Spiritual Misguidance & Misleadership

[Phil]

Like the weather, spiritual misguidance and misleadership seems to just happen, without any need for separation, such as separate selves. 

 

This thread is for dispelling therein. 

 

Any examples that might be clarifying are welcomed, as well as any questions. 

 

 

One example is the misinformation that there is absolute & relative truth.

 

If there is absolute and relative truth, this implies there is not, absolute truth, as absolute means - absolute, and therefore any “relative truth” would mean truth is not, absolute. So there can’t be, and isn’t, absolute and relative truth. 

 

Such is the pointing of the word - nonduality, or, not two, no second. 

 

Some specific examples of misleadership, which could also be rightfully referred to as manipulation and deception in terms of there being relative truth,  would be that 2 + 2 = 4, and cat is spelled c a t. 

 

At first glance it’s easy to agree that there is, “relative truth”, because after all, 2 + 2 does equal 4, and cat is spelled; c a t… isn’t it?

Initially it seems very obvious these are true, and the notion this is not the case may seem ludicrous. 

 

However, with a little scrutiny, it can be noticed 2, addition, 4, cat, c, a, and t - are apparent finite thoughts, expressed.

 

Put another way, these thoughts expressed are labels expressed. Thought labels, upon, perception. 

 

As these thoughts are believed, indeed it seems like there is, absolute and relative truth. 

 

As these thoughts are not believed, it’s very obvious that “absolute & relative truth” is, a thought, and is not, truth. 

This recognition leave room for the truth, being that which is aware of, these thoughts. 

Or most simply put - awareness. 

 

Put another way…  2 is not truth, addition is not truth, 4 is not truth, cat is not truth, c, a & are not truth.

 

Awareness, The Truth, is aware of these apparent thoughts, 2, addition, 4, cat, c, a, and t. 

 

These shared thoughts are collectively  agreed upon. That doesn’t equate to true or truth.

There is an experience of learning and agreeing that 2 + 2 = 4, and cat is spelled c a t, just as there is an experience of meaning. 

Such as, that the thought & sound “two”, means, 1 and 1, and so on. 

 

Agreeing does not mean, believing or believed. 

 

That is, there is an experience of these thoughts and the meaning therein… yet… an experience of, is not at all the same as these thoughts, and this meaning - being believed. 

 

The specific agreeance is that these thoughts define or represent, a separate thing or object of - perception. 

 

That there is separation, as in separate things or objects is in actuality - a belief. 

 

Thus there is, spiritual misleadership, which does not require a leader, as in - a separate self, any more than the weather requires a weatherman. 

 

That there is a need for a weatherman as it pertains to there being an experience of weather, or a spiritual teacher as it pertains to truth, would be a great example of confusion, about truth being dualistic, as in absolute and relative. In terms of spiritual misleadership, this is a great example of awareness, through the lens awareness is being, purporting to be offering clarity, when in fact confused & offering confusion, and therein there is experientially, manipulation & deception, or, spiritual misleadership. 

 

Awareness aware of awareness, as is, already - is without manipulation & deception, as innocence is - absolute. 

[Blessed2]

 

[solereproduction]

On 12/9/2023 at 10:49 AM, Phil said:

Like the weather, spiritual misguidance and misleadership seems to just happen, without any need for separation, such as separate selves. 

 

This thread is for dispelling therein. 

 

Any examples that might be clarifying are welcomed, as well as any questions. 

 

 

One example is the misinformation that there is absolute & relative truth.

 

If there is absolute and relative truth, this implies there is not, absolute truth, as absolute means - absolute, and therefore any “relative truth” would mean truth is not, absolute. So there can’t be, and isn’t, absolute and relative truth. 

 

Such is the pointing of the word - nonduality, or, not two, no second. 

 

Some specific examples of misleadership, which could also be rightfully referred to as manipulation and deception in terms of there being relative truth,  would be that 2 + 2 = 4, and cat is spelled c a t. 

 

At first glance it’s easy to agree that there is, “relative truth”, because after all, 2 + 2 does equal 4, and cat is spelled; c a t… isn’t it?

Initially it seems very obvious these are true, and the notion this is not the case may seem ludicrous. 

 

However, with a little scrutiny, it can be noticed 2, addition, 4, cat, c, a, and t - are apparent finite thoughts, expressed.

