Questioning Beliefs

[noomii]

How do I question beliefs in the right way? Do you sit in meditation, ask the question and be mindful of what comes up? Do you use a paper and pen or reflect on it intellectually?

What is the easiest way?

 

How do I know if the thoughts coming up when questioning are true or false? I think I've read there's no true thought, should I ignore all thoughts and only focus on what I see in direct experience?

 

When I use Byron Katie's method I don't feel like anything changes even though I question the same beliefs several times.

 

It feels very difficult for me to reflect on questions casually to begin with.

I just want it to feel easy to inspect and question beliefs. 

 

 

Edited February 20 by noomii

[Someone here]

@noomii what's an example of a belief and an example of something which is not a belief?

[Phil]

50 minutes ago, noomii said:

How do I question beliefs in the right way?

That there is a right way and a wrong way is a belief. The belief is felt, and doesn’t resonate in that it implies pressure to ‘get it right’.

 

The key is acknowledging that pressure felt - does not resonate.

 

The point of inspecting & dispelling beliefs is uncovering the truth - the true nature. That which beliefs feel discordant to. 

 

The true nature is the most wonderful “feeling” there could ever possibly be! 

 

The true nature is unconditional… and beliefs are essentially - conditions. 

 

50 minutes ago, noomii said:

 

Do you sit in meditation, ask the question and be mindful of what comes up?

Whatever’s comfy! 

 

Meditation is traditionally not questioning beliefs, and is gently bringing the activity of thinking to rest, by shifting attention to perception and or sensation, such as feeling breathing in the stomach. Meditation in the practice sense is really nothing more than allowing the mind to clear, settle, be calmed, inherently peaceful. 

 

50 minutes ago, noomii said:

Do you use a paper and pen or reflect on it intellectually?

Writing a thought / belief down and looking at it visually is imo much much much easier. 

 

Beliefs, or, the believing of arising thoughts, is tricky.

That there is an intellectual which could go about anything intellectually is thoughts appearing / a belief. 

 

50 minutes ago, noomii said:

What is the easiest way?

‘Easiest’ is subjective. As in, one may find x to be the easiest way, while one may find y to be the easiest way, and one may find z to be the easiest way. 

 

Ime, using the back side of the dreamboard & different color markers is more fun, clear, and efficient. The different colors can be used in any way you like.

 

One way might be to write a thought in blue, and circle the pronouns with red, to help them stand out visually.

 

An example thought might be “I am hard on myself”. That thought could be written in blue, and “I” and “myself” could be circled with red. 

 

50 minutes ago, noomii said:

 

How do I know if the thoughts coming up when questioning are true or false?

Inspecting & questioning thoughts / beliefs is not about knowing. 

it’s about if the thoughts / beliefs are true. 

 

When a belief is dispelled, there isn’t “something new which is known” - there is just - something believed, which is no longer believed. 

 

Much like there is an experience of misunderstanding… and when dispelled… there isn’t an experience of “understanding”.

Another example, there is an experience of impatience… and as the emotion is acknowledged & felt… there isn’t an experience of “patience”. 

 

“Understanding” & “patience” are not experience or experienced - but rather - are the true nature. 

 

Similarly, war can not result in peace, as peace was already the case before war, is still the case during war, and will eternally be the case after war. 

 

When there are no beliefs, there isn’t “some thing” known. There is simply, Being. Peace, happiness, wholeness, completeness, without condition(s) (beliefs). 

 

50 minutes ago, noomii said:

I think I've read there's no true thought, should I ignore all thoughts and only focus on what I see in direct experience?

The point of questioning beliefs is the dispelling of discordant beliefs. 

Suffering is - of discordant beliefs. 

If discord is felt, the discord is of the beliefs which aren’t resonating with the true nature. 

Ignoring ensures the discordant beliefs aren’t questioned or inspected, and therein aren’t dispelled, and therein - the discord / suffering remains. 

 

 

50 minutes ago, noomii said:

When I use Byron Katie's method I don't feel like anything changes even though I question the same beliefs several times.

You would have to share the specific belief, for us to be able to discuss what might not seem to be working specifically. 

 

50 minutes ago, noomii said:

 

It feels very difficult for me to reflect on questions casually to begin with.

