Considering Becoming a Monk

[Orb]

Been considering this heavily lately. 

 

All the stuff I have on my dreamboard is really just to escape how I'm feeling right now, but to actually pursue the things on my dreamboard feels just as awful as the feeling of desperation to escape my current situation. 

 

To put it simply, I feel cornered because I'm just not into pursuing "material" things. 

 

I have no real things that charge me up, like I don't have anything that I actually want to pursue, otherwise I'd be doing them already. 

 

Sure I want sex, money, success, etc. But those desires pale in comparison to just being at peace, I don't wanna meditate for 30 minutes in the morning only to pay bills and work in my office job. 

 

Just felt like venting/sharing this here. 

 

So right now I'm choosing between sex, money, awesomeness VS. Being a simple monk meditating all day just pouring into my passion for transcendence without dealing with the human bs.

Edited May 1, 2022 by Orb

[Iesu]

@Orb  There are benefits to both. But I honestly feel you too bro. Leo once said the most woke guy is some dude in a cave off the grid. So who knows you could be the next cave guy. Lol 

[Joseph Maynor]

You can become a monk as part of everything you do. If you come from a place of deficiency, you'll feel like you have to renounce everything to become a monk. You're trying to empty and reset yourself. But, if you're coming from a place of abundance, you'll realize you can be a monk in everything you do. In Zen monasteries people graduate and live life. It's only some that choose to stay behind, and not all of those are a Zen Master or proper teacher. The teaching should be you can be a monk in everyday life. You can be a monk in integrating every stage on the spiral.  The teaching from my perspective that is.  And I'm fine with being disagreed with and engaging in discussion on this issue.  I realize we probably all think differently -- as a regular feature of how I live my life

Edited May 1, 2022 by Joseph Maynor

[Faith]

https://belurmath.org/faq/faqs-on-joining-the-ramakrishna-order/

 

Here's a link to questions related to becoming a monk in the Vedanta Ramakrishna order. I assume they are all a bit similar. You must renounce everything, including family and friends. Also, it's not just meditating all day, it's a life of service to others as well. 

 

[Mandy]

"Choosing between"... can you do this? Is there a between? What if right now is already having your cake and eating it too?

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Orb said:

Been considering this heavily lately. 

 

All the stuff I have on my dreamboard is really just to escape how I'm feeling right now,

I’d then erase it entirely & consider there was a misunderstanding.

What you want = what feels good to you = what is suggested to be written on your board. Only that. 

1 hour ago, Orb said:

but to actually pursue the things on my dreamboard feels just as awful as the feeling of desperation to escape my current situation. 

It’s not a Pursueboard or an Escapeboard. 🙂 

How does allowing & receiving feel by comparison in terms of how it’s framed up? 

Might be a misunderstanding there as well. 

Puttin the ‘weight of the world’ on yourself?

Thinkin all kinds of change has to happen pronto maybe? 

 

Hopefully it’s helpful, relieving, not trying to poke or prod…. aweful and desperation are claimed here to be feeling. They aren’t. These are concepts… which don’t feel good to you… because these concepts are about you… and are not indicative of you. These concepts are what doesn’t feel good. These ways of thinking about yourself. 

 

Question the thoughts which essentially are ‘my current situation’. Question if these thoughts are true. Look to perception, see if it’s true. 

It might very well be that your current situation is perfectly fine, perfectly peaceful, and the discord, the suffering is going unacknowledged and unaddressed, and possibly, spiritual bypassing is transpiring. 

1 hour ago, Orb said:

 

To put it simply, I feel cornered because I'm just not into pursuing "material" things. 

No one is. No one would ever be. That’s what spirituality, as investigation, as questioning the truth of thoughts, and therefore seeing through, transcending suffering, is all about. Not avoiding or escaping anything. The ‘cosmic joke’, is you are what peace is. With investigating, including and foremost investigating the resistance, avoiding, escaping… the ‘punchline’… is Peace was present all along, but was obscured by suffering, obscured by un-inspected beliefs. Again, namely, about being a ‘separate self’. 

1 hour ago, Orb said:

 

I have no real things that charge me up, like I don't have anything that I actually want to pursue, otherwise I'd be doing them already. 

Question if this is true. I suggest, I very, very much wager, it is not. It only seems so, in ignorance, in ignoring that the investigating isn’t happening. A blind eye is being turned to the ‘me pursing’. For reference, the opposite, is attracting, or, the law of attraction, and this requires some inspection. 