 

Put another way, these thoughts expressed are labels expressed. Thought labels, upon, perception. 

 

As these thoughts are believed, indeed it seems like there is, absolute and relative truth. 

 

As these thoughts are not believed, it’s very obvious that “absolute & relative truth” is, a thought, and is not, truth. 

This recognition leave room for the truth, being that which is aware of, these thoughts. 

Or most simply put - awareness. 

 

Put another way…  2 is not truth, addition is not truth, 4 is not truth, cat is not truth, c, a & are not truth.

 

Awareness, The Truth, is aware of these apparent thoughts, 2, addition, 4, cat, c, a, and t. 

 

These shared thoughts are collectively  agreed upon. That doesn’t equate to true or truth.

There is an experience of learning and agreeing that 2 + 2 = 4, and cat is spelled c a t, just as there is an experience of meaning. 

Such as, that the thought & sound “two”, means, 1 and 1, and so on. 

 

Agreeing does not mean, believing or believed. 

 

That is, there is an experience of these thoughts and the meaning therein… yet… an experience of, is not at all the same as these thoughts, and this meaning - being believed. 

 

The specific agreeance is that these thoughts define or represent, a separate thing or object of - perception. 

 

That there is separation, as in separate things or objects is in actuality - a belief. 

 

Thus there is, spiritual misleadership, which does not require a leader, as in - a separate self, any more than the weather requires a weatherman. 

 

That there is a need for a weatherman as it pertains to there being an experience of weather, or a spiritual teacher as it pertains to truth, would be a great example of confusion, about truth being dualistic, as in absolute and relative. In terms of spiritual misleadership, this is a great example of awareness, through the lens awareness is being, purporting to be offering clarity, when in fact confused & offering confusion, and therein there is experientially, manipulation & deception, or, spiritual misleadership. 

 

Awareness aware of awareness, as is, already - is without manipulation & deception, as innocence is - absolute. 

C.A.T is a literal interpretive truth. 2 + 2 = 4 is a figurative interpretive truth.  Feline defines many breeds of cats.  2 is an integer representing numbers of something  and a second integer 2 is another representing numbers and the combined 4 is a total sum of what 2 plus 2 is literally describing between people's brains communicating with each other about life, past, present, plans to reach when evolving forward together at the same time relative time of occupying space happens between everyone living here now.

 

I just described 6 degrees of separation spontaneously working simultaneously at the same time for everything existing currently existing living as positioned in every reality.

 

What I am reading in your post is the principles from something I heard from the Dalai Lama few decades ago about relative, literal, figurative truths.  That goes beyond duality and no self self.

 

It is from those 3 principle axioms I created these origami figures to represent the framework of Philosophy, Psychology, Physics of Compounding evolving between the natures of molecular characteristics bonding into forms universally present and life in ancestral positions occupying space in series parallel time evolving as occupying time here now.

 

Philosophy to think outside a box or time adapting to one's position occupying space.

first is a 2 dimensional map second is a two sided form with a separate inside from outside spheres of influence.

 

 

Second is axioms of 3 truths, psychology governing from 6 degrees of separation and directing 8 corners representing positions of 8 great grandparents lived prior to the arrival of 4 grandparents adding 2 parenting each great grandchild changing population forward at the same time each great grandchild has the potential to become 1 of 2 parents, 1 of 4 grandparents, 1 of 8 great grandparents if they repeat the biological process that sustained the number lived so far.

 

 

Now to define the arrival time each ancestor evolves within a population of every species, without exception since every lifetime is a unique set of chromosomes in this DNA.

The figure above shows self containment to specific results sharing time occupying space as molecular elements combined and ancestral positions added since inception by conceiving another generation population alive is never same people twice to current 4 generations living as ancestrally positioned forward now. Ask me to explain and I will.  But take into consideration my explanation is from adapting in space as a simple one male human co-existing with the rest of the food chain native in this atmosphere alone, but not by myself with 8 billion other ancestors of multiple ancestral lineages.

