Meditation

[MetaSage]

I make a distinction between meditation and contemplation. 

 

Meditation, at its root, comes from the latin "med-", meaning to heal. It is calming, controlling, mastering the mind. It is aimed at things such as relaxing, healing, increasing vitality, letting chi (life energy) flow throughout the body, etc.

Contemplation is setting out to experience what's true about a given subject. Zazen would be an example of this. It is done with the intent to achieve satori or kensho (first glimpse). It can be done in any environment and doesn't need a formal posture, routine or worldview to accommodate to it.

 

What would you say to this?

Edited August 6, 2023 by MetaSage

[Phil]

19 hours ago, MetaSage said:

I make a distinction between meditation and contemplation. 

 

Meditation, at its root, comes from the latin "med-", meaning to heal.

But it’s not called medtation… it’s called meditation. Medi means middle. Ation implies middle as an action or process, a way.  Meditation is ‘the middle way’. Not identified as a person, nor identified as God, via no longer believing thoughts. (What is infinite of course has no identity and identification is of course thought attachment / the believing of thoughts).

 

That meditation is healing is lovely and it’s not like I’m saying that’s wrong or anything, but it is obscuring as there is an implication there is someone ‘there’ being healed, in need of healing or to heal or be healed by something. When the activity of thought fizzles out it’s very obvious there’s no one ‘there’ in need of healing or to be healed, as that was a thought narration believed about a separate self, an identity. It’s then clear thoughts don’t actually label anything… ‘in’ perception / sensation if you will, including the thoughts perception & sensation. 

 

19 hours ago, MetaSage said:

It is calming, controlling, mastering the mind. It is aimed at things such as relaxing, healing, increasing vitality, letting chi (life energy) flow throughout the body, etc.

The beauty of meditation is the fizzling out of the activity of thought and therein of narratives / narration which revolves around an identity / the separate self of thoughts. Only the truth or true nature, that which is infinite & unconditional, which therein no words or thoughts actually apply to, remains. Is already the case. Again not per se saying it’s wrong, just that the implication is of someone controlling something, mastering a mind, or that there is healing, vitality, chi etc for is the activity of thought. (Nothing ‘wrong’ with thoughts; ‘wrong’ is just another thought). 🤍

 

19 hours ago, MetaSage said:

Contemplation is setting out to experience what's true about a given subject. Zazen would be an example of this. It is done with the intent to achieve satori or kensho (first glimpse). It can be done in any environment and doesn't need a formal posture, routine or worldview to accommodate to it.

 

What would you say to this?

The implication is of a self, a doer, an achiever. It’s a keeping a narrative going compared to a fizzling out of thoughts / narration. Satori / kensho / glimpse is precisely reality as is, which is to say without separation, including any implications (of thought) of a separate self. Satori / kensho is already and always the case, but seemingly obscured by the activity of thought. Like the sun is already and always shining, but can seem not to be via clouds (thoughts) and even the moon (ego), in the sense there can be a belief in moonlight. 

 

[MetaSage]

@Phil thank "you" 😉 

 

 

 

I might be wrong about the "med-" part, I heard it somewhere.

 

meditation (n.)

c. 1200, meditacioun, "contemplation; devout preoccupation; private devotions, prayer," from Old French meditacion "thought, reflection, study," and directly from Latin meditationem (nominative meditatio) "a thinking over, meditation," noun of action from past-participle stem of meditari "to meditate, think over, reflect, consider," from a frequentative form of PIE root *med- "take appropriate measures." Meaning "meditative discourse on a subject" is early 14c.; meaning "act of meditating, continuous calm thought upon some subject" is from late 14c. The Latin verb also had stronger senses: "plan, devise, practice, rehearse, study."

[Celestial]

@Phil

How do you know which technique is the right one? Is it the one that resonates the most, or the one that is the most enjoyable? Or maybe the technique that you are the most averse to could actually be the most beneficial? 

 

How does Self-Inquiry compare to meditation and when does it come into play?

 

How much of the path should be about practice as opposed to theoretical knowledge or listening to pointers? 

 

🙏

[Phil]

26 minutes ago, Celestial said:

@Phil

How do you know which technique is the right one? Is it the one that resonates the most, or the one that is the most enjoyable? Or maybe the technique that you are the most averse to could actually be the most beneficial? 

Meditation as in feeling breathing from the stomach, generally or most broadly speaking is really best described as - other-than-thoughts about there being ‘the one’ certain meditations are or aren’t right for, or who benefits. That’s the very activity of thought that comes to rest.

 

There are also these meditations which are more specific and pertain more to a less discordant & confusing emptying of the body emptying of self referential thoughts & beliefs, and therein all misunderstanding, misinterpretation & misidentification that seems to come with the activity of thinking.