I just want it to feel easy to inspect and question beliefs. 

This is where the suggested methods shine. 

 

Review the ten ox herding pictures. 

To see this ‘work’ is headed somewhere (so to speak) which is more resonating, free, exciting & most worthwhile. 

 

Create a dreamboard. 

Written on that dreamboard is the unmistakable why of questioning & dispelling limiting beliefs. It is more readily clear the why  is - what you want. This clarifies that though it might be difficult to confront and dispel discordant beliefs - you do in fact want to and are 100% behind it. 

 

Use the emotional scale. 

This is a simple go-to tool. 

Suffering is not acknowledging emotion & instead believing, a belief. 

That you can always acknowledge emotion to dispel any resistance or suffering is reassuring in terms of whatever might come up or be experienced as you go, as it were.

 

Beliefs are inherently isolating, limiting, discordant & confusing. Acknowledging emotion(s) is inherently connective, unifying, relieving & clarifying.  

 

Daily morning meditation. 

Thoughts arise at light speed and are believed just as fast. Meditation is an allowing of thought to settle, to fizzle out, and there is the spaciousness of self… and so when thoughts arise, they aren’t instantly believed, making inspecting beliefs much, much easier. 

 

Daily use of an expression journal.

Dispelling beliefs is dispelling conditioning as is a very emotional undergoing. 

Suppressing = suffering. 

Expressing = liberation. 

 

Aligned diet, one small change at a time.

Initially - a clear head and a body feeling good make a HUGE difference with respect to everything else being said here. The alignment of even the smallest of changes - that feeling of alignment - “speaks” more than any words will ever be able to convey. 

 

Create a Calendar. Creating the event on a calendar is creating the experience. So say you & so shall it be. 

Questioning beliefs / dispelling conditioning can bring a lot up & out. There is everything from something fun on the calendar to look forward to, to a massage or solo retreat, to cathartic modalities for helping the ‘up & out’, expression, releasing, along, making the entire endeavor easier and more enjoyable. Schedule some! 🙂

 

 

Create a Dream Journal. 

As questioning what hasn’t been questioned before and dispelling beliefs therein occurs… one might experience discordant dream, often reoccurring, without receiving the message or guidance of the dream. All of the other suggested methods prior to this one minimize that, and thus dreams also contribute to emptying out of discord & suffering, as well as clarity & inspiration. 

 

[noomii]

32 minutes ago, Phil said:

That there is a right way and a wrong way is a belief. The belief is felt, and doesn’t resonate in that it implies pressure to ‘get it right’.

 

The key is acknowledging that pressure felt - does not resonate.

 

The point of inspecting & dispelling beliefs is uncovering the truth - the true nature. That which beliefs feel discordant to. 

 

The true nature is the most wonderful “feeling” there could ever possibly be! 

 

The true nature is unconditional… and beliefs are essentially - conditions. 

 

Whatever’s comfy! 

 

Meditation is traditionally not questioning beliefs, and is gently bringing the activity of thinking to rest, by shifting attention to perception and or sensation, such as feeling breathing in the stomach. Meditation in the practice sense is really nothing more than allowing the mind to clear, settle, be calmed, inherently peaceful. 

 

Writing a thought / belief down and looking at it visually is imo much much much easier. 

 

Beliefs, or, the believing of arising thoughts, is tricky.

That there is an intellectual which could go about anything intellectually is thoughts appearing / a belief. 

 

‘Easiest’ is subjective. As in, one may find x to be the easiest way, while one may find y to be the easiest way, and one may find z to be the easiest way. 

 

Ime, using the back side of the dreamboard & different color markers is more fun, clear, and efficient. The different colors can be used in any way you like.

 

One way might be to write a thought in blue, and circle the pronouns with red, to help them stand out visually.

 

An example thought might be “I am hard on myself”. That thought could be written in blue, and “I” and “myself” could be circled with red. 

 

Inspecting & questioning thoughts / beliefs is not about knowing. 

it’s about if the thoughts / beliefs are true. 

 

When a belief is dispelled, there isn’t “something new which is known” - there is just - something believed, which is no longer believed. 