 

This isn't grandstanding, it is explaining how life by the numbers present functions without people governing themselves to think intellectually self awareness is more than a brain comparing [past experiences to the circumstance of living doesn't exceed adapting as displaced ancestrally here anymore than molecular elements shaping the universe perpetually moving as galaxies, solar systems, planets revolving around a star where specific conditions exist to support compounding DNA creating unique numbers present as an entire food chain of reproductions perpetually balancing in series parallel space for the sequenced time  as individual;ly "being here now conceived to dead.".

 

No self, self evident process works for anything universally balancing as part of the whole.

[Phil]

@solereproduction

Likely the best possible example, thanks for the contribution to the thread. 

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

@Phil How could there be spiritual misguidance if there are no separate selves?  You seem to be almost a religious devotee to Neo-Advaita and think it's the only true spirituality.  To me this looks rather limited, rather conservative.  Kinda controlling.  Everybody's gotta think like me or they're wrong.  I think that's huge spiritual ego actually.  You can only know spirituality for you.  What you can do for others is share your spirituality with them, but they can decide for themselves what their spirituality is and whether they're misguided and/or you're misguided too.  I know what your response is going to be, but I felt like I needed to chime in here and say something in this thread for my own work.  Misleadership is an interesting topic when it comes to spirituality.  That's  a deep one.  It's not as simple as finding some theory and is the one right rule set for everyone else just because it resonates with you.  You wouldn't want some orthodox religious person to do that to you, right?  You would resist that.  Misleadership is open to interpretation depending on who we're talking to.  Spirituality is not a one-side-fits-all endeavor.  To think it is I think is misguidance.  But this is my opinion, and you're free to disagree and you don't need my permission to do so.  I don't need you to agree with my spirituality or call you misguided or misleading others just because we differ in spiritual points of view.  It's unnecessary.  The only reason it would be necessary is if you're positioning yourself as the teacher of truth for others.  That raises some issues because there are no separate selves!  The snake eats its own tail here.  Please don't get triggered by this.  This is part of my work that I'm doing on here examining all these things.  We don't have to kill someone (figuratively) because their god is different from our god to to speak.  That orthodox religious mentality nonsense.  I actually like it better when people disagree with my spirituality -- then I can learn something from them.

Another amazing example, thank you. 

[Phil]

Deception is, deception. 

‘Ta dah!’

[Orb]

But there really is enlightenment, I became enlightened a few days ago. 

 

Anyone who needs help to become enlightened I'm here for you to guide you towards attaining the enlightened state. 

 

It's the highest state there is. 

 

Are you sold yet?....🥴

[Phil]

Clearly you haven’t experienced Vermilion-Cyclops-Consciousness yet. You have to move past Nonduality by integrating your Divine Feminine. But not too much, or you’ll offset your Divine Masculine. It’s very complex, but don’t worry, I’ll teach you.  

[Nadosa]

I'm more awake than both of you together x 2.

[Blessed2]

I'm so awake that you'd probably die if you were this awake.

 

[Orb]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

Clearly you haven’t experienced Vermilion-Cyclops-Consciousness yet. You have to move past Nonduality by integrating your Divine Feminine. But not too much, or you’ll offset your Divine Masculine. It’s very complex, but don’t worry, I’ll teach you.  

 

57 minutes ago, Nadosa said:

I'm more awake than both of you together x 2.

 

44 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

I'm so awake that you'd probably die if you were this awake.

 

Who is the one saying these things? 

(I'm the most awake btw)

[Phil]

If you died and were me I’d still be more awake than you. 

[Jonas Long]

I've been awake so long I went back to sleep and am still woker than y'all 

Edited March 9 by Jonas Long

[Orb]

One thing I will say on a serious note that ive learned is:

 

after the spiritual awakening put your head down and do all the "work" , resolve behavioral issues via therapy or some modality, journal, be as human as possible and just open up and admit all the conditioning and fucked up stuff with loved ones. Let the universe (mom, dad, friends, family, etc.) know that you can use some help, and the universe will help you clean up.

 

After the spiritual awakening there can be a strong inclination to bypass all of the "work" and be like oh there's no one to do anything so I'm already happiness and it's alright. Meanwhile you're hurting people emotionally and destroying your own life. Which I have done and it's truly not worth it. 

Edited March 8 by Orb

[Blessed2]

Just came across this nonsense:

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C58IvL_LZ08/?igsh=MXYyZGlsYTBrZHA0Zw==

 

About the same as "unconditional love means you must love Hitler too" etc.