spiritual dreams Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 How do you balance the two? I've noticed a conflict between spiritual teachings. Some which say that building a strong and healthy ego is important and others that say that ego should be transcended. In my experience, losing my sense of identity actually feels really discordant. I don't have strong convictions, beliefs or morals or sense of purpose. My relationships become meaningless and I have weak personal boundaries. In fact it seems like not having a strong and healthy ego creates an even worse ego that identifies with having no ego. Like I am even deeper into the delusion. Having no sense of self just feels like being a zombie. How do I balance this? It feels much less discordant to actually feel like I'm me rather than feeling like nothing or that the me is an illusion which must me transcended. I would much rather be a healthy person with strong willpower, relationships, personality and boundaries than some zombie. In fact it seems closer to truth. But how do I make sense of this? Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 3 minutes ago, spiritual dreams said: Some which say that building a strong and healthy ego is important Nope. This is a misunderstanding of the non-dual message. That's like saying "strong and healthy cancer". 5 minutes ago, spiritual dreams said: How do you balance the two? Seen the movie The Matrix? How could this question even come up? What is there to "balance" with the matrix and the real world? Quote Mention There must be an effortless way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritual dreams Posted December 1, 2023 Author Share Posted December 1, 2023 1 minute ago, Blessed2 said: Nope. This is a misunderstanding of the non-dual message. That's like saying "strong and healthy cancer". How so? Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 You can't build a strong and healthy unicorn, you can't be absolutely terrible and deprecating to the unicorn and tear it down, you can't transcend the unicorn. There's nothing to balance between any of it because there's no unicorn. Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritual dreams Posted December 1, 2023 Author Share Posted December 1, 2023 @Mandy ok so there is no ego. Does that mean that self esteem, values, personal boundaries, willpower, ambition, goals, identity, personality etc. are all pointless? Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 @spiritual dreams Those are generalized concepts about unicorns where as the moment is intuition and inspiration and no one has a choice. Personality is fun as in character is fun, and part of the appreciation of diversity. Unicorns in different sizes, shapes and colors are fun but the differences aren't really real. The heart of it is just appreciation in the moment. Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritual dreams Posted December 1, 2023 Author Share Posted December 1, 2023 @Mandy ok but then how exactly do I function then? Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 Just now, spiritual dreams said: @Mandy ok but then how exactly do I function then? Why do you need to know how you function? I don't know how any of the systems in my body function yet they are well being. Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritual dreams Posted December 1, 2023 Author Share Posted December 1, 2023 @Mandy In that case a healthy sense of self and boundaries is just normal healthy functioning right? Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 33 minutes ago, spiritual dreams said: @Mandy In that case a healthy sense of self and boundaries is just normal healthy functioning right? What is a healthy sense of self and boundaries now, not found in thoughts about myself and others? If someone asks you to do something either align with it or say no. Someone I don't know well asked me for money, and I had a conversation with her and asked her some questions and sent her something I found helpful on Amazon, now it feels good like an actual personal gift that is fun to give, where as before I wasn't aligned with sending her money. Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 1 hour ago, spiritual dreams said: How so? How so what? Quote Mention There must be an effortless way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 Just saw this on Facebook. Yes, but who really draws them? Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 6 hours ago, spiritual dreams said: How do you balance the two? (Healthy sense of self vs Egolessness) Before balance of the two, in accordance with direct experience, what are the two? 6 hours ago, spiritual dreams said: I've noticed a conflict between spiritual teachings. Some which say that building a strong and healthy ego is important and others that say that ego should be transcended. In accordance with direct experience, what is ego? What is a strong & healthy ego? What is “transcending ego”? 6 hours ago, spiritual dreams said: In my experience, losing my sense of identity actually feels really discordant. What is ‘sense of identity’? 6 hours ago, spiritual dreams said: I don't have strong convictions, beliefs or morals or sense of purpose. What are those? 6 hours ago, spiritual dreams said: My relationships become meaningless and I have weak personal boundaries. How does that thought self referential thought feel, great or not great? Which emotion is felt? 6 hours ago, spiritual dreams said: In fact it seems like not having a strong and healthy ego creates an even worse ego that identifies with having no ego. There isn’t an ego… yet there is… an even worse ego… and or an ego identifying with having no ego? 6 hours ago, spiritual dreams said: Like I am even deeper into the delusion. What is delusion? 6 hours ago, spiritual dreams said: Having no sense of self just feels like being a zombie. Is this comparison rooted in direct experience? 6 hours ago, spiritual dreams said: How do I balance this? It feels much less discordant to actually feel like I'm me rather than feeling like nothing or that the me is an illusion which must me transcended. Why not keep it simple and just ‘listen’ to feeling? Where did all these ideas and concepts come from in the first place? 6 hours ago, spiritual dreams said: I would much rather be a healthy person with strong willpower, relationships, personality and boundaries than some zombie. In fact it seems closer to truth. But how do I make sense of this? How do thoughts of lack, shortage, unwholeness, incompleteness feel? Great, or not great? What emotion(s) is felt? Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritual dreams Posted December 1, 2023 Author Share Posted December 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Phil said: Before balance of the two, in accordance with direct experience, what are the two? Just a feeling of being myself vs a feeling of not being a self. 1 hour ago, Phil said: In accordance with direct experience, what is ego? What is a strong & healthy ego? What is “transcending ego”? a strong core sense of 'self' that is empowered and in control, with healthy boundaries, and ambitions. This is a feeling in direct experience and does not feel particularly discordant. Transcending ego I'm not sure any more. I guess it really depends on how you define ego. 1 hour ago, Phil said: What is ‘sense of identity’? A feeling of being someone. 1 hour ago, Phil said: How does that thought self referential thought feel, great or not great? Which emotion is felt? pretty not great. Fear and depression. 1 hour ago, Phil said: There isn’t an ego… yet there is… an even worse ego… and or an ego identifying with having no ego? The ego identifying with no ego. which feels worse than just regular ego. 1 hour ago, Phil said: What is delusion? identification with thoughts. 1 hour ago, Phil said: Is this comparison rooted in direct experience? Kinda 1 hour ago, Phil said: Why not keep it simple and just ‘listen’ to feeling? Because what feeling is seemingly in contradiction to what these spriritual teachers are saying. 1 hour ago, Phil said: Where did all these ideas and concepts come from in the first place? Most nondual teachers really. 1 hour ago, Phil said: How do thoughts of lack, shortage, unwholeness, incompleteness feel? Great, or not great? What emotion(s) is felt? obviously not great. But other self referantial thoughts do feel great. For example 'i had a really great time with my friends last night' or 'I am worthy of respect' Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritual dreams Posted December 1, 2023 Author Share Posted December 1, 2023 6 hours ago, Mandy said: Just saw this on Facebook. Yes, but who really draws them? the kids. So does that mean that there is a self that is not the ego? Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritual dreams Posted December 1, 2023 Author Share Posted December 1, 2023 8 hours ago, Blessed2 said: Nope. This is a misunderstanding of the non-dual message. That's like saying "strong and healthy cancer". So is self esteem, ambition, identity, healthy boundaries, willpower and values all like cancer then? Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 14 minutes ago, spiritual dreams said: the kids. So does that mean that there is a self that is not the ego? https://www.etymonline.com/word/ego Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 1 hour ago, spiritual dreams said: Just a feeling of being myself vs a feeling of not being a self. There are two feeling in direct experience? 1 hour ago, spiritual dreams said: a strong core sense of 'self' that is empowered and in control, with healthy boundaries, and ambitions. Is it ok with you if everyone experiences empowerment, or do emotions have to be about you? When you have a strong ego, self referential thoughts like ‘I’m weak’ will no longer be met with the guidance of the emotion powerlessness? How does the ego which knows there are two feeling & that it is not empowered and isn’t experiencing powerlessness… know that in the future when it is stronger all of this will be different? Can everyone except for you express & communicate preferences? How or why does freedom, well being, alignment and consciously creating require or need an owner? 1 hour ago, spiritual dreams said: This is a feeling in direct experience and does not feel particularly discordant. Transcending ego I'm not sure any more. I guess it really depends on how you define ego. How are you differentiating the teachings referred to, on which all of this seems to stand, from common everyday egocentric lies & manipulation? What’s the definition of indoctrination? How does emotional guidance fit into this? 1 hour ago, spiritual dreams said: A feeling of being someone. How are you deciphering that, from this? 1 hour ago, spiritual dreams said: pretty not great. Fear and depression. How does the thought that you have depression feel? What emotion is felt? 1 hour ago, spiritual dreams said: The ego identifying with no ego. which feels worse than just regular ego. Would that be like your left hand identifying with no left hand and that feeling worse than just your regular left hand? 1 hour ago, spiritual dreams said: identification with thoughts. If delusion is identification with thoughts, what’s the word for a false belief? 1 hour ago, spiritual dreams said: Kinda Check until absolutely sure. Then believe in teachings as needed. 1 hour ago, spiritual dreams said: Because what feeling is seemingly in contradiction to what these spriritual teachers are saying. If there are emotions, is there still contradiction? What is the actual reason or logic for listening to self proclaimed teachers, rather than emotions & feeling? How exactly do you expect to feel as yourself, while suppressing yourself in favor of listing to teachers? Ever actually experienced this…. ego? When did you come up with that term anyways? 1 hour ago, spiritual dreams said: Most nondual teachers really. There isn’t a single teacher of nonduality, at least in this frame of reference, which suggests any of what you’re saying here. 1 hour ago, spiritual dreams said: obviously not great. But other self referantial thoughts do feel great. For example 'i had a really great time with my friends last night' or 'I am worthy of respect' Why not let it be as it is… that easy, self-evident and simple? The first thought isn’t about you, it’s about the great time, which was great, and so the thought resonates. Simple honesty. The second thought resonates because self-respect is worthwhile, because your worthiness is immeasurable. Simple humility. Value, meaning, worth, purpose and ego. Bigfoot, boogieman, monster, leprechaun and unicorn. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 11 minutes ago, spiritual dreams said: So is self esteem, ambition, identity, healthy boundaries, willpower and values all like cancer then? The ego is the claiming of a someone who is having, or lacking the goodness assumed to be in these listed conditions. Quote Mention There must be an effortless way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Maynor Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 The scary thing about judgment calls is when you realize the judgment call is yours. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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