Christian Non Duality Thread

[Orb]

‭‭1 Corinthians 13:8 NIV‬‬

[8] Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

 

Orbs notes: Knowledge, Prophecy, and tongues are all temporary appearances within the Godhead, it is the Love of God that never ceases and is Truly Eternal.

 

‭‭Matthew 5:16 NIV‬‬

[16] In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

 

Orbs notes: when we "shine our light" aka abide in and embody the Love of God/Christ, others feel this and are naturally inspired to search for their own Source (Christ/God)

 

‭‭1 Corinthians 13:12 NIV‬‬

[12] For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

 

 

Orbs Notes: Paul was without a doubt in full communion with our Father. 

 

at first he's referring to the reflective world of knowledge/thought (for now we see only a reflection). Then he mentions that "we shall see face to face" which refers to the full communion with God aka seeing him in his full glory. 

 

now I know in part (Now I am experiencing the reflective world of thought), then I shall know fully (Completion in christ, experience no longer veiled by thoughts, seeing "the light" that thoughts are covering), even as I am fully known (I am truly already and always Fullness/Wholeness in God/Christ, no matter what, yet I seemingly experience forgetting this and falling for the illusion the reflection creates, and then remembering the Glory/Wholeness of God

 

Edited March 25 by Orb

[Blessed2]

How do you guys see the Lord's Prayer?

 

The past few days I've felt called to recite it every now and then. It seems to be coming from the recognition that I can't manage life (get it done, get what I want, live happily) by myself. It feels very aligned to hand it over to something that can manage and get it done. And the Lord's Prayer seems to hit that spot. It feels pretty great.

 

Do you think that Jesus actually shared the prayer like it says in the Bible?

 

Here's the traditional translation:

 

Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name;
thy kingdom come;
thy will be done;
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation;
but deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom,
the power and the glory,
for ever and ever.
Amen.

 

 

Edited April 4 by Blessed2

[A Tim]

On 4/3/2024 at 8:45 PM, Blessed2 said:

Do you think that Jesus actually shared the prayer like it says in the Bible?

No, I would say the two places it is documented are the authors' best efforts at recalling what was said. It's only in there twice, and it's a little different in each. If memory serves, there is a version in Matthew and the other in maybe Luke...?

 

Anyway, I render it a bit differently after reading a couple of books that dissect it in detail. 

 

Our father in heaven, 

be thy name hallowed, 

be done thy will

as in heaven, so on earth. 

Give us today our daily bread.

Forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us. 

Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. 

[Blessed2]

On 4/4/2024 at 3:45 AM, Blessed2 said:

Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name;
thy kingdom come;
thy will be done;
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation;
but deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom,
the power and the glory,
for ever and ever.
Amen.

 

IMO it would make more sense as:

 

Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name;
thy kingdom is come;
thy will is done;
on earth as it is in heaven.
You do give us this day our daily bread.
And you do forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
And you do lead us not into temptation;
but you do deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom,
the power and the glory,
for ever and ever.
Amen.

 

IMO it's not like we're asking when we pray, it's more like we recognize what already is when we pray.

 

9 minutes ago, A Tim said:

No, I would say the two places it is documented are the authors' best efforts at recalling what was said. It's only in there twice, and it's a little different in each. If memory serves, there is a version in Matthew and the other in maybe Luke...?

 

It's in there twice?! I didn't realize that.

 

You still think that Jesus actually shared that prayer though? Why do you think he shared a specific prayer like that instead of let's say a meditation practice?

 

 

Why did Jesus talk about God/Father, but Buddha didn't? 🤔

 

[A Tim]

16 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

You still think that Jesus actually shared that prayer though? Why do you think he shared a specific prayer like that instead of let's say a meditation practice?

I do believe Jesus actually instructed his followers to pray in a fashion along those lines, yea. His reasons? No idea. I've been listening to a series podcast where they really dig into the NT and discuss how much differently we understand what's documented vs. what contemporary people to Jesus would have understood; both word meaning by also cultural context. I think it's called The Bible Project. It's incredible how much it changes the meaning of what Jesus was teaching, and how much of a foundational shift it brings to the entire premise. If you're interested in books, NT Wright is a good place to poke around also. 

 

I came up Catholic; I'm guessing you did also, based on your version of the Lord's Prayer? It'll shake things up for you in a good way, if you're interested. 

 

23 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

Why did Jesus talk about God/Father, but Buddha didn't? 🤔

Buddha answered questions about God that people posed. From what I recall, he would answer both in the affirmative and negative dependent upon the questioner. I think it's even mentioned that he does it because whichever answer he gave that person - wouldn't help them uproot their "actual issue" and instead reinforce a belief without examination. It's definitely in the Suttas, but I can't remember which. Digha Nikaya?

 

To be fair - I don't believe Buddha gives a personal opinion on God's existence. However, prior to awakening he was all-in on Brahmanism, I think, so he at least started out seeking an assumed God. It was the cause for his initial quest of awakening and why he ran out on his wife and children to eat rice and meditate all day. 

 

[A Tim]

31 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

Why do you think he shared a specific prayer like that instead of let's say a meditation practice?

It occurred to me after the fact, sorry for spamming you up. 

 

We often overlook that Jesus is Jewish. He wouldn't have had to advise new things if, more or less, what was practiced may have been practical to the people practicing it. Jews pray and worship God and so forth. There was a practice at the time, I read about, where it was common to pray by observing spinning chariot wheels. I forget the details of it, but it was a concentration contemplation, as I recall. Prayer and meditation aren't really different, there's just common understanding versus practice. St. John of the Cross and St. Theresa of Avila were big time pray-ers who had some big time meditation experiences... I mean... prayer experiences. 

 

Jesus also taught that fasting was a fact of life and a means by which one could become closer to God. It was already a custom, so his delivery isn't as obvious in that he says, "When you fast do not be like the hypocrites, but..." There's a built-in assumption. Anyway, my only point is that understanding what Jewish people of the day were doing lends a lot to why some things weren't explicitly documented about Jesus. 

[Blessed2]

The Parable of the Unmerciful Servant

 

21 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?”

 

22 Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.

 

23 “Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24 As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand bags of gold was brought to him. 25 Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.

 

26 “At this the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ 27 The servant’s master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.

 

28 “But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred silver coins. He grabbed him and began to choke him. ‘Pay back what you owe me!’ he demanded.

 

29 “His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay it back.’

 

30 “But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31 When the other servants saw what had happened, they were outraged and went and told their master everything that had happened.

 

32 “Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33 Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ 34 In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

 

35 “This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”

 

[Orb]

[13] But everything exposed by the light becomes visible—and everything that is illuminated becomes a light.

 

- ‭Ephesians 5:13 NIV‬