Shame Vs Guilt

[Phil]

 

 

Shame is a thought.      

Guilt is an emotion. 

 

 

 

Shame is a thought - about a self - that does not exist. 

Guilt is an emotion - felt by - the self which is existence. 

 

 

 

Shame is only the thought; ‘shame’. 

Guilt is not only the thought, ‘guilt’. 

 

 

 

Shame is not an emotion. 

Guilt is an emotion. 

 

 

 

Expression of shame is expression of a concept, about a non-existent self. 

Expression of guilt is expression of an emotion, which is felt. 

 

 

 

 

 

Shame is a thought loop;

A thought about a non-existent self…

and…

Shame, shaming, shamed, ashamed or shameful.

 

 

 

 

Emotional expression is the dispelling of self referential beliefs. 

Of thought loops.

Of suffering. 

Of discord.

 

Self is infinite love. 

Infinite can not know finite. 

[Blessed2]

I don't follow.

 

It seems to me that...

 

I experience an emotion I would call, shame, when there is a thought about a self who would be or do something shameful... Something that other selves would judge.

 

Whereas guilt, is also an emotion I would experience, when there is a thought about a self, who does or chooses something wrong.

 

If I'd poop in my pants in public, I would (I assume) experience an emotion shame (not guilt) about the thought "I just pooped in my pants and these people notice it, they must think I am disgusting."

 

Guilt, however, I would experience (I assume) if I would throw that poop at other people, have the thought "I am a doer throwing poop at people and it is a wrong thing to do."

 

🤔

 

If anything... I would say guilt is a thought, and shame is an emotion.

[Loop]

😭🥰😭
 

LoopLoopLoopLoopLoopLoopLoop

 

Let the Lion swallow you whole! 
Allow the Rain Goddess to find all the lost tears!

Up root the weed,

Drink the Water. 
 

🍺

 

Holy Heart,

Bloodline without a start. 
 

2 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

If I'd poop in my pants in public, I would (I assume) experience an emotion shame (not guilt) about the thought "I just pooped in my pants and these people notice it, they must think I am disgusting."

Diarrhea? 

 

It seems like you experience shame as shame is the fundamental repression mechanism, keeping Feeling veiled by thought. 
The guilt is response to feeling the thought “…these people notice it, they must think I am disgusting”. Which is the shame, which is the belief of judgement, Faith/ Love is the Ball, look left look right, do you see any mind here? Feeling Feeling ends darkness & light.

Absolutely Innocent we all are. 🤍

 

Return to the Tree,

Nutrients from the Ground,

Allow the Metals to compound,

But only by the Blood of Heart,

Be Water my friend,

Effortlessly flowing to you,

Creativity distilled to the New,

Trauma embraced,

Old tastes,

Effortless Original Face,

Tie down each Lace,

Heart-Mind isn’t a race. 

 

[Serenity]

I have taken part in 3 Ayahuasca ceremonies, all with the intent to address the sense of shame I had within me.

 

I've been through a lot of purging through the plant's guidance and as of now, it seems like many fear based thoughts and emotions of being not enough and unworthy have been released.

 

It's too early to tell if the change is permanent, or if it will come back out of the woodwork at some point when triggered, but so far it's almost like having a 'new sense of self' to get acclimated to. I wouldn't say the shame has totally disappeared, but I experience little  to no form of violent self-referential thoughts and it seems like it has also made me less prone to think negative stuff about 'others' too. As above so below, as within so without!

 

Also, now other kind of emotions are popping up to the surface.  I think now the fear I feel is more directed at the 'outside world' than before.

 

I would recommend Ayahuasca for clearing up deeply rooted shame. The plant showed me the origin of it and in my case it was a very early wound that kept festering. Dislodging big portion of it was difficult, hence the very welcomed help of the plant.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Serenity

[Phil]

17 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

If I'd poop in my pants in public, I would (I assume) experience an emotion shame (not guilt) about the thought "I just pooped in my pants and these people notice it, they must think I am disgusting."

Are there ‘thinkers’? 