 

26 minutes ago, Celestial said:

How does Self-Inquiry compare to meditation and when does it come into play?

Self Inquiry is the proposed question of what is the feeling of being me, and an allowing of all thoughts to come & go as the answer to what is the feeling of inherently can’t be a thought. 

 

26 minutes ago, Celestial said:

 

How much of the path should be about practice as opposed to theoretical knowledge or listening to pointers? 

 

🙏

The path to what? It really depends on that.

 

If what’s meant is a path to yourself, you’re already yourself, possibly obscured by the activity of thought.

 

If what’s meant is a path of clarity around manifestation of preferences, allowing insights, genuine relationships, etc…

https://www.actualityofbeing.com/creator-creating-creation-contemplation

… and the Tools page…

https://www.actualityofbeing.com/tools.

 

 

[Celestial]

@Phil

So I guess any meditation technique is far greater than not sitting.

 

18 minutes ago, Phil said:

The path to what? It really depends on that.

Complete happiness. But yes also, a life with genuine relationships & full of love for every aspect.

 

19 minutes ago, Phil said:

https://www.actualityofbeing.com/creator-creating-creation-contemplation

First time I've seen this and I love it.

[Phil]

7 hours ago, Celestial said:

So I guess any meditation technique is far greater than not sitting.

I suggest this as daily morning meditation.

https://www.actualityofbeing.com/basic-meditation-posture-balance-relaxation-body-scan

 

8 hours ago, Celestial said:

How much of the path should be about practice as opposed to theoretical knowledge or listening to pointers? 

7 hours ago, Celestial said:

Complete happiness.

I suggest the same daily morning meditation with respect to happiness. The reason why is happiness is nondual and doesn’t actually come & go. Complete & incomplete don’t really apply to happiness.

 

Unhappiness comes & goes and always has a reason because unhappiness is how some thoughts feel.

 

When the activity of thought is allowed to meditatively settle, so is the reason, which is a thought or thoughts, and therefore the unhappiness felt of some thoughts goes too. The allowing of the settling is the un-obscuring of the already-present underlying nondual happiness. Actual, non-conceptual reality. 

 

Because what is already the case (nondual happiness) is what’s appearing as thoughts… there is no thinking one’s way to what is already the case.

 

Such thinking, or a ‘path’ to happiness in that regard is aversion from feeling / the avoidance of adopting the practice and could be addressed by expression. Specifically expression of emotions experienced. When the bodymind is emptied of discordant thoughts & emotions, thought activity naturally calms and there is peace of mind. When emotion is ignored or suppressed, the mind gets busy trying to solve this “problem of unhappiness”. 

 

7 hours ago, Celestial said:

But yes also, a life with genuine relationships & full of love for every aspect.

Let’s say the bodymind experiences life, relationships and love because it’s probably easier to think about meditation in a subject object way.

 

The bodymind being the subject… and life, relationships and love being objects.

 

Meditation, as focus being on other than thoughts… allows the bodymind to fill up with the very ‘substance’… that the content of thoughts is or was implying will or could be found in experience, a future experience, or as the result of a future experience. This is the very activity of thought happiness is appearing as, which is obscuring happiness. 

 

If you want the carpet clean, you don’t turn the carpet on. You turn the vacuum on. 

 

If you want to light up a room, you don’t put the batteries in the room. You put them in the flashlight. 

 

If you want a lush green lawn, you don’t turn the lawn on. You turn the faucet on. 

 

If you want a balloon to float, you don’t turn a balloon on. You turn the helium on. 

 

If you want to dance, you don’t turn a dance on. You turn the music on. 

[Celestial]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

I suggest this as daily morning meditation.

https://www.actualityofbeing.com/basic-meditation-posture-balance-relaxation-body-scan

 

Saw this just after I woke up and did about an hour. 

 

There was this constant sort of pit feeling in the stomach area, not too sure what to think about that besides just allowing it.

 

Honestly I think the main thing that's bothering me with regards to meditation is that there's so many different techniques, I experience doubt about if I'm practising the 'right' one. This also could be the way the mind avoids actually meditating by ruminating about all the different techniques. 

 

I hope this isn't derailing the thread btw

[Phil]

10 minutes ago, Celestial said:

I hope this isn't derailing the thread btw

Not at all! It’s what the thread’s about! 🙏🏼 

 

 

Breathe from your stomach right now. 

 

That’s it. Simple. Just continue. If attention goes to thoughts, just return it to breathing from the stomach. 

 

11 minutes ago, Celestial said:

There was this constant sort of pit feeling in the stomach area, not too sure what to think about that besides just allowing it

Underlying that, there must be a thought about fixing something or getting something… and wether or not you’re doing it right / it’s going to work. 

[Celestial]

3 minutes ago, Phil said:

Underlying that, there must be a thought about fixing something or getting something… and wether or not you’re doing it right / it’s going to work. 