1 hour ago, Orb said:

 

Sure I want sex, money, success, etc. But those desires pale in comparison to just being at peace, I don't wanna meditate for 30 minutes in the morning only to pay bills and work in my office job. 

A formless infinite being eternally at peace would inevitably appear as other than a formless infinite eternal being infinitely at peace. Aka, experience. And here we are. 

1 hour ago, Orb said:

 

Just felt like venting/sharing this here. 

 

So right now I'm choosing between sex, money, awesomeness VS. Being a simple monk meditating all day just pouring into my passion for transcendence without dealing with the human bs.

 

Well (and you know I love ya) stop “just venting”. Investigate. Question. Inspect. Keep expressing! 🙏🏻 

 

Do you believe “being a monk” is being other than what you already are? 

Do you belief “becoming a monk” equates to everything just magically working itself out? 

 

Honestly, it might. But just as well, as This Peace, as desire is-that-you-are being Experience… perhaps any uninspected desires & thoughts would be there just the same, until addressed. 

 

But, nonetheless, while it sounds extreme to me, and sounds like becoming a monk is the escape, of course, choose the path of least resistance. 

 

Just more ‘two cents’… 

The desire for peace is not natural. 

Investigating the thoughts, discovering you are this peace, and in kind, dreaming accordingly, is quite natural. 

When the universe gives me the lesson of letting go of discord - should I listen, or escape?

On this path, the desire for independence, freedom, autonomy, sovereignty, have been and are found to be natural. 

Resistance, non-inspection of suffering, non-admittance of the truth of suffering… not so much. 

 

Peace is only seemingly obscured by the very activity of Peace - which we refer to as thoughts, or the activity of thoughts. 

 

 

[Orb]

@Iesu hopefully, I don't even know if enlightenment is real or not, i never will honestly.

 

@Joseph Maynor I'm not interested in doing anything really, I find no use for myself. I held on longer because I believed maybe spirituality would give me something to shoot for but Im disillusioned on the matter now. I don't want to live in this world, the realities of life are too much to bear, even with meditative practices. 

 

@Faith thanks, if I'm feeling up for it I'll go deeper into that.

 

@Mandy i dont see any in between, im bored by everything in life, ive explored many different possibilities of what i could do with my life and honestly none of them are interesting to me. For me I just want enlightenment, I don't care to do work or service to others. If my service is coming out of a belief system and not the truth them I'm only fooling them into thinking that there is hope. 

 

If there's no enlightenment then I am not interested at all. I'm tired of working a computer job all day, eating junk food, doing drugs, and deluding myself into thinking I've awakened to some great insight just because of some spiritual experience. 

 

I'm disillusioned from everything, I've deluded myself. Thought I was taming the ox, truth is I'm depressed and have nothing to live for, and I was in a virtual reality world where everything is love, I've taken off the headset. Either enlightenment NOW, in the same way that I have my coffee and I wake up NOW, or I call bullshit, I'm sorry.

[Mandy]

@Orb Is there an "either in NOW"? Or is now already without conflict or delusion or selves that could be deluded in past/future...etc?

[Orb]

16 minutes ago, Phil said:

Question the thoughts which essentially are ‘my current situation’. Question if these thoughts are true. Look to perception, see if it’s true. 

It might very well be that your current situation is perfectly fine, perfectly peaceful, and the discord, the suffering is going unacknowledged and unaddressed, and possibly, spiritual bypassing is transpiring. 

@Phil The current situation is drug use, complete laziness/unwillingness to get anything done and depression. In direct excperience its just that, i dont see how anything is already fine, I have bills to pay and i have 0 certainty if I will even have a job a few months from now. What if I was born because Peace wanted to manifest as depression and failure?  Why do we assume that there has to be a good ending?

 

21 minutes ago, Phil said:

Question if this is true. I suggest, I very, very much wager, it is not. It only seems so, in ignorance, in ignoring that the investigating isn’t happening. A blind eye is being turned to the ‘me pursing’. For reference, the opposite, is attracting, or, the law of attraction, and this requires some inspection. 

A formless infinite being eternally at peace would inevitably appear as other than a formless infinite eternal being infinitely at peace. Aka, experience. And here we are. 

I like music, I wanna make music, I have ideas for songs and stuff but im extremely embarrassed to share it with ANYONE! Hell I dont even like sharing the music I listen to with my own friends. I only shared some songs here because no one here actually sees me, im just words on a screen here. 