 

17 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

Guilt, however, I would experience (I assume) if I would throw that poop at other people, have the thought "I am a doer throwing poop at people and it is a wrong thing to do."

And ‘doers’?

 

 

Shame is a thought - about a self - that does not exist. 

 

Might be a little ‘dot connecting’…

They can be pretty damn harsh an brutal.

 

Maybe in both cases ‘they’ is really, some thoughts. 

 

And maybe Reiki is without a ‘catch’. 

[Serenity]

6 minutes ago, Phil said:

Shame is a thought - about a self - that does not exist. 

Is it correct to assume shame is a self-concept that triggers diverse emotions, such as fear, disgust, and unworthiness?

 

Because there are definitely emotions generated by shame, even if it is a concept about a non existential self.

 

 

 

[Phil]

41 minutes ago, Serenity said:

Is it correct to assume shame is a self-concept that triggers diverse emotions, such as fear, disgust, and unworthiness?

It’s possible shame has already been assumed to be guidance felt / emotion, therein overlooking the guidance felt / emotion all along, by believing shame is what’s felt… missing shame it what’s thought. 

Similarly, ‘correct’ and or ‘disgust’. ‘Those’ combined with ‘shame’ can spin justification & rationalization and projection. 

And really, if carried out… “fear” and “unworthiness” as well. 

 

41 minutes ago, Serenity said:

Because there are definitely emotions generated by shame, even if it is a concept about a non existential self.

That’s kinda the point. Might say especially because shame is only conceptual. 

Being the body (appearance) vs am only the body (separate / identity). 

‘Ultimately’, which is of course This, awareness doesn’t actually know a body, “concepts”, etc. 

[Mandy]

18 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

I don't follow.

 

It seems to me that...

 

I experience an emotion I would call, shame, when there is a thought about a self who would be or do something shameful... Something that other selves would judge.

 

Whereas guilt, is also an emotion I would experience, when there is a thought about a self, who does or chooses something wrong.

 

If I'd poop in my pants in public, I would (I assume) experience an emotion shame (not guilt) about the thought "I just pooped in my pants and these people notice it, they must think I am disgusting."

 

Guilt, however, I would experience (I assume) if I would throw that poop at other people, have the thought "I am a doer throwing poop at people and it is a wrong thing to do."

 

🤔

 

If anything... I would say guilt is a thought, and shame is an emotion.

The difference is admitted past intention. In guilt you intended and assume that you had a choice, in shame you did not, you assume you were just the victim of circumstance. Both are dualities of the separate self and lead to fear of the world and the weight of assumed personal responsibility as an excuse to mentally berate ourselves and others. Intention only ever is an option now though. People are often afraid of getting old because they lose their "dignity" but maybe most of our dignity is just a bunch of fear and real dignity can't be lost. 

[Serenity]

53 minutes ago, Phil said:

It’s possible shame has already been assumed to be guidance felt / emotion, therein overlooking the guidance felt / emotion all along, by believing shame is what’s felt… missing shame it what’s thought. 

Similarly, ‘correct’ and or ‘disgust’. ‘Those’ combined with ‘shame’ can spin justification & rationalization and projection. 

And really, if carried out… “fear” and “unworthiness” as well. 

 

That’s kinda the point. Might say especially because shame is only conceptual. 

Being the body (appearance) vs am only the body (separate / identity). 

‘Ultimately’, which is of course This, awareness doesn’t actually know a body, “concepts”, etc. 

Will meditate on that. 🙂

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Serenity

[solereproduction]

On 1/15/2023 at 1:00 PM, Blessed2 said:

I don't follow.

 

It seems to me that...

 

I experience an emotion I would call, shame, when there is a thought about a self who would be or do something shameful... Something that other selves would judge.

 

Whereas guilt, is also an emotion I would experience, when there is a thought about a self, who does or chooses something wrong.

 

If I'd poop in my pants in public, I would (I assume) experience an emotion shame (not guilt) about the thought "I just pooped in my pants and these people notice it, they must think I am disgusting."

