experience, thoughts arise without any effort or doing… and what happen when attention is shifted to allowing thoughts of love, about others - any one at all. Even any one you don’t know, perhaps an artist, a singer, an actor, etc. Any one. Not per se in love with, but as simple as - I loved Mathew M.’s work in Lincoln Lawyer, as an example, and then continue on, giving attention to that course of arising thoughts. Blow it up, and feel attention going to thoughts. 

 

Likewise, what happens, how do you feel, when attention is withdrawn from thoughts of fearing what other people might say or do in the future… and attention is returned to feeling… and then ‘cast’ again, on thought of resonating things you might say or do, with respect to other people, in the future? 

 

Similar to watching tv… if you didn’t care for what was on the screen… you would just change the channel. You wouldn’t be inclined or compelled to solve or figure out why you didn’t care for channel 10… you’d just change the channel to 11. That make sense with powerlessness… that the ‘key’ is, you’re the remote, you can ‘change the channel’…?

 

 

 

 

 

Very on point with the powerlessness emotion's or I would say event. To identify it I tried to see moments in which I have negative thoughts about myself or others. Obviously, that didn't work ! Then I let go of trying and just rest in the moment. While I was observing the content so to speak of this event. It consist a lot of trying to be better or being afraid that I will lose people, being needy, it also feels like I can morph(change the channel but this is harder to notice) also dissociating from reality(connection came back first). It is very easy to fall back into this emotion, or allow my life to get driven by this emotion - but now I know more clearly what I can let go or just try and get better at whatever I want to do or just forgive myself for not being good enough at everything I want to be. The clarity didn't last for long but I am optimistic It becomes better.

 

The attention during hopelessness it is forced inside morph(the state, its 10 I make it 11 so to speak) bubble. When I let this event occur I also as a side effect the attention is left by itself. This has made even more clear to me that attention has its own rhythm and I feel best in when I leave it this way. Knowing is build on its own rhythm to illustrate it. I find it best for me to function in this rhythm, meaning in relation what behavior I don't want to see in  myself. Does this make sense?

 

 

Edited July 18, 2022 by nurthur11

[Phil]

@nurthur11

Yes, totally makes sense. Awesome! Does this make sense?…

… when it comes to that ‘channel changing’… it’s like a recognition ‘ok, this isn’t the the channel I want’… then there’s letting that channel go, a few minutes or so… … … … … and then … … … the channel I do want. 

[nurthur11]

3 hours ago, Phil said:

@nurthur11

Yes, totally makes sense. Awesome! Does this make sense?…

… when it comes to that ‘channel changing’… it’s like a recognition ‘ok, this isn’t the the channel I want’… then there’s letting that channel go, a few minutes or so… … … … … and then … … … the channel I do want. 

Yes. Currently feeling like this. Sadge life.

[nurthur11]

The channel I want is build on itself by itself. It feels aligned. Like the exercise with hopelessness - its not really "channel finding". But if I lose it is not that I can get it back that easily- I just cope with it. I try to catch the moment or trust and allow myself to merge with presence, the worst part is that by that point it's fixed I am behind from what has happened. 
 

To clarify more - I would define <channel>: how I experience reality. There is basically a channel which feels like I am a bubble thinking what to do next and how to relate and one that is aligned. The bubble channel(mby more relatable) has like mini channels but they all are similarly bad to some extend.

Edited July 19, 2022 by nurthur11

[Phil]

1 hour ago, nurthur11 said:

The channel I want is build on itself by itself. It feels aligned. Like the exercise with hopelessness - its not really "channel finding". But if I lose it is not that I can get it back that easily- I just cope with it. I try to catch the moment or trust and allow myself to merge with presence, the worst part is that by that point it's fixed I am behind from what has happened. 

But ‘changing the channel’ would be not ‘staying on the ‘lose’ channel / not believing that framing, which would mean not being fixed, and therefore not perceiving as if behind. The ‘other channel’ would be understanding what you actually gained & that you did. The very ‘changing of the channel’ in & of itself would be dynamic and not fixed, resulting in perceiving in alignment with that you are actually ahead. 

1 hour ago, nurthur11 said:

 

To clarify more - I would define <channel>: how I experience reality. There is basically a channel which feels like I am a bubble thinking what to do next and how to relate and one that is aligned. The bubble channel(mby more relatable) has like mini channels but they all are similarly bad to some extend.

I would say it’s how one interprets and or perceives. That there are ‘bad channels’ is but one channel. 🙂

 

[Joseph Maynor]

I think the problem with reaching for better emotions is this turns into ego.  One has to get comfortable with all states of emotion to be Married to the Whole.  Human joy is not Divine Bliss.  I'm not saying it's bad to want more pleasant experiences, but this is privileging order over chaos in that duality too.  The Divine is able to find joy despite the ups and downs of what the ego finds pleasant or not.  That's one of the huge benefits of integrating the Divine.  You can hold the Whole together despite the multitude of discordant parts and still maintain an okayness -- some people call this bliss but I think that's somewhat of an overstatement.  It's an okayness, an allowing.  The Whole contains every perspective.

Edited February 19 by Joseph Maynor

[Inno]

13 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I think the problem with reaching for better emotions is this turns into ego.  One has to get comfortable with all states of emotion to be Married to the Whole.  Human joy is not Divine Bliss.  I'm not saying it's bad to want more pleasant experiences, but this is privileging order over chaos in that duality too.  The Divine is able to find joy despite the ups and downs of what the ego finds pleasant or not.  That's one of the huge benefits of integrating the Divine.  You can hold the Whole together despite the multitude of discordant parts and still maintain an okayness -- some people call this bliss but I think that's somewhat of an overstatement.  It's an okayness, an allowing.  The Whole contains every perspective.

Where is this Divine Bliss you're talking about? Never seen, heard, tasted, touched or smelled it myself. How is it different than "Human joy"?