 

Much like there is an experience of misunderstanding… and when dispelled… there isn’t an experience of “understanding”.

Another example, there is an experience of impatience… and as the emotion is acknowledged & felt… there isn’t an experience of “patience”. 

 

“Understanding” & “patience” are not experience or experienced - but rather - are the true nature. 

 

Similarly, war can not result in peace, as peace was already the case before war, is still the case during war, and will eternally be the case after war. 

 

When there are no beliefs, there isn’t “some thing” known. There is simply, Being. Peace, happiness, wholeness, completeness, without condition(s) (beliefs). 

 

The point of questioning beliefs is the dispelling of discordant beliefs. 

Suffering is - of discordant beliefs. 

If discord is felt, the discord is of the beliefs which aren’t resonating with the true nature. 

Ignoring ensures the discordant beliefs aren’t questioned or inspected, and therein aren’t dispelled, and therein - the discord / suffering remains. 

 

 

You would have to share the specific belief, for us to be able to discuss what might not seem to be working specifically. 

 

This is where the suggested methods shine. 

 

Review the ten ox herding pictures. 

To see this ‘work’ is headed somewhere (so to speak) which is more resonating, free, exciting & most worthwhile. 

 

Create a dreamboard. 

Written on that dreamboard is the unmistakable why of questioning & dispelling limiting beliefs. It is more readily clear the why  is - what you want. This clarifies that though it might be difficult to confront and dispel discordant beliefs - you do in fact want to and are 100% behind it. 

 

Use the emotional scale. 

This is a simple go-to tool. 

Suffering is not acknowledging emotion & instead believing, a belief. 

That you can always acknowledge emotion to dispel any resistance or suffering is reassuring in terms of whatever might come up or be experienced as you go, as it were.

 

Beliefs are inherently isolating, limiting, discordant & confusing. Acknowledging emotion(s) is inherently connective, unifying, relieving & clarifying.  

 

Daily morning meditation. 

Thoughts arise at light speed and are believed just as fast. Meditation is an allowing of thought to settle, to fizzle out, and there is the spaciousness of self… and so when thoughts arise, they aren’t instantly believed, making inspecting beliefs much, much easier. 

 

Daily use of an expression journal.

Dispelling beliefs is dispelling conditioning as is a very emotional undergoing. 

Suppressing = suffering. 

Expressing = liberation. 

 

Aligned diet, one small change at a time.

Initially - a clear head and a body feeling good make a HUGE difference with respect to everything else being said here. The alignment of even the smallest of changes - that feeling of alignment - “speaks” more than any words will ever be able to convey. 

 

Create a Calendar. Creating the event on a calendar is creating the experience. So say you & so shall it be. 

Questioning beliefs / dispelling conditioning can bring a lot up & out. There is everything from something fun on the calendar to look forward to, to a massage or solo retreat, to cathartic modalities for helping the ‘up & out’, expression, releasing, along, making the entire endeavor easier and more enjoyable. Schedule some! 🙂

 

 

Create a Dream Journal. 

As questioning what hasn’t been questioned before and dispelling beliefs therein occurs… one might experience discordant dream, often reoccurring, without receiving the message or guidance of the dream. All of the other suggested methods prior to this one minimize that, and thus dreams also contribute to emptying out of discord & suffering, as well as clarity & inspiration. 

 

 

❤️ Thank you very much Phil. Replying when I have read through.

 

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

@noomii what's an example of a belief and an example of something which is not a belief?

 

Anything you believe is true, like "I exist". Stuff you don't believe in are just thoughts

[James123]

2 hours ago, noomii said:

How do I question beliefs in the right way? Do you sit in meditation, ask the question and be mindful of what comes up? Do you use a paper and pen or reflect on it intellectually?

What is the easiest way?

 

How do I know if the thoughts coming up when questioning are true or false? I think I've read there's no true thought, should I ignore all thoughts and only focus on what I see in direct experience?

 

When I use Byron Katie's method I don't feel like anything changes even though I question the same beliefs several times.

 

It feels very difficult for me to reflect on questions casually to begin with.

I just want it to feel easy to inspect and question beliefs. 

 

 

Anything you have learned is belief itself. Including word of questioning is belief. You can't question belief with belief?