 

Guilt, however, I would experience (I assume) if I would throw that poop at other people, have the thought "I am a doer throwing poop at people and it is a wrong thing to do."

 

🤔

 

If anything... I would say guilt is a thought, and shame is an emotion.

shame and guilt are imposed by social consensus along with blaming others for your own decisions of playing a role in reality or honestly adapting to the moment your body is never the same results twice all the time you have living as reproductively here proportionately living now.

 

Equal time doesn't keep one equally balanced as proportionately here. civil behavior isn't civic duty to idealism. Honesty doesn't serve patriotism to noble ideas that deflect from understanding evolving as displaced equally here.

 

ity differences change interpretations of living at the same time being separate ancestors here.   Intellectual sides are the total sum of everything existing simultaneosuly separate entities at the same time.  Expanding details vs contracting results.

 

Expanding details move perpendicular to one another as contracting results go getween the 6 degrees of separation returning in 8 corners of open ended changes arriving net as the whole.  Cycles within cycles, perpetual balancing limits perpetual motion naturally.

Going to see if I can bring two 4 dimensional graphs I made up to explain sight.   Left is the philosophy of thinking outside a box with 8 corners and 6 sides.  The right figure collapses the external 8 corners to center balance, this is the inorganic universal 6 degrees of separation relative to one's point of displacement.  inorganically it is the star of this solar system in the 7th center location and from inside out there are 8 separate directions to 8 planets of this solar system that changes every couple of generations by science theories is Pluto a planet or not.

 

the right image organical ancestral progression with great great grandchild arriving center mass after 8 great grandparentsm 4 grandparents, two parenting each addition to the species since inception of that form of life [present native to the atmosphere of its origin.  The right figure is a brain thinking, the left is a mind philosophying life cannot be limited to eternally separed now.

 

The framework of human original sin where ideas anything else is possible replaces actual understanding of living proportionately here. Compounding human err never corrected yet.

 

This is my 5 generation chart  added to the previous one is 4 parallel vertical axses to center mom and dad deliving each great great grandchild to each species in the food chain native to any atmosphere universally present.  16 great great grandparents positioning 8 great grandparents leveled out by 4 grandparents of the two parenting next generation already here one at a time mutually evolving as eternally separated in plain sight.

Edited January 26, 2023 by solereproduction

[Phil]

Shame busting “short cut”:

How many selves am I talking about? At least 2.

How many are in direct experience? None. 

 

An addicted self will never write out & inspect thoughts on the back of a dreamboard. 

It isn’t possible. 

Try as ye might. 

[solereproduction]

17 minutes ago, Phil said:

Shame busting “short cut”:

How many selves am I talking about? At least 2.

How many are in direct experience? None. 

 

An addicted self will never write out & inspect thoughts on the back of a dreamboard. 

It isn’t possible. 

Try as ye might. 

I image 8 billion reproductive soles experience the same requirements as I do adapting to the moment from their own time sharing space in this atmosphere since conceived as I entered being part of the whole.

[Phil]

@solereproduction

Welcome to the forum! 👊🏻 

[solereproduction]

On 1/15/2023 at 11:51 AM, Phil said:

 

 

Shame is a thought.      

Guilt is an emotion. 

 

 

 

Shame is a thought - about a self - that does not exist. 

Guilt is an emotion - felt by - the self which is existence. 

 

 

 

Shame is only the thought; ‘shame’. 

Guilt is not only the thought, ‘guilt’. 

 

 

 

Shame is not an emotion. 

Guilt is an emotion. 

 

 

 

Expression of shame is expression of a concept, about a non-existent self. 

Expression of guilt is expression of an emotion, which is felt. 

 

 

 

 

 

Shame is a thought loop;

A thought about a non-existent self…

and…

Shame, shaming, shamed, ashamed or shameful.

 

 

 

 

Emotional expression is the dispelling of self referential beliefs. 

Of thought loops.

Of self deception.

Of suffering. 

Of discord.

 

Self is infinite love. 

Infinite can not know finite. 

