What is keeping me from seeing through the veil?

[CoolMonkey]

Right now is the only moment that the truth can be recognized. That's because this is the only moment. So any thought about enlightenment as some kind of checklist ("Oh I have to go through steps X, Y and Z first, or else I couldn't possibly be enlightened"), is just a thought that is being experienced right now. Enlightenment, at least what the word is trying to point towards, isn't some abstract future achievement, that you get after working really hard.

 

I've been thinking about how we project our own truth out into the world. When we see a person acting unconsciously, that's a projection of what we believe to be true for ourselves. If we believe ourselves to be unconscious, we will look at another person and assume that the same must be true for them. Especially if they engage in activities that we've deemed to be "lacking" in consciousness( like criminal stuff or whatever).

On the other hand, we put up unrealistic expectations of what it means to be self-realized. We look at someone who sits in a cave for 10 years and say "Wow, that person must be so enlightened", which is problematic, because you can easily turn that into a game of trying to "prove" your own nature to yourself by performing some kind of miracle. "Well if I am god/if this was a dream, shouldn't I be able to walk on water? I couldn't call myself enlightened if I couldn't walk on water right?".

What if instead, everything was an act, performed by itself, for itself? What if everybody was already deeply self-realized, simply playing an act to imply otherwise.

 

So what is being projected, when you project unconsciousness onto other people? It's a belief. Unconsciousness is a belief. "This can't possibly be what enlightenment looks like, right?".  There is nothing except for self-realization, being realized by itself, forever. Everything is enlightenment unfolding into itself.

 

This has been recognized. So why then... does it feel like this? Why does  it not feel... complete. It feels like something is missing. I am no sure what that feeling is pointing me towards. i just keep going and going, spinning in circles, I feel irritated.

 

It's really difficult to distinguish my being from my thoughts and beliefs. That's probably a consequence of everything being one. I've experienced states of oneness on psychedelics, these states were so profound, magical and mysterious, yet familiar, but... they've also given me expectations of what oneness "feels" like. These expectations don't capture the reality of oneness. Everything is already so intimately interconnected, that it becomes seemingly impossible to make a distinctions between my own being and the thoughts that occur in the apparent human mind. I'm so deeply connected with the idea of separation that it becomes indistinguishable from "actual reality". 

 

The problem seems to be so subtle. So... in between the lines. So implicit. I don't know what to do with all of this. I'd appreciate your input.

[Blessed2]

3 minutes ago, CoolMonkey said:

What if everybody was already deeply self-realized, simply playing an act to imply otherwise.

 

That's pretty close to true forgiveness.

 

Yeah. Everyone is a buddha, literally. The body-personality-thinker-doer is a veil, like an image you are projecting to hide the Buddha.

 

Everyone is waiting for you in Nirvana in perfect compassion and limitless love and forgiveness. The body is a veil you're placing in front of Nirvana, cause you're mistaken about who you are.

 

It goes even as far as to bugs and ants etc. All bugs are Buddhas too, literally just like Jesus. The seemingly very unconscious "bug" is just a projection of your mistaken idea of what you are.

 

 

Practice true forgiveness. Look past the projection to what's eternally innocent, loving and untouched by anything in this world. Because there's only one mind that projects, you'll send the same message to yourself. As you see everyone as Buddhas, you'll see yourself as a Buddha. You'll literally be saved, and all "sins" you think you have made will be made undone. None of this ever happened. The Kingdom has never been damaged one bit, and God cannot be killed.

[Mandy]

15 minutes ago, CoolMonkey said:

What if everybody was already deeply self-realized, simply playing an act to imply otherwise.

It is like that, but there's no act or implication. It is like that because the separation that requires self and other never became. 

 

18 minutes ago, CoolMonkey said:

Why does  it not feel... complete.

Because there isn't any completion. Do you truly WANT there to be completion? Finality? 

19 minutes ago, CoolMonkey said:

i just keep going and going, spinning in circles, I feel irritated.

Irritation is emotional guidance. Are you familiar with the Abraham Hicks emotional scale? Express the irritation, and know it's just guidance.

21 minutes ago, CoolMonkey said:

I'm so deeply connected with the idea of separation that it becomes indistinguishable from "actual reality".

Listen to what you express yourself. I'm connected with the idea of separation. Connection and separation are seemingly opposites, which when recognized makes this statement really funny, and not at all a problem for you, what you really Are. The completeness IS the full circle, is the loop, and is the canceling out of itself and is never, ever done, it is infinite, not finite.  

[Phil]

4 hours ago, CoolMonkey said:

Right now is the only moment that the truth can be recognized. That's because this is the only moment. So any thought about enlightenment as some kind of checklist ("Oh I have to go through steps X, Y and Z first, or else I couldn't possibly be enlightened"), is just a thought that is being experienced right now. Enlightenment, at least what the word is trying to point towards, isn't some abstract future achievement, that you get after working really hard.