[MetaSage]

You recognize it and do it

[noomii]

23 hours ago, Phil said:

Meditation is traditionally not questioning beliefs, and is gently bringing the activity of thinking to rest, by shifting attention to perception and or sensation, such as feeling breathing in the stomach. Meditation in the practice sense is really nothing more than allowing the mind to clear, settle, be calmed, inherently peaceful. 

 

What I meant was that before I question a belief I meditate to get focused, then I ask if the belief is true, I sit still and look at what thought comes up. 

 

23 hours ago, Phil said:

You would have to share the specific belief, for us to be able to discuss what might not seem to be working specifically. 

"I'm not good enough" among others. I don't think it's about the specific belief, it seems to be about how I go about questioning it?

 

23 hours ago, Phil said:

Writing a thought / belief down and looking at it visually is imo much much much easier. 

 

Looking at it visually, and then what?...
What does one actually do when questioning?
These questions maybe sound stupid, or maybe it's just that I feel insecurity about asking.
It just seems like I'm not able to question, reflect or contemplate on questions or beliefs.
Maybe I'm already doing it effortlessly sometimes, but when I try to do it, I don't seem to be able to focus and trying to focus feels bad. It seems like a part of "my mind" is completely shut off, blocked and does not work.

 

23 hours ago, Phil said:

This is where the suggested methods shine. 

 

Review the ten ox herding pictures. 

To see this ‘work’ is headed somewhere (so to speak) which is more resonating, free, exciting & most worthwhile. 

 

Create a dreamboard. 

Written on that dreamboard is the unmistakable why of questioning & dispelling limiting beliefs. It is more readily clear the why  is - what you want. This clarifies that though it might be difficult to confront and dispel discordant beliefs - you do in fact want to and are 100% behind it. 

 

Use the emotional scale. 

This is a simple go-to tool. 

Suffering is not acknowledging emotion & instead believing, a belief. 

That you can always acknowledge emotion to dispel any resistance or suffering is reassuring in terms of whatever might come up or be experienced as you go, as it were.

 

Beliefs are inherently isolating, limiting, discordant & confusing. Acknowledging emotion(s) is inherently connective, unifying, relieving & clarifying.  

 

Daily morning meditation. 

Thoughts arise at light speed and are believed just as fast. Meditation is an allowing of thought to settle, to fizzle out, and there is the spaciousness of self… and so when thoughts arise, they aren’t instantly believed, making inspecting beliefs much, much easier. 

 

Daily use of an expression journal.

Dispelling beliefs is dispelling conditioning as is a very emotional undergoing. 

Suppressing = suffering. 

Expressing = liberation. 

 

Aligned diet, one small change at a time.

Initially - a clear head and a body feeling good make a HUGE difference with respect to everything else being said here. The alignment of even the smallest of changes - that feeling of alignment - “speaks” more than any words will ever be able to convey. 

 

Create a Calendar. Creating the event on a calendar is creating the experience. So say you & so shall it be. 

Questioning beliefs / dispelling conditioning can bring a lot up & out. There is everything from something fun on the calendar to look forward to, to a massage or solo retreat, to cathartic modalities for helping the ‘up & out’, expression, releasing, along, making the entire endeavor easier and more enjoyable. Schedule some! 🙂

 

 

Create a Dream Journal. 

As questioning what hasn’t been questioned before and dispelling beliefs therein occurs… one might experience discordant dream, often reoccurring, without receiving the message or guidance of the dream. All of the other suggested methods prior to this one minimize that, and thus dreams also contribute to emptying out of discord & suffering, as well as clarity & inspiration. 

 

The practices I don't use from that list are emotional scale (however I'm mindful of emotions throughout the day) and a calendar.

I write out my dreams when I feel like it, I don't often receive the full message.

Scheduling fun things in a calendar feels difficult, activities I want or meeting people I want are far away from me, or so I believe. I think I suffer so much more than necessary because of not talking to friends I feel connected to.

[Phil]

1 hour ago, noomii said:

I'm not good enough" among others. I don't think it's about the specific belief, it seems to be about how I go about questioning it?

Looking at it visually, and then what?...
What does one actually do when questioning?

Is it true?

 

Who is the belief about?

