My thoughts of Leo and actualize.org. What do you think?

[Phil]

7 minutes ago, Ges said:

 

@Phil Masculine love, you might say.

With respect for you, and to the guidelines & your continued participation, and not what I might think or what I might say, this is the third request for you to explain exactly what you meant by this comment. 

52 minutes ago, Ges said:

You haven't seen anything yet. It's just an introduction.

What are you specifically implying ‘will be seen’?

[Ges]

@Phil I have already explained myself here:

 

10 minutes ago, Ges said:

 

Actually quite the opposite. I meant it in the most encouraging way possible.

Like, when a girl rejects a guy, you don't tell him to stop approaching, but to do the opposite. It's nothing, really.

 

Another way to say it is that shit happens. But I was being polite.

[Ges]

I probably should have used an emoji or something to make it sound a little bit lighter.

 

So here you go:

You haven't seen anything yet. It's just an introduction 😄

[Ges]

8 minutes ago, WhiteOwl said:

I remember you ranting a lot of awful stuff about the people who left this site, on a thread on the other forum. Pretty sure that was you.

 

Excuse me?!I have no idea who left this site.

[Faith]

1 hour ago, Ges said:

 

You haven't seen anything yet. It's just an introduction.

 

I also don't know what this means?🤷‍♀️

 

At first, I thought it was regarding Phil's comment about working with the public and you saying, "you havent seen anything yet" and this being "just an introduction" was because this forum is new, but then that didn't makes sense because as you know Phil was on the other forum as a mod for many years. So. Why would this be much different. What would make you say your comments?

 

Perhaps you think your being clear on your explanations since then when Phil has asked you to clarify, but you really aren't. They are rather ambiguous and so can you please rephrase your comment in such a way that it can be easily understood?

 

Thanks 

[Ges]

2 minutes ago, Faith said:

 

I also don't know what this means?🤷‍♀️

 

At first, I thought it was regarding Phil's comment about working with the public and you saying, "you havent seen anything yet" and this being "just an introduction" was because this forum is new,

 

That's it. The rest is overthinking it.

 

2 minutes ago, Faith said:

but then that didn't makes sense because as you know Phil was on the other forum as a mod for many years. So. Why would this be much different.

 

I don't know why this would be much different. Maybe ask him.

 

[Ges]

All of you guys seem to believe that I'm some sort of a "bad guy", maybe even "The bad guy", and so you assume the worst about me.

It's fine. I don't care. Carry on.

[Robed Mystic]

2 hours ago, Ges said:

All of you guys seem to believe that I'm some sort of a "bad guy", maybe even "The bad guy", and so you assume the worst about me.

It's fine. I don't care. Carry on.

You can come to the Dark side if you wish. 😀  you will be given a high ranking - right under Vader and myself.

Edited April 17, 2022 by Robed Mystic

[Aware Wolf]

13 hours ago, DMT Elf said:

 

I had to look up the moth metaphor. A bit cheesy, I agree. 😂 Honestly though Leo seems pretty transparent about how his video topics are all well covered territory. I doesn't bother me because I like the way he explains things. I think he's highly articulate and makes everything easy to understand and he packages material in a satisfying way.

 

The part that seems strange is how he makes grandiose unverifiable claims about himself and gives his mods the boot for disagreeing with him. That part is a big turnoff and feels cult like.

 

What books/resources/teachers would you recommend instead of actualized.org? It's not like I'm attached to Leo or actualized.org. If there are better resources available, I want to know about them.

 

I haven't read this entire thread, but what's the moth metaphor ? I googled, but no good clear hits.

 

For books/resources/teachers etc -- it depends on what you want and where you're at. But for a lot of nondualists, you can't go wrong with Ramana and Nisargadatta. Take a look at Samaneri Jayasara Youtube Channel which has a large collection of audio readings from great masters from great wisdom traditions. Simply superb. I don't think there a better collection of direct pointing out instructions and pointers to the Absolute elsewhere that I"ve seen. 

 

For modern teachers, I like to listen to Adyashanti, Rupert Spira, Joseph Goldstein, Jack Kornfield, Swami Sarvapriyananda, Ram Das. 

 

 

[Annie]

Some heated comments on the other site... it reminds me of scientology where if you leave, then everyone you know gets pissed off.
There can be two forums - it is seriously not a big deal.  Nothing is going to happen to the original forum, it is still quite active and people often times have their own reasons for leaving - Leo aside - sometimes people just grow away from things and it doesn't have to have a reason or anything - you know?

There is enough room in this world for two forums like this, the main problem is people thinking it has to be either or instead of both.