Communication through text is extremely limited. This would be a great conversation for one of the monthly calls. 

 

Overall this is the difference between meditation, emptying / dispelling beliefs - cessation… as compared to being influenced by egocentric teachings (purporting) derived of psychedelics & emotional suppression without the foundation of meditation, without ample introspection, dispelling beliefs / actually emptying, and without cessation. Hence, a purporting.

 

The influence & indoctrination in terms of mental & emotional manipulation via the conviction of the delivery isn’t fully noticed or weeded out. It’s much deeper than yet suspected. That is the intention behind it and in that regard it works very well. There really aren’t words which can convey how readily and easily beliefs which aren’t shared / held, which weren’t adopted via indoctrination, stand out plain as day, completely obvious by how the beliefs feel. So to speak, you now think and frame the same way but don’t notice precisely because you are. When the frame of reference is ‘itself’ a product of /  based on foundation beliefs - misunderstanding & misidentification, so is everything that follows. A ‘house of cards’. 

 

4 hours ago, CoolMonkey said:

 

I've been thinking about how we project our own truth out into the world. When we see a person acting unconsciously, that's a projection of what we believe to be true for ourselves. If we believe ourselves to be unconscious, we will look at another person and assume that the same must be true for them. Especially if they engage in activities that we've deemed to be "lacking" in consciousness( like criminal stuff or whatever).

On the other hand, we put up unrealistic expectations of what it means to be self-realized. We look at someone who sits in a cave for 10 years and say "Wow, that person must be so enlightened", which is problematic, because you can easily turn that into a game of trying to "prove" your own nature to yourself by performing some kind of miracle. "Well if I am god/if this was a dream, shouldn't I be able to walk on water? I couldn't call myself enlightened if I couldn't walk on water right?".

What if instead, everything was an act, performed by itself, for itself? What if everybody was already deeply self-realized, simply playing an act to imply otherwise.

 

So what is being projected, when you project unconsciousness onto other people? It's a belief. Unconsciousness is a belief. "This can't possibly be what enlightenment looks like, right?".  There is nothing except for self-realization, being realized by itself, forever. Everything is enlightenment unfolding into itself.

 

This has been recognized. So why then... does it feel like this?

That hasn’t been recognized. That was learned. If that was recognized it would not feel like this. There’s a certain obviousness that stands to ‘click’ here. 

 

That people are conscious or not, awake or not, high conscious or low conscious, that people awaken or become enlightened or to varying degrees or levels… the entirety of this activity of thought is false & egocentric, and what’s overlooked is that this activity of thought is even occurring, and why, where it came from, how it arose in the first place. It did not come from meditation or direct experience. It didn’t come from you. It was all heard. This is how mental & emotional manipulation under the guise of spirituality is. Sorry, but anything less would be more of the same disservice and absence of integrity. 

 

4 hours ago, CoolMonkey said:

Why does  it not feel... complete. It feels like something is missing. I am no sure what that feeling is pointing me towards. i just keep going and going, spinning in circles, I feel irritated.

Same experience as ‘who’ all of this nonsense comes from. It’s nonsensical and illogical to expect to listen to such material and experience anything else. 

Self referential thoughts are ignored. Emotions aren’t per se actually felt, but are conceptualized and therein ignored. This is learned and requires suppression and again, conviction in the delivery. This is not natural, it’s egocentric deception. 

 

4 hours ago, CoolMonkey said:

 

It's really difficult to distinguish my being from my thoughts and beliefs.

Thought attachment & self referential thoughts have been disregarded and replaced by conceptual “spirituality”, which is actually spiritual bypassing. 

No one is a cult believes or admits they are in a cult because they actually aren’t aware they are. That’s how a cult works. All of the benefit is for the leader of the cult. Money, fame, self image, notoriety, sex etc. This is not spirituality. 

 

4 hours ago, CoolMonkey said:

That's probably a consequence of everything being one.

Everything is not one and you didn’t even come up with that. You learned it and now believe it’s true do to the conviction with which it was taught. Not to beat a dead horse, but you have no idea how deep the reach of the mental and emotional manipulation is. I can only imagine how this sounds, but again it’s very obvious when the same beliefs aren’t held / the same material hasn’t been watched / the indoctrination baked in hasn’t occurred. 

 

4 hours ago, CoolMonkey said:

I've experienced states of oneness on psychedelics,

No you have not.

You’ve been influenced to frame / think that way and aren’t noticing. You believe in states by overlooking the emperor’s new clothes. There is no such thing or experience. It’s a an aspect of indoctrination. Psychedelics are absolutely irrelevant to spirituality. These are beliefs which feel off, overlooked. 