Yeah it seemed to be connected to doubt about the future in particular about if I'm going to make the right decisions etc.. how'd you know lol?

 

Is this when I'd notice that and simply just focus on breathing from the stomach?

[Phil]

21 minutes ago, Celestial said:

Is this when I'd notice that and simply just focus on breathing from the stomach?

🎯 

[Links]

On 5/5/2023 at 4:44 PM, Phil said:

By every morning, what’s also suggested is starting small and increasing the sit. Loosely speaking that might look like 5 - 10 minutes initially, and increasing to an hour or more. 

 

Making it into a daily routine is what I try to do, but I find it difficult to maintain. Somehow the lure of 'doing' practical stuff pulls me away from the practice of sitting and simply 'being'.  I have thoughts interfering such as "I'm not a morning person," or "I'll meditate last thing at night when I've finished doing everything else", or "meditation takes me away from spending time with my family" etc.   Then 'last thing at night' means I'm tired and my awareness is sleepy and drifting off. 

 

So my meditation is rather sporadic and I'm not seeing the full potential benefits.  I don't have any problem with techniques, I have over time settled into a selection which work well for me.  Maybe I could try and use will power on myself: just sit down and whatever thoughts and emotional resistance comes up, use that as part of the meditation.  Starting low with 5-10 minutes should be achievable without too much inner conflict. 

[Phil]

@Links

[Links]

23 hours ago, Phil said:

@Links

 

Thanks Phil, and I like that he has a beer on the side! 

 

I'm thinking of journalling about my practice which may help motivate me, at least till I get over this 'hump'. 

[Phil]

@Links

Can also question the thoughts, flip the script basically. How is daily meditation a maintaining of anything? Who is in time, maintaining? Isn’t the narrative about meditation what’s being maintained? Isn’t that thoughts, and isn’t thoughts what’s let go in meditation by returning attention to feeling breathing in the stomach? Is meditation about maintaining, or liberation? 

 

Who knows there is ‘practical stuff’? Isn’t that an interpretation, essentially no more then thoughts? Is there any ‘practical stuff’ in perception?

 

My awareness…? 

Who are what does that my reference?

 

My meditation…? 

There might be the claiming of meditation as a possession. As mine. 

Who’s?

 

Maybe the full benefit isn’t in perception. Maybe this is assumed, and even written off as semantical, while meditation could be said to dispel the very belief that thoughts define perception.

 

When it is said techniques or a selection work well for me… is that merely linguistic and awareness is well aware that it is, or is that a thought about a separate self… for whom meditation is working for? 

 

Wouldn’t using will power on myself require that there are two of me?

 

32 minutes ago, Links said:

I'm thinking of journalling about my practice which may help motivate me, at least till I get over this 'hump'. 

What if the separate self of thoughts is the hump?

The ‘one who could, might, needs to get over this’, the ‘one’ for whom there is something to get over?

Maybe that is ultimately the point of meditation; cessation of suffering.

 

Maybe there isn’t emotional resistance. Maybe there is no inner conflict. Maybe the resistance is of these thoughts, and emotion relays this and is guidance, not resistance.

 

 

[WhiteOwl]

42 minutes ago, Phil said:

What if the separate self of thoughts is the hump?

The ‘one who could, might, needs to get over this’, the ‘one’ for whom there is something to get over?

 

Its so very clear that there is nobody behind the thoughts, but when does the self referential thoughts stop having momentum?  By continuing to question and putting focus on something else?

 

[Phil]

Not per se continuing to question, but questioning the thought which is now and only now arising. In this instance about time passing. What’s behind thoughts doesn’t know what time is. 

 

The only reason it would be preferable for self referential thoughts to stop is if they’re discordant. For any thought which feels discordant with self there is a reason. Something about the thought which isn’t indicative of or accurate of the true nature. Aligning a thought and there being no more discord of the thought are one and the same, two sides of the same coin. Same thing put another way… an emotion is felt and is guidance. 

[Dima]

🙏❤️

[Phil]

Why meditate each morning?

 

What might happen isn’t happening.

What could happen in a future isn’t happening. 

What may have happened in a past isn’t happening. 

This and that isn’t who or what you are. 

 

As these activities of thought settle, peace, happiness, presence and clarity are more pronounced as the space between the thoughts. 

[Someone here]

10 minutes ago, Phil said:

Why meditate each morning?

 

What might happen isn’t happening.

What could happen in a future isn’t happening. 

What may have happened in a past isn’t happening. 

This and that isn’t who or what you are. 

 

As these activities of thought settle, peace, happiness, presence and clarity are more pronounced as the space between the thoughts. 

Pure gold 🤩

When is your book coming BTW ?

I will be the first one purchasing it .