 

I dont know how to sing, play an instrument, im super embarrassed. I just like music and wanna make some, I will admit I have suppressed that desire, but I dont wanna do all the work to make music. I dont even know if im being honest about wanting to make music, that might just be another bullshit hit of novelty that will wear off. That always happens, I get euphoria by deciding im gonna do something, then the novelty wears off and I dont care for it anymore. 

 

Then having to tell my mom that I wanna make music, shes just gonna think this is another bullshit novelty hit thats gonna wear off, it doesnt make any money.

 

27 minutes ago, Phil said:

Do you believe “being a monk” is being other than what you already are? 

Do you belief “becoming a monk” equates to everything just magically working itself out? 

 

I think being a monk means I can focus on getting enlightened without having to do any work, pay bills, put up with boring stuff (which is basically everything included in adulting).

 

Im embarrased, im freaking out like a kid here and im a grown ass man. 

[Phil]

5 hours ago, Orb said:

@Phil The current situation is drug use, complete laziness/unwillingness to get anything done and depression. In direct excperience its just that, i dont see how anything is already fine, I have bills to pay and i have 0 certainty if I will even have a job a few months from now. What if I was born because Peace wanted to manifest as depression and failure?  Why do we assume that there has to be a good ending?

This is the admittance of the truth of suffering. Imo that’s great. 

Next, the recognition (to put it plainly) you’re lost in the activity of thought, and ‘spiraling’, ‘spider webbing’… and the universe is teaching you so. 

You arise of Love, as Love, and “return to” Love. Good as in Goodness is not the assumption at play here. Anything and everything else is. This is why it feels good when you meditate. Because this (‘issue’) now, is the experience of thought attachment. Relax. Breathe. Don’t ‘go to’ gloom & doom giving up town. Be where you are, ‘go to’ perception and feeling, letting ‘solving’ go. It’s ok to. It’s what the universe teaches. Doing so allows the insights, ideas, and therein the way forward, to arise. 

5 hours ago, Orb said:

 

I like music, I wanna make music, I have ideas for songs and stuff but im extremely embarrassed to share it with ANYONE! Hell I dont even like sharing the music I listen to with my own friends. I only shared some songs here because no one here actually sees me, im just words on a screen here. 

Inspect self referential judgmental thoughts. Aka, the suffering. Not right now though. Right now just breath and relax and ‘give it to God’. 

5 hours ago, Orb said:

 

I dont know how to sing, play an instrument, im super embarrassed. I just like music and wanna make some, I will admit I have suppressed that desire, but I dont wanna do all the work to make music. I dont even know if im being honest about wanting to make music, that might just be another bullshit hit of novelty that will wear off. That always happens, I get euphoria by deciding im gonna do something, then the novelty wears off and I dont care for it anymore. 

 

Then having to tell my mom that I wanna make music, shes just gonna think this is another bullshit novelty hit thats gonna wear off, it doesnt make any money.

 

 

I think being a monk means I can focus on getting enlightened without having to do any work, pay bills, put up with boring stuff (which is basically everything included in adulting).

 

Im embarrased, im freaking out like a kid here and im a grown ass man. 

Enjoy one step at a time. Meditation (not my favorite word but) disciplines the wandering mind. 

[Orb]

@Mandy now is without conflict, but now there's no motivation for anything, so should I just let everything unravel into madness? 

 

@Phil why doesn't meditation feel good just like a cup of coffee? When I wake up I want to have coffee because I know 100% that it will wake me up and feel good. I don't have that conviction with any spiritual practice or model and I've been involved with those for years. 

 

If meditation worked the first time years ago wouldn't I be addicted to it? Just like how I KNOW coffee will feel good so I drink it everyday? 

 

And I'll try to calm down, my mind goes so quick into self sabotage mode because I'm so overwhelmed, I just wanna eat junk food and do drugs.

[Phil]

@Orb

Inspection of assumptions is what’s missing. 

 

[Winter]

Sounds to me like you want to meditate more. Good idea.

 

Challenge this notion that to have enlightenment you must meditate all day and not do anything else. Have you ever tried meditating 1 hour a day every day? 2 hours? 3 hours? If you never tried meditating that much, then how can you say that enlightenment is ONLY reached with 12 hours a day? Why not just gradually increase up to satisfaction? I have no clue how much you are meditating right now, but you can just double that and see if that's enough. At some point you'll get the results you are looking for.