 

Who is believing the belief?

 

Good enough for what? For who? 

 

In comparison to what or who? 

 

When, where, from who did you learn to think that way? 

 

What is the evidence this is true? 

 

Why does it feel discordant? 

 

What is Source saying about this belief? 

 

How would you feel if this belief weren’t true? 

 

What might you do if this belief isn’t true? 

 

Do you sometimes believe others aren’t good enough? 

Who specifically?

 

What is one way this belief isn’t true?

 

What are three things you appreciate about this belief? 

 

What are three ways in which you are good? 

 

1 hour ago, noomii said:

These questions maybe sound stupid, or maybe it's just that I feel insecurity about asking.

A drop of oil in a sea of oil believing I’m not oil enough would feel off to oil. Same for good. So it makes sense insecurity would be felt. ‘I’m not oil enough’ is not a very secure mental position given the belief is occurring to oil. 

 

1 hour ago, noomii said:

It just seems like I'm not able to question, reflect or contemplate on questions or beliefs.

Yes you are, you’re doing great. 99% of people don’t go this far. 

 

1 hour ago, noomii said:

Maybe I'm already doing it effortlessly sometimes, but when I try to do it, I don't seem to be able to focus and trying to focus feels bad. It seems like a part of "my mind" is completely shut off, blocked and does not work.

 

Look at the scale and see which emotion that is / which is closest. If insecurity, express everybody’s favorite… jealousy. 

[WhiteOwl]

15 minutes ago, Phil said:

Yes you are, you’re doing great. 99% of people don’t go this far

If anyone else said this you would say. "There are no people".

 

How is it sometimes valid and sometimes not?

[Phil]

@WhiteOwl

99.1%

[noomii]

17 hours ago, Phil said:

Is it true?

 

Who is the belief about?

 

Who is believing the belief?

 

Good enough for what? For who? 

 

In comparison to what or who? 

 

When, where, from who did you learn to think that way? 

 

What is the evidence this is true? 

 

Why does it feel discordant? 

 

What is Source saying about this belief? 

 

How would you feel if this belief weren’t true? 

 

What might you do if this belief isn’t true? 

 

Do you sometimes believe others aren’t good enough? 

Who specifically?

 

What is one way this belief isn’t true?

 

What are three things you appreciate about this belief? 

 

What are three ways in which you are good? 

I guess I need to force myself to focus and be mindful of how discordant it feels. 

Maybe all the thoughts about "my focus and mind" are just in the way. Like "there's something wrong with my focus and mind. It feels easier to avoid what feels difficult to focus on".

 

I think most answers that comes up are false, should I just not care about what thoughts come up, care more about the question and focus on what I see in direct experience?

 

Do you see why the Byron katie's method didn't work for me in the way I did it?

 

17 hours ago, Phil said:

@WhiteOwl

99.1%

What do you mean?

 

"If I don't understand something it must mean that I'm not smart or intelligent." That's a belief. Just wanted to write it out to see clearly. 😂

[Phil]

20 hours ago, noomii said:

"I'm not good enough"

Is it true, yes or no?

 

[noomii]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

Is it true, yes or no?

 

I don't know.

[Phil]

10 minutes ago, noomii said:

I don't know.

Who is the belief about?

[noomii]

22 hours ago, Phil said:

Who is the belief about?

I don't know, I don't think I can be a pair of letters when I observe them

[Phil]

@noomii

Who is believing the belief?

[Phil]

Sometimes emotion is experienced, yet isn’t acknowledged. 

 

Often it seems, in the absence of acknowledging an emotion, a belief is reinforced.

 

An example of a belief which could be believed, by not acknowledging the emotion overwhelment is… “I’m stuck”.

”I’m stuck” might sound like “I can’t”, “I need”, “I’m incapable”, “I’m unable to”, “I’m not x, y or z yet”. 

 

The belief, being believed, seems true. If it is true, “I am stuck”, well, that’s the end of it. There is nowhere to go as it were.

 

 

 

 But in acknowledging the emotion, there is somewhere to go.

Inward.

The body.

Frustration, irritation, impatience. 

 

Not frustrated, irritated, or impatient.. as these are beliefs. A mysterious reinforcing of stuckness. 