 

My advice is not to get so attached to places, to forums, and not to worry about what other people are doing with themselves, there could be many reasons why people choose to leave.  In my case, I simply had to many issues with my ego that I was trying to dissolve, I went through a breakdown and used the forum to try to stabilize myself and my problems just became to known and I decided that the best thing to do was to start over with an attitude that I want to portray in mind that is more in line with who I am most days.

 

Sometimes people and places get to familiar, you work through some shit, and then you gotta move on.  Seeing the same people day in day out after having ego breakdowns, it just didn't seem like I should be there anymore.  It became a baggage forum, and that's not what it was meant for, either.

 

So, I'm saying all this to say, that we aren't trying to turn people against one another - this isn't a forum vs forum.  We are all one community.  So there's two forums, we can still act as one community and work together instead of having two factions fighting.  People have their individual reasons for why they move on, you can't hold onto a community and keep it the same forever, it's always going to evolve in one way or another.

 

Personally, I am not against Actualized, I love the work Leo does and wish him the best, but my awakenings simple don't align with what is being taught and I find that the difference is actually making it hard to work on my own unique path with authenticity because people there seem to all want to be the teacher.  I tend to work solo and just pick up what I need, but so many people there are not on authentic paths - they're just following Leo, and there's so much out there - it doesn't work, you need a multitude of sources to combine for the best of all worlds.  I don't see people doing that, and so when I ask for advice or give a different point of view it is picked apart and not integrated - because it doesn't mesh with Leo's teachings.

 

Y'all need to learn to think for yourselves, to inquire authentically, some do, but many don't and... I don't know, a fresh start just seemed right up my alley.

But we are one community, and we don't have to fight.  It don't gotta be like that, yo.

But also, no one is allowed to critique Leo without his followers chiming in, like... the student 'has' to critique the teacher, that's how we all learn and things don't get stale - if everyone was infallible that would be great, but we aren't, we are human beings and we are fallible and everyone has room to grow.  If something like this was made about me - I would have a lot to learn from, it would be great.  I wouldn't object.  But maybe that's just me, when I face critique I just go through what is true and what doesn't feel true and integrate what the critique says; with a little bit of defensiveness, but I'm still open minded enough to allow different pov's.  I think Leo needs to get away from the echo chamber he's built.  Just have the mods take care of the forum, take a break for a few months and stay off the drugs for a while and just integrate this shadow he's got.  And then professionalize his approach on the forum.

 

This change to professionalism would have a lot of good affect on the people there too who don't think for themselves, they could see a role model in action.  Just my two cents.  I hate seeing that people over there think there can't be two places to hang out - to work on ourselves in - and that it has to be either or.  It can be both.  And without malice or feeling like a person has "betrayed the forum" in some way.  Instead, view us all as individuals who each have our own reasons for being here, of which the reasons are legitimate.  The less "here or there" this is, the more integrated both places will be.  That's what we should strive for.

 

[Ges]

2 hours ago, DMT Elf said:

You picked up a reputation, bruh. 

 

Hmmm, reputation. Doesn't sound like an enlightened concept 🤭

[Ges]

28 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

You can come to the Dark side if you wish. 😀  you will be given a high ranking - right under Vader and myself.

 

Only problem is that I'm probably ranked very highly even on the dark side 😅

[Ges]

19 minutes ago, DMT Elf said:

@Ges  don't do that, man. You'll basically be Tarkin, so you won't even have the force. 

Bad deal.

 

Tarkin is a too specific reference for someone that hasn't watched any of the Star Wars movies.

[Aware Wolf]

14 minutes ago, DMT Elf said:

 

Thanks! Some of those I know, and some I don't. I'll definitely check out more of what you listed. 

 

Here's the moth metaphor.

 

 

Thank you. 

 

Most teachers I an just listen to and enjoy. 

 

Then there's teachers I yell stuff at the screen. This is Leo. 

 

"I've got the perfect model for enlightenment for you"

 

No. 

 

The whole moth analogy doesn't work for me. The moths are DELUDEED  by the lamp because they evolved to follow the moon at night. The moths aren't trying to get to a lamp. They don't know what a lamp is. Lamp equals death for tons of moths. The moths out in darkness, are not the unlucky ones, as Leo says. They are in fact, the lucky ones. The moths won't get nowhere nice following a lamp. Maybe Leo Gura and other Internet Arahants like Daniel ingram, Frank Yang, Bentinho Massaro are lamps of delusion in this metaphor. 

 

"It's going to happen by magic"

 

No, again, This is so bad, it's not even wrong, 

 

There is no lamp. There is no window, There is no Gate. 

