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Why are people ok living the way they are


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I don’t want to criticize them, but to really understand them, so I was wondering what motivates people to stay where they are? Keep being religious, keep believing all the nonsense they are believing, keep being abusive to others, keep being violent to others - why do they not question their behaviour? What is causing one to never change? What kind of environment is causing that?
 

Sometimes when I talk to my old friends from back home, I feel like I am talking to my grandmother - they use exactly same words, exactly same phrases.. like a parrot who is just repeating what everyone else is saying.. and they are very passionate about it too
 

Do you also feel most of the world is really “unconscious”? I would say 95-99%, it’s very rare to find someone who is mature and ready to question everything they believe in.. not saying it like it’s a “bad” thing.. although I do hold personal grudges - my family is highly religious, casually abusive, think there is 0% “wrong” with them and it’s all my fault and that I am absolutely fundamentally messed up.. I want to understand why does one think like that and how can they be so sure..

 

 

Edited by Rose
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Deep down its fear of existence itself. 

 

The prison of mind identification seems (keyword "seems") way better than the ungrounded ground of existence. 

 

It's like the guy from the matrix who'd rather taste the fake steak than see the real world. 

"Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless."

A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture

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I hate to say the Phil thing but it really probably is ignore-ance of emotions as guidance.

 

It's basically the innocent mistaken assumption that thoughts / things feel like they do cause they're true. When the 'situation' is actually the opposite; it feels that way cause they're not true.

 

 

The ego is the assumption that truth is too good to be true. It is the innocent assumption/belief that truth/happiness requires sacrifice and suffering. This assumption cannot fathom 100% good news.

 

I mean look at pretty much all the religions in the world. The basic message is always the same: something is wrong, and someone has to sacrifice (often someone has to die), to correct the wrong.

 

If that would be true, why would anyone actually want to even consider creating change?

 

 

There must be an effortless way.

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@Rose

How do you continue believing there is a separate material reality consisting of people thinking, motivation, understanding, religions, your old friends, your grandma, a duality of consciousness, etc?

 

Sincere curiosity… given you never experience being born, sleep, death or yourself, how do you continue believing this isn’t you, dreaming? 

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I think people get stuck in narratives because that forms the social glue that holds their relations together.  It gives them common ground to have a reason to relate with others and a safe zone for that.  The downside of this is it impedes growth because if you change too much you're no longer speaking the language that holds your tribe together so to speak.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Phil said:

@Rose

How do you continue believing there is a separate material reality consisting of people thinking, motivation, understanding, religions, your old friends, your grandma, a duality of consciousness, etc?

 

Sincere curiosity… given you never experience being born, sleep, death or yourself, how do you continue believing this isn’t you, dreaming? 


I try to change my believes, most of my life I’ve been challenging them.. I used to be a crazy Christian too

 

I continue believing because I can’t understand the alternative.. but I really try to understand it and my believes are flexible 

Edited by Rose
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10 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

It's basically the innocent mistaken assumption that thoughts / things feel like they do cause they're true. When the 'situation' is actually the opposite; it feels that way cause they're not true.

 

Wow this just made something click for me!

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6 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I think people get stuck in narratives because that forms the social glue that holds their relations together.  It gives them common ground to have a reason to relate with others and a safe zone for that.  The downside of this is it impedes growth because if you change too much you're no longer speaking the language that holds your tribe together so to speak.

Is it kind of like “misery likes company”? Is that why we are all loners here? 😅

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12 hours ago, Orb said:

Deep down its fear of existence itself. 

 

The prison of mind identification seems (keyword "seems") way better than the ungrounded ground of existence. 

One of my trips I felt it too.. that I fear existence.. I saw existence as a fast highway that I would need to “jump into” and it’s very hard to navigate there, you have to relax and be completely intuitive.. but if you don’t relax you’re going to get crushed by other cars.. thus the fear..

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1 hour ago, Rose said:


I try to change my believes, most of my life I’ve been challenging them.. I used to be a crazy Christian too

A belief by default isn’t true. Changing beliefs would be replacing untruth with untruth. 

On whose behalf are you speaking? As you are present-only & have never experienced not being present, who is the self which has beliefs, which has life, which used to be other than what it presently is…?

 

1 hour ago, Rose said:

 

I continue believing because I can’t understand the alternative.. but I really try to understand it and my believes are flexible 

You are the alternative, yet are without opposite. The underlying presumption is that there is you and understanding / that there is some thing to be understood. Imagine seeking peace & letting go of the seeking and thus there is / this is… peace. Same for understanding. Understanding is synonymous with peace. No difference whatsoever. Neither are experiential. It’s not possible to experience understanding / peace. 

 

Akin to changing beliefs being a replacement with new beliefs… attempting to replace misunderstanding with understanding doesn’t pan out. It’s objectifying or thingifying yourself (understanding) as a thought (that there is this thing; understanding). Another example is how attempting to replace impatience with patience doesn’t pan out. It’s because it’s the activity of thought. If impatience is experienced and acknowledged, and the message received, there is no longer the experience of impatience… but it’s not replace by some thing / something experiential called patience… patience is inherent in your eternal nature, only seeming to be obscured by the thought & emotion impatience. 

 

Understanding, peace & patience are the sun. Not clouds. 

Misunderstanding, impatience & the expectation understanding will be experienced are clouds. 

You’re the unchanging sun. 

Clouds come & go (appear & disappear). 

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On 4/26/2024 at 6:19 PM, Phil said:

On whose behalf are you speaking? As you are present-only & have never experienced not being present, who is the self which has beliefs, which has life, which used to be other than what it presently is…?

The self is the mind that is living in my body…

 

 

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On 4/26/2024 at 11:20 PM, Rose said:

But I am not ok staying where I am 

What I meant to convey by that is that, your very core personality and thus all the subtle or not so subtle behaviours stemming from those characteristics will never really change, to put it into some analogy, you can just sort of mold the shape of the tree top, make it look prettier or less messy, make the branches/twigs look different etc. but you can never really replace the tree trunk, or the roots, those stay the same.

 

Similiarly, there are certain characteristics and patterns of behaviour about you that are unchangeable and you also don't really want to change them because they make you, well, you. Even in your case on this forum, we can probably observe certain patterns of your behaviour that didn't change and remained consistent despite you changing some beliefs and perspectives.

 

The reason this core doesn't change is because of unique mix of biology/genetics, enviromental and social factors that were set at your birth/early childhood. These are a certain set of rigid rules similiar to gravity, being imagined in this particuliar reality, making certain people predisposed towards certain behaviours for their entire life

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