Shame is cast upon an individual by social consensus and it is emotional response to that projection put upon the individual receiving it.

 

Guilt is instinctive response to not being honest about oneself living as equally occupying space now.  Self inflicted for being part of shaming others into submission to power of suggesting life isn't self evidently evolving here now.

 

A brain's origin is nucleus of their fertilized cell, a mind is nurtured after birth to follow their 4 previous generation gaps to adapting in space timed apart now.

 

It is a universal constant. No exceptions.

Edited March 27, 2023 by solereproduction

[Joseph Maynor]

Shame is a curious thing.  I’ve definitely worked on it and have less now than ever.  Shame comes from comparing yourself to others and feeling inferior.  It comes from a comparative mentality combined with thinking that you’re not enough or adequate.  I think the way to snuff out unreasonable shame is to find a sense of perfection in yourself — and then that’s kind of an Avenue to learning how to love yourself as you are.  I did this despite any error I have in explaining why it happened.  And it did have a lot to do with doing spiritual enlightenment work but it started before that with me.  I worked on my shame problem starting about 10 years ago.  Teaching others how to lose their unreasonable shame might be my #1 motive for sharing my ideas with others because I did that and I know how horribly shame can impact a person’s life.

 

Guilt, when it is reasonable, reflects a kind of sorrow for something you’ve done or not done to or for someone else.  It is an emotion.  It’s a kind of regret.  And I think it has to do with empathy.  There are people who are kind of like guilt mongers who want to make you feel guilt for how you treat them but they lack empathy and don’t feel guilt.  But I think the version of guilt that means something is when you feel guilty for how you interfaced with another person.  

[Blessed2]

I still very much think this thread ain't it.

 

I do feel "shame" at times, like I feel "guilt".

 

Yes, sometimes the concept shame means the social thing when someone is being shamed for example, or someone is believed to be shameful.

 

But the thought, "I am shameful" or "I did something that others think is weird or shameful", creates a very specific sort of feeling. A feeling I would call "shame". This feeling is distinct from guilt, insecurity or unworthiness. It IS what a thought or belief about there being shame, FEELS LIKE. A very specific, very recognizable, distinct emotion.

 

I am talking about an ACTUAL EMOTION which I call "shame".

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Blessed2

[solereproduction]

44 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

I still very much think this thread ain't it.

 

I do feel "shame" at times, like I feel "guilt".

 

Yes, sometimes the concept shame means the social thing when someone is being shamed for example, or someone is believed to be shameful.

 

But the thought, "I am shameful" or "I did something that others think is weird or shameful", creates a very specific sort of feeling. A feeling I would call "shame". This feeling is distinct from guilt, insecurity or unworthiness. It IS what a thought or belief about there being shame, FEELS LIKE. A very specific, very recognizable, distinct emotion.

 

I am talking about an ACTUAL EMOTION which I call "shame".

 

Emotions defined debating situational ethics and results within a populaiton living in series parallel time occupying space here, plays vwernacular tribalism behind mind over matter philosophy and symbolism over substance psychology.

 

Emotions respond, Intellect generations action.  shame vs guilt, fight vs flight, love vs hate, acceptance vs rejection. all relative to subjective interpretation for objective control of outcomes forward from here.

 

6 degrees of separating each as a whole to everyone pretending the whole is not separated adapting to the moment here.  7th parallel. mutually evolving as ancestrally displaced centered in past, current, what continues forward as part of the whole currently taking place.

 

I am a whole reproduction part of a whole ancestral lineage, within a whole species native to this atmosphere, limited to this solar system, galaxy, universe never duplicating the same total sum again.  Kinetic evolving isn't a static evolution theory. It is a universal constant whether the topic is inorganic molecular combinations of a chemical periodic table or DNA of life per individual displacement present. Past, current, added or not forward from here.

 

Time to correct compouding human error practiced intentionally within the species itself.  Self deception doesn't deliever human rights, just history of mayhem, madness, misery making people believe nobody knew now is where genetics eternally separates biological results adapting to the moment here.