 

Frustration, irritation, impatience. 

 

And so on. 

 

[Joseph Maynor]

What is a belief?   When is a belief being held?  I think a lot of people have beliefs and don't realize it or don't want to realize it for whatever reason.

Edited February 21 by Joseph Maynor

[noomii]

2 hours ago, Phil said:

@noomii

Who is believing the belief?

Thoughts "Me" or looking at "my body".

It feels difficult and I think I don't have time for this which makes me want to put aside these questions and do it later. 

To be honest I don't want to be "good enough". I want to be absolutely PERFECT, in all ways possible. 🙂

 

1 hour ago, Phil said:

Sometimes emotion is experienced, yet isn’t acknowledged. 

 

Often it seems, in the absence of acknowledging an emotion, a belief is reinforced.

 

An example of a belief which could be believed, by not acknowledging the emotion overwhelment is… “I’m stuck”.

”I’m stuck” might sound like “I can’t”, “I need”, “I’m incapable”, “I’m unable to”, “I’m not x, y or z yet”. 

 

The belief, being believed, seems true. If it is true, “I am stuck”, well, that’s the end of it. There is nowhere to go as it were.

 

 

 

 But in acknowledging the emotion, there is somewhere to go.

Inward.

The body.

Frustration, irritation, impatience. 

 

Not frustrated, irritated, or impatient.. as these are beliefs. A mysterious reinforcing of stuckness. 

 

Frustration, irritation, impatience. 

 

And so on. 

 

Yes, that's where I'm at with most aspects of life. Thank you for seeing and sharing that with me.
Was the link supposed to take me somewhere? 🙂

[Phil]

1 hour ago, noomii said:

Thoughts "Me" or looking at "my body".

It feels difficult and I think I don't have time for this which makes me want to put aside these questions and do it later. 

Indeed, questioning & dispelling beliefs is a mentally, emotionally & physiologically challenging endeavor. No one can tell you whether you should or shouldn’t or when if so, and I’m certainly not trying to. 

 

Based on the experience of the undergoing, I share this…

‘It feels difficult’ implies for me. ‘I think’ & ‘I don’t have’ are a bit more obvious as belief thought loops. Because the thoughts aren’t true, they have no where to land, and just keep repeating. Emotion is the landing strip. If instead of ‘it feels difficult’, the actual emotion experienced is acknowledged, the belief lands and the loop ends.

 

It might came up again, but will do so with less intensity, and is seen through much more readily. Soon enough, it just doesn’t come up anymore and it’s forgotten that it ever did, and there is clarity in regard to relationships, identity, and it’s seen how, when, why and where the belief was created (innocently) in the first place.

 

Like how a twisted ankle just doesn’t arise in thought well after it’s healed. It’s just not a thing, not an concern anymore so to speak. If interested, picture wise, notice when you’re making a right turn, and make a left with ‘the emotion experienced is ________’. Now there’s somewhere new to go, and that somewhere is what’s wanted, whatever that is. It’s ’getting out of your own way’. Walking, obviously you can’t get in your own way. With thought it might not be so clear, but it certainly can be and is a matter of unfettering. 

 

1 hour ago, noomii said:

To be honest I don't want to be "good enough". I want to be absolutely PERFECT, in all ways possible. 🙂

It is actual perfection which is unfettered, uncovered of beliefs like not good enough & good enough. It’s synonymous with good or bad, right or wrong, innocent or guilty. Another word for perfection is innocence.  

 

It’s a lot like an astronaut walking around earth with their spacesuit still on. Some people are like, you know… you made it, you’re in, it’s all good here, you can take that suit off. Listening to or trusting anyone just isn’t the same as taking the suit off and seeing for oneself. 

 

1 hour ago, noomii said:

 

Yes, that's where I'm at with most aspects of life. Thank you for seeing and sharing that with me.
Was the link supposed to take me somewhere? 🙂

🙏🏼♥️

 

Sorry… I mis-linked… probably so it could be said that perfection, innocence, is being… which is being… all the thoughts to the contrary… because perfection, innocence is inherently, free. In truth all errors & mistakes are in fact, perfection, innocence, freedom. 

 

 the emotional scale.