 

4 hours ago, CoolMonkey said:

these states were so profound, magical and mysterious, yet familiar, but... they've also given me expectations of what oneness "feels" like.

No they aren’t and no they have not.

None of what’s referred to as expectations came from any of what it’s believed to have come from. It’s a way of thinking so to speak, of framing. It is egocentric and this isn’t noticed. It’s felt and ignored and this is also ‘baked into’ the indoctrination. 

 

4 hours ago, CoolMonkey said:

These expectations don't capture the reality of oneness.

You didn’t come up with “reality of oneness”. It’s learned conjecture. There is no such thing or experience. 

 

4 hours ago, CoolMonkey said:

Everything is already so intimately interconnected, that it becomes seemingly impossible to make a distinctions between my own being and the thoughts that occur in the apparent human mind.

Because thought attachment was / is essentially entirely skipped, disregarded, disrespected, disparaged… and the indoctrination is a psychological wrap around of this fact, an egomaniacal, extremely well thought out covering up. You’re unaware of this and so is the one, so to speak, it all came from. Unaware it’s now a shared belief system, a doctrine. All which don’t subscribe & succumb are excommunicated. That should be a rather obvious clue, but again, that aspect is anticipated and measures put in place well ahead of time. Rationalizations are convincing indoctrination too. 

 

4 hours ago, CoolMonkey said:

I'm so deeply connected with the idea of separation that it becomes indistinguishable from "actual reality". 

Address it directly, not conceptually. 

 

4 hours ago, CoolMonkey said:

 

The problem seems to be so subtle. So... in between the lines. So implicit. I don't know what to do with all of this. I'd appreciate your input.

It’s not subtle, or at least it isn’t the more it’s inspected. 

[Phil]

On 8/25/2023 at 3:30 AM, CoolMonkey said:

There are times where I'm perfectly capable of doing so. Even when there is an episode of suffering, there are sometimes minor 1 - 2 second glimpses of this throughout my days. It's a little frustrating because I seem to be constantly loosing grip of that state, but ironically the only way to get "in" to that state is by letting go of this grip in the first place. I'm not sure why I don't want to let go. In a sense I'm selflessly and lovingly giving space for this suffering to take shape. All my life I've giving myself the space to suffer as much as I wanted to. Maybe even as I needed to. 

 

I've been able to step into this higher level of love before, but life appears so grand and complex that I just keep loosing myself within this appearance. It feels like I'm looking into the mirror, marveling at my own image, but I'm so deeply engaged in my own image that I've started confusing the image with myself. I don't know why it appears this way.

 

 

I've been looking for therapy for a few years. I've talked to a couple of therapists, but I resonated with none of them. I did finally find one that I resonate with, but as I've said, I'll have to wait for another two years before I may get a spot (depending on whether he has any free spots by then). I'm also on a waiting list for long-term therapy in a depression clinic. I don't know what that will bring, but I think it's my best shot for now.

Weird how the Good news can seem like someone just being a jerk, but for the sake of seeing through the veil, notice the role ‘states’ plays. There is no such thing or experience.

 

Notice the role ‘levels’ play. There is no such thing or experience.

 

Of course that seems grand and complex - that’s the intention behind it. Truth could not be more simple.

 

Of course the image is confused with the self. That’s thought attachment and the fundamental ignorance behind the ‘teaching’ (indoctrination ‘into’ the same, the ignoring of thought attachment and emotions). Of course none of this is  going to resonate with therapists - they’re not interested in indoctrinating and they’re not suppressing emotions and they have no ulterior motive. They’re interested in your health and well being. They are (by and large) not bitter and egomaniacal. They’ve (by and large) actually introspected and are coming from honesty & integrity. 

 

Depression is a word for attempting to internalize and ‘make true’ what does not resonate because it isn’t.

 

The biggest blind spot at play is not noticing the intentions behind what you’ve been told and who it is and isn’t profitable for. 

 

Jesus walking on water is about doubt, fear, courage… the effervescence of the true nature. Might be covered up in a way, by so many concepts. 

[Sunrise]

@CoolMonkey Some deep introspection and insights, my friend. 
 

I can relate to a deeply ingrained sense of separation. Perhaps it’s ingrained in our DNA through human evolution as well as cultural conditioning. I’ve experienced lots of frustration and confusion in this space - especially when I was transitioning into more Holistic spaces. 
 

You mentioned a space of Oneness that is magical and mysterious. That World of Oneness can seem quite different than the World of separation. At times it felt like I go back and forth between the two Worlds. Yet then the two Worlds began to merge and interact. For example, at times I’m in a group of people and there is a unique, separate entity of “me” interacting with outside entities of “them”. Simultaneously, there is one collective group consciousness. Now, becoming the observer and creator becomes very interesting. So many insights appear in this space. 
 

