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Multiple points of view vs solipsism.


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This occurred to me.

Consciousness is one. Ocean is one. Waves are many, just as body-minds are many.

When one particular body-mind, takes psychedelics, all the infinite in his insight, is packed into it's finite "lens" if you will. (Phil <3) 😄

So in this analogy, the wave might had seen the entire ocean, but it's all packed into its finite point of interest.

So, the wave, might think, it's dreaming all the others waves, and it's alone. 

You as a wave, might be aware only of yourself.

At it goes to every possible waves, the insight is always the same, because ocean is ONE. 

So a character with undissolved ego, might think, that "i'm dreaming other people".

But when you inspect that "I" ,   it can't be found.

So who's dreaming it? If there's no-one?

Does dream character dream other characters? No, it's all one brain.

So does a solipsist dream other people? No, it's infinite consciousness.  There's also no solipsist 😄

I think it all boils down to undissolved  ego, and "no self" insight. That's solipsism. When it's experienced with no-self  - it's oness. 

In the nutshell:
Consciousness can be aware of INFINITE points of view, but each finite point of view, can only be aware of itself. 

What do you think?

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6 hours ago, Forza21 said:

This occurred to me.

Consciousness is one. Ocean is one. Waves are many, just as body-minds are many.

When one particular body-mind, takes psychedelics, all the infinite in his insight, is packed into it's finite "lens" if you will. (Phil <3) 😄

So in this analogy, the wave might had seen the entire ocean, but it's all packed into its finite point of interest.

So, the wave, might think, it's dreaming all the others waves, and it's alone. 

You as a wave, might be aware only of yourself.

At it goes to every possible waves, the insight is always the same, because ocean is ONE. 

So a character with undissolved ego, might think, that "i'm dreaming other people".

But when you inspect that "I" ,   it can't be found.

So who's dreaming it? If there's no-one?

Does dream character dream other characters? No, it's all one brain.

So does a solipsist dream other people? No, it's infinite consciousness.  There's also no solipsist 😄

I think it all boils down to undissolved  ego, and "no self" insight. That's solipsism. When it's experienced with no-self  - it's oness. 

In the nutshell:
Consciousness can be aware of INFINITE points of view, but each finite point of view, can only be aware of itself. 

What do you think?

 

How do you expect to find the I?  Because you said you cant find it.

 

Other questions that popped up. 
 

I dont imagine the I. I can feel it - it is like part of my exp experience? For example, if I am feeling tired and there is a experience of the I being tired and it might come in different shapes or forms to you or others. Can I change the experience of I? Mby I think I can by shifting into oneness or allowing oneness inside the I but mby it changes by itself. The only thing i can do is to switch into oneness. But does that actually change the I? How do i get a complete understanding of the I?
 

Why is there a division between the I the dream character the oneness in our exp? Can we maintain this devision or can we maintain the lack of division? Why is this relevant for the topic? 
 

To what extend is our introspective knowledge creating a system of beliefs? How consistent or true is this knowledge? 

 

If the I is appearing by itself and the oneness can appear on your own will. What is part of what? 
 

What is a dream character dreaming others? To me it seems just your normal self when you are not oneness. Unless you define it as dream character. 
 

Actually i would go further and say that my exp was that i was much more happy to be a dream character fussed with oneness so to say than to just be oneness.  Things had much more personal meaning and exp was much personal.  

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11 hours ago, Forza21 said:

Consciousness can be aware of INFINITE points of view, but each finite point of view, can only be aware of itself. 

Consciousness = awareness. Consciousness isn’t aware, but rather is awareness. 

Consciousness aware of… would be a duality. Even if ‘itself’ follows of. 

Hence, thought attachment… “the knower” ‘trap’… new ego / spiritual ego…. solipsism…. conjecture. 

Point of view, or points of view, would be finite. 

Infinite can not know, or be aware of, finite. 

 

I once heard a belief explained, such that God needs man (woman, person, human)…  to know itself. There was compassion for the arrogance, but The Joke was, as always, just as funny. 

 

Nothing is packed into ‘the lens’. 

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4 hours ago, Phil said:

Consciousness aware of… would be a duality. Even if ‘itself’ follows of. 

Hence, thought attachment… “the knower” ‘trap’…

Oye, I disagree and even if it were duality, it's only an "apparent" duality. 😊

 

6:50 min. 

"It is my mind or the witness consciousness?"

You're a thought. Do you think a thought is going to occupy 'no thought'.

The 'changeless' can be realized only when the 
ever-changing thought-flow stops.

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48 minutes ago, Phil said:

Sounds more like we’re saying the same thing. Apparent two, but, not two. 

(Are apparent multiple views, multiple views.)

Maybe not. I don’t know. 

😂

Oh ok, I probably misunderstood what you were meaning. So, scratch that, lol. 

 

You're a thought. Do you think a thought is going to occupy 'no thought'.

The 'changeless' can be realized only when the 
ever-changing thought-flow stops.

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9 hours ago, Forza21 said:

14;43



 

You must be misunderstanding when you listen to him, because it's very clear to me that he is not saying solipsism is how the world appears, except when someone is dreaming, then the dream is in the dreamers mind.

 

Through maya pure consciousness projects this whole universe is what he's saying. 

 

*My reply is in two threads since you posted this vid in 2 threads. 

You're a thought. Do you think a thought is going to occupy 'no thought'.

The 'changeless' can be realized only when the 
ever-changing thought-flow stops.

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"The answer" or more accurately "an answer" here is going to depend where you are on your path from my perspective.  Theory is not a be all end all in spiritual enlightenment work.  Theory is a way of thinking differently which can nudge new insights, but it's those transformations that are important -- and those are perceived and felt as a different/new being-in-the-world for you.
 

 

Edited by Joseph Maynor
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@Faith

🙏🏻

 

@Forza21

When 911 happened, there was a video of a speech by George W. Bush where he talked about retaliation. But, he didn’t use that word. He used the word, “crusade”. I remember thinking, wow, what an ego maniacal manipulative asshole. But then when I met him, I felt compassion for his suffering of his delusion. One hell of a lucrative speech giver though, I’ll give Dubs that! That compassion just didn’t arise for a video. Had I met Dubs prior to that speech, the thoughts ‘egomaniacal asshole’ wouldn’t have even arose. Just the compassion for his delusion, and sincerely wishing him clarity, well being and health. 

 

Speaking of Bibles, here’s an interesting true story chalked full of very deep suffering, bravery, courage, Truth and insights therein…https://eastbayexpress.com/the-right-to-confront-your-accuser-1/

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On 4/12/2022 at 3:06 PM, Phil said:

I remember thinking, wow, what an ego maniacal manipulative asshole. But then when I met him, I felt compassion for his suffering of his delusion.

You met Bush? What the heck, who are you😂

 

How do you reconcile compassion with "egomanical assholes" with the suffering they inflict on others? In other words, I'm sure you agree with me that hurting others isn't good, however innocent delusion/ignorance may be. 

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@Forza21 Any talk about point of view is automatically groundless as there is no "point" anywhere and no "view" held by anyone/thing.

 

Seems like the baggage of solipsism/perspectives is finally leaving your system, good! Let go of it all. 

🌞🌚

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