Serenity Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 I am in the situation where I can't even tell where to look: 6 minutes ago, Phil said: A concession would be to the “ego”… the belief that there is / that one is a separate self. Isn't this exactly what I am saying? My point was that working with the Jungian model starts with this belief, which is a false one. 15 minutes ago, Phil said: Carl Jung did not frame the shadow as a separate entity with autonomous parts within the psyche. Phil's non dual bingo: Carl Jung doesn't exist You're talking about an ego that doesn't exist The shadow doesn't exist You are factually wrong about Carl Jung's model of the shadow Semantics All of this together 🤷♀️ I suppose I am going to keep guessing which one it is. Quote Mention “Know yourself as nothing; feel yourself as everything.” - Rupert Spira Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 Phil doesn't know what he is talking about.All knowing complex. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 8 minutes ago, Alexander said: Phil doesn't know what he is talking about.All knowing complex. Mad about your dreamboard? Lol Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 3 minutes ago, Jonas Long said: Mad about your dreamboard? Lol No I am not mad he doesn't know what he is talking about for real it's all word sallads. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serenity Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 14 minutes ago, Phil said: Hard to say without a specific reference. From the website, youtube videos and or forum comments, what is being referred to? I get confused on all support ☹️. Overall, it requires me a lot of attention when it comes to understanding the stuff that goes beyond what I already see. 😔 17 minutes ago, Phil said: I don’t recall saying anything like ‘to be conscious, you’ve got to be conscious’. That's because you've never said such things. 🙂 Quote Mention “Know yourself as nothing; feel yourself as everything.” - Rupert Spira Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 8 minutes ago, Alexander said: No I am not mad he doesn't know what he is talking about for real it's all word sallads. Interesting take. How's the racism going btw? Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 46 minutes ago, Serenity said: I am in the situation where I can't even tell where to look: Same ‘here’. 46 minutes ago, Serenity said: Isn't this exactly what I am saying? Sounds like whether concession is to truth or the separate self of thoughts. 46 minutes ago, Serenity said: My point was that working with the Jungian model starts with this belief, which is a false one. I don’t know that lying is the best way to go. 🤷♂️ Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 46 minutes ago, Serenity said: Phil's non dual bingo: Nonduality isn’t and Phil. Nonduality is no Phil. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serenity Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 15 minutes ago, Phil said: Sounds like whether concession is to truth or the separate self of thoughts. Could be interpreted both ways. The concession could be to truth, which means in that case that you compromise truth for the sake of it, in what is a paradoxal but existing occurence when one is trying help. Or the concession could be to the ego, which would mean in this case that you are biting too much into the illusion and thus compromising also on Truth. 27 minutes ago, Phil said: I don’t know that lying is the best way to go. 🤷♂️ Lying is a bit of a stretch isn't it. People already believe they have an ego. It's more meeting them where they are. 59 minutes ago, Phil said: Nonduality isn’t and Phil. Nonduality is no Phil. Yes. That's true. Not going to help out those who want to talk about your regular shadow work, which assume there is an ego and can't nearly see as far as you do, though. Quote Mention “Know yourself as nothing; feel yourself as everything.” - Rupert Spira Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted March 9 Author Share Posted March 9 "You're not that which is checking in what condition the condition is in." 💗 Quote Mention There must be an effortless way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 52 minutes ago, Serenity said: Could be interpreted both ways. The concession could be to truth, which means in that case that you compromise truth for the sake of it, in what is a paradoxal but existing occurence when one is trying help. Or the concession could be to the ego, which would mean in this case that you are biting too much into the illusion and thus compromising also on Truth. Interpreted both ways, yes. Could be interpreted as a polar bear eating tacos on a bench waiting for a train. 52 minutes ago, Serenity said: Lying is a bit of a stretch isn't it. People already believe they have an ego. It's more meeting them where they are. Meeting a false belief by starting at a false belief to meet someone where they’re at because someone needs to understands some thing? Is ego something people have or is that there are people ego? 52 minutes ago, Serenity said: Not going to help out those who want to talk about your regular shadow work, which assume there is an ego and can't nearly see as far as you do, though. Emotion isn’t really per se ‘seen’. It’s very much the reverse. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serenity Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 (edited) @Phil Just a reminder that enlightened masters like Eckhart Tolle write about the ego and thus meet people at a false belief. He is in your book recommendation list 3x 🤷♀️. Edited March 9 by Serenity Quote Mention “Know yourself as nothing; feel yourself as everything.” - Rupert Spira Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 @Serenity Enlightened masters meeting people sounds like a pretty hierarchical framework. Perhaps we're already parallel and "meeting people where they are at" is just unnecessary? Isn't what's really wanted with meeting people where they are "at" just LOVE? Is love conditional on the need to understand or be understood? Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serenity Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 (edited) @Mandy I really don't think I was coming from a place of hierarchical framework. 'Meeting people where they are at' is a common saying in English, which convey the idea of creating some resonance through adaptability. I don't think there is much more to look into that. It's about being practical. Edited March 9 by Serenity Quote Mention “Know yourself as nothing; feel yourself as everything.” - Rupert Spira Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 @Serenity Why use language like enlightened masters? We have a lot of sayings in English that are based on or come from living in a hierarchical culture. It's completely "normal." If it's normal to sing the off note in a chorus, should the one that can find the intended note find resonance with the note and the music or find resonance with the other people in the chorus? Might sound even more clashy for a while, might be disruptive to stop the song to point out and communicate about the discrepancy, but better to point out the discord than keep on singing it, isn't it? Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serenity Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 1 minute ago, Mandy said: @Serenity Why use language like enlightened masters? We have a lot of sayings in English that are based on or come from living in a hierarchical culture. It's completely "normal." If it's normal to sing the off note in a chorus, should the one that can hit the intended note find resonance with the note and the music or find resonance with the other people in the chorus? Might sound even more clashy for a while, might be disruptive to stop the song to point out the discrepancy, but better to point out the discord than keep on singing it, isn't it? The term "enlightened masters" remains neutral, allowing for diverse interpretations. As Phil (or maybe not Phil 😗) suggested earlier, it might suggest hierarchy, non-hierarchy, or whimsical scenarios, like polar bears savoring rainbow ice creams. Its significance varies depending on individual perspectives. Personally, I associate "master" with mastery and experience. However, shifting focus, my interest was there : Why is it acceptable for Eckhart Tolle to discuss the ego If Phil denounce such discourse as lying? Quote Mention “Know yourself as nothing; feel yourself as everything.” - Rupert Spira Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 1 hour ago, Serenity said: @Phil Just a reminder that enlightened masters like Eckhart Tolle write about the ego and thus meet people at a false belief. He is in your book recommendation list 3x 🤷♀️. “Enlightened masters” is obscuring enlightenment. Nonduality isn’t and enlightened masters. Nothing’s happening. That there’s people, an Eckhart Tolle, enlightened masters, individual perspectives, mastery and experience… are beliefs. You wouln’t have the first clue what any of those things are like, because you have never actually experienced them. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serenity Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 Just now, Phil said: “Enlightened masters” is obscuring enlightenment. As someone who isn't a native English speaker and has a limited vocabulary range, I don't see the value in fixating on minor word choices in situations like this. I experimented with different wording, making adjustments before posting to broaden the scope beyond just Eckhart Tolle. The initial question I posed was, "Why is it acceptable for Eckhart Tolle to discuss the ego if Phil denounces such discourse as lying?" So, for me, the discussions around the semantics of "enlightened masters" seem of little value. Quote Mention “Know yourself as nothing; feel yourself as everything.” - Rupert Spira Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 20 minutes ago, Serenity said: As someone who isn't a native English speaker and has a limited vocabulary range, I don't see the value in fixating on minor word choices in situations like this. Then don’t. Value’s a belief too. 20 minutes ago, Serenity said: I experimented with different wording, making adjustments before posting to broaden the scope beyond just Eckhart Tolle. The initial question I posed was, "Why is it acceptable for Eckhart Tolle to discuss the ego if Phil denounces such discourse as lying?" So, for me, the discussions around the semantics of "enlightened masters" seem of little value. There is no Phil or Eckhart. Only “for me”. This is not semantical. But it is “for me”. Those are all concepts. https://www.actualityofbeing.com/the-emotional-scale Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 1 hour ago, Serenity said: The term "enlightened masters" remains neutral, allowing for diverse interpretations. As Phil (or maybe not Phil 😗) suggested earlier, it might suggest hierarchy, non-hierarchy, or whimsical scenarios, like polar bears savoring rainbow ice creams. Its significance varies depending on individual perspectives. Personally, I associate "master" with mastery and experience. However, shifting focus, my interest was there : Why is it acceptable for Eckhart Tolle to discuss the ego If Phil denounce such discourse as lying? Are there enlightened slaves? Eckhart Tolle expresses what Eckhart Tolle wants, no one is saying it's acceptable or unacceptable. What's actual here and now? Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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