For me, a key is not rejecting aspects of separation as bad / wrong / undesirable. Rather, to realize separation is an aspect within a larger Whole. That allowed a shift in how I relate to aspects of separation. 

[Orb]

@CoolMonkey I'm my experience, there is a progressive deepening of inspection of the nature of suffering and the beliefs causing the suffering. 

 

The suffering beliefs are like an onion, with each layer pulled away more luminosity/life/awareness seems to come flooding in. 

 

With each existential belief that falls away, there's more and more clarifying of presence/awareness. It's more of a regression back into what you naturally have always been rather than a progression to some higher state. Experience becomes more simple, there's less of a sense of there being someone in the middle of experience experiencing it, that sense begins to fall away because it's just an assumption.

 

What's keeping you from SEEING through the veil? 

 

First I'd question the notion of seeing/observing. 

 

Inspect the nature of attention and see if there's anyone looking or an awareness behind the eyes aware of stuff. 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Orb

[Blessed2]

This might open some doors...

 

"Oneness" doesn't mean that everything in the universe connected to everything else, or that you are one with the universe or God.

 

"Oneness" points to non-duality.

 

Non-duality is the only reality.

 

There is no separate things that could be one, like a you and a universe being one.

 

There isn't neither of those, a you or a universe.

 

The universe isn't a creation of God, or an expression of Source, or "God appearing to itself" or anything like that.

 

The universe is a projection of the ego, and it disappears (or is noticed to never have appeared to begin with) when the ego is unmade.

 

Self-Realization is the non-appearance of the universe.

 

[James123]

On 9/24/2023 at 2:32 PM, CoolMonkey said:

Right now is the only moment that the truth can be recognized. That's because this is the only moment. So any thought about enlightenment as some kind of checklist ("Oh I have to go through steps X, Y and Z first, or else I couldn't possibly be enlightened"), is just a thought that is being experienced right now. Enlightenment, at least what the word is trying to point towards, isn't some abstract future achievement, that you get after working really hard.

 

I've been thinking about how we project our own truth out into the world. When we see a person acting unconsciously, that's a projection of what we believe to be true for ourselves. If we believe ourselves to be unconscious, we will look at another person and assume that the same must be true for them. Especially if they engage in activities that we've deemed to be "lacking" in consciousness( like criminal stuff or whatever).

On the other hand, we put up unrealistic expectations of what it means to be self-realized. We look at someone who sits in a cave for 10 years and say "Wow, that person must be so enlightened", which is problematic, because you can easily turn that into a game of trying to "prove" your own nature to yourself by performing some kind of miracle. "Well if I am god/if this was a dream, shouldn't I be able to walk on water? I couldn't call myself enlightened if I couldn't walk on water right?".

What if instead, everything was an act, performed by itself, for itself? What if everybody was already deeply self-realized, simply playing an act to imply otherwise.

 

So what is being projected, when you project unconsciousness onto other people? It's a belief. Unconsciousness is a belief. "This can't possibly be what enlightenment looks like, right?".  There is nothing except for self-realization, being realized by itself, forever. Everything is enlightenment unfolding into itself.

 

This has been recognized. So why then... does it feel like this? Why does  it not feel... complete. It feels like something is missing. I am no sure what that feeling is pointing me towards. i just keep going and going, spinning in circles, I feel irritated.

 

It's really difficult to distinguish my being from my thoughts and beliefs. That's probably a consequence of everything being one. I've experienced states of oneness on psychedelics, these states were so profound, magical and mysterious, yet familiar, but... they've also given me expectations of what oneness "feels" like. These expectations don't capture the reality of oneness. Everything is already so intimately interconnected, that it becomes seemingly impossible to make a distinctions between my own being and the thoughts that occur in the apparent human mind. I'm so deeply connected with the idea of separation that it becomes indistinguishable from "actual reality". 

 

The problem seems to be so subtle. So... in between the lines. So implicit. I don't know what to do with all of this. I'd appreciate your input.

The problem is "you". Surrender till nothing left. You are on the way of the veil, when you is gone, you will realize that you are the veil itself.

[Phil]

It doesn’t sound like you aren’t ‘seeing through the veil’ per se, it sounds like you haven’t realized the true nature or absolute unconditional essence of consciousness.
 

‘Clues’ in this regard…

 

What if everybody was already deeply self-realized, simply playing an act to imply otherwise.

 

I feel irritated.

 

my being.

 

everything being one.

 

I've experienced states.

 

A consequence of everything being one.
 

I've experienced states

 

states we’re so profound,

 

what oneness "feels" like.
 

the reality of oneness.

 

Everything is already so intimately interconnected,

 

my own being

 

human mind.
 

I'm so deeply connected

 

 

Oneness & states are lovely yet this isn’t quite the same as enlightenment / Nonduality.