[Phil]

@Winter

Well said. 

[Orb]

@Winter I've been doing 20-30 mins a day, an hour sounds amazing. 

 

what about legs falling asleep? Or any physical discomforts?

 

also, sorry guys for my attitude in this thread. 

 

if we look on the bright side, you just witnessed someone bouncing back and forth between boredom/pessimism.

[Joseph Maynor]

@Orb You like yourself more when you're industrious.  I'm reluctant to post in online nondual communities anymore because I realize I see things very differently than many others do in these communities.  There's a groupthink in nondual communities that I think is counterproductive.  And I cringe when I see some of the "nondual advice".   I have my own opinions about how life coaching and development work should be taught, who should be a teacher and who shouldn't, and what spiritual enlightenment is and how it should be taught. 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Joseph Maynor

[Orb]

2 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

@Orb You like yourself more when you're industrious.

@Joseph Maynor interesting 🤔, can you elaborate on that?

[Faith]

11 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I'm reluctant to post in online nondual communities anymore because I realize I see things very differently than many others do in these communities.  There's a groupthink in nondual communities that I think is counterproductive.  

 

Not sure what you're pointing to exactly, that you dont agree with, but why not just say what you want to say?... Or do you not agree with nonduality in general? 

 

I'm not here thinking anyone is my teacher, that's for certain. I have my own thoughts about nonduality and I'm willing to discuss them, but that's about it.

 

If I learn something from the members here then fabulous, but it's not an expectation that I have. I also don't judge if others look up to some on here as if they are a teacher, that's fine too. Just because someone posts a reply to someone it doesn't mean they are "teaching" either. We all give/take advice on different threads. 

 

If this forum becomes a place where I have to completely agree with someone else's nondual views, just to be able to  keep posting here, then I'm out. 

 

I won't feel stifled again, like I did on the other forum. It's not worth it to me. 

 

 

 

 

[Aware Wolf]

Hold on there, Speed Racer!

 

First you have to identify what sect or group you’d like to robe up in. Second, you should visit and get to know them and let them get to know you. This is a process that could take years. It probably should take years. 

 

I advocate the path of the Dharma Bum and it’s a great way to get your foundations in order and also visit different centers and monasteries. If you take a shining to a monastery and a teaching, the next step might be an extended retreat there, then volunteering. Often before becoming a monk there’s a trial period where you’re like a helper or junior monk. In Theravada they have what’s called a samanera. 

 

If you just show up at a monastery and center and want to become a monk, you risk being perceived as the caricature of a Western spiritual tourist with overly romantic ideas of what being a monk entails that will probably flame out when faced with the reality. They don’t know you and may think you’re going through a life crisis. Are you? However if you’ve done a retreat with them before, return, and are keen on being a volunteer – well, everyone loves volunteers! Do that – explore and volunteer. 

 

See Wat Pah Nanachat which is a Thai monastery setup expressly to help Westerners ordain into the Thai Forest Tradition.

https://www.watpahnanachat.org/

 

If you’re interested in Tibetan Buddhism, I’d spend extended around Dharamsala area. The FPMT is an organization that is friendly towards Westerners with a number of Western monks and nuns. The thing about Tibetan Buddhism is often they really emphasize a guru so it might work better if you find a Tibetan teacher you’re really keen on. If you robed up under the FPMT and didn’t care for Lama Zopa, it would be peculiar. 

 

[Forza21]

I feel ya. Consider this myself. India or Thailand.

it's just i can't find anything satisfying in any materialistic pursuit, travels, cars, all this stuff.

I've been into some Buddhist retreats and honestly, i have never felt that good in my entire life.

Wake up -> meditation - > chanting -> work -> free time - > meditation - > work -> sleep.

It's simply life, without any distractions, and that sense of calmness is amazing.

@Aware Wolf

there's a book:
björn natthiko lindeblad - 

I May Be Wrong: And Other Wisdoms From Life as a Forest Monk

He exactly describes this forest monastery of "Thai Forest Tradition"! He left "west" life as well, and became a monk there, and than few other places. Check it out, this book is great, his whole path is there.

I  might go there at first too. I love Ajhan Cha, and Ajhan Brahm (i would go to Brahm, but he's in Australia i think) Haven't decided yet, but i don't see much changes in my current life situation... 

And also Buddism resonate with me more, than Hindu religions... 

 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Forza21