 

"The moth is the Light...." wtf .... how? How are moths the light? A moth is a moth. Is Leo using a metaphor within a metaphor?? FFS

 

I could go on. I could probably write an essay here. But I"d have to watch it more than once. Why bother? There's parts that are okay here, but also trivialities, and nondual platitudes. There's contradictions as when Leo says "There's no way to get there", yet he says "Self Inquiry" is the way to get there. 

 

 

[Ges]

22 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

If you were awake Phil, you would see that feedback before anyone said it to you.  You would acknowledge the egoic shadow side of things instead of pretending they don't apply to you.  That's what I picked up on right away and said to myself -- this is why I can't be on anyone else's community for very long.  Once I start to unpack the teacher and that doesn't go well, there's nowhere else for me to go but out.  I'm not a huge fan of people who hold themselves out as spiritual teachers because I think it's pretending.  The convoluted language is pretending too.  If you have something to say to someone, you can always find a way to say it clearly.  So, when someone seems to always speak with a kind of mumbo-jumbo that tells me (1) they don't know what they're talking about, (2) they really don't want you to know what they're talking about, or (3) they're trying to give themselves a superficial air of spiritual-ness.  So, I see you and Leo Gura kind of playing the same game with the spiritual teacher schtick, and that's fine, but I'm not doing that in my work.

 

I'm going to tell you why this is true.  The secret to spiritual enlightenment is only to be found in you.  Period.  There's no teacher but you. 

 

This is gold! And it is what I actually like the most about you, man. I am not even a philosophy student, nor do I read philosophy books or anything like that. But in your videos, you make it sound super easy, it's all clear and understandable. You give me clarity. Every time I watch a video of yours, I notice that I gain some more clarity. The same happens every time I read one of your posts. I think you should market yourself some more to gain more audience, because the value you provide is enormous, imo.

Edited April 17, 2022 by Ges

[Ges]

4 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I did 5-MeO-DMT for the first time a day or two ago just to see wtf Leo Gura has been yammering about for so long using all his terminology.  Here's the trip report.
 

 

 

Insta-watching!!!!!!!

[Phil]

52 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

If you were awake Phil, you would see that feedback before anyone said it to you. 

Seeing feedback, prior to the feedback transpiring? Do you mean like precognition, clairvoyance or something along those lines?

52 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

You would acknowledge the egoic shadow side of things instead of pretending they don't apply to you.  That's what I picked up on right away and said to myself -- this is why I can't be on anyone else's community for very long.  Once I start to unpack the teacher and that doesn't go well, there's nowhere else for me to go but out.  I'm not a huge fan of people who hold themselves out as spiritual teachers because I think it's pretending.  The convoluted language is pretending too.  If you have something to say to someone, you can always find a way to say it clearly.  So, when someone seems to always speak with a kind of mumbo-jumbo that tells me (1) they don't know what they're talking about, (2) they really don't want you to know what they're talking about, or (3) they're trying to give themselves a superficial air of spiritual-ness.  So, I see you and Leo Gura kind of playing the same game with the spiritual teacher schtick, and that's fine, but I'm not doing that in my work.

There aren’t people who are awake and people who aren’t. You’re welcome here. I’m not a teacher. 

52 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

I'm going to tell you why this is true.  The secret to spiritual enlightenment is only to be found in you.  Period.  There's no teacher but you. 

Right on. 

[Ges]

44 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I did 5-MeO-DMT for the first time a day or two ago just to see wtf Leo Gura has been yammering about for so long using all his terminology.  Here's the trip report.
 

 

 

I think I have had a milder version of this experience a couple of times during prolonged meditation sessions. Lost the sense of "I" and became the surroundings, so basically awareness. Though, I didn't experience this shock state that feels like a vegetative state. But it was clear that I was not here in the middle of the experience, behind the eyes, nor really anywhere.

[Jonas Long]

21 hours ago, Aware Wolf said:

 

Osho is my favorite bad boy guru.

 

Osho is S Tier (highet). Leo is Tier F (lowest).

 

Osho was a philosophy professor. I don't know -- did Leo even graduate?

 

Osho had some good teachings, wrote many books. How many books has Leo written? I like Osho's three C's: Consciousness, Compassion, and Creativity. I also think his Free Sex was brilliant. Osho had Sheela who was ruthless in achieving goals. 

 

I think a better comparison for Leo is Bentinho Massaro. Bentinho has a center now, girlfriends, and seems to be bringing in the dough. So maybe Leo could make it as a cult leader. People aren't so discerning for gurus. See the documentary "Kumare" about an Indian - American guy who fakes being a guru and starts getting students. Hear all the people talk about the "guru bliss" they feel with him. 

...osho wrote zero books.  They are just transcripts of his speeches.  But leo won't even have that it's true. 

[Jonas Long]

Oops did I just repost that?

What I meant to say is

This thread has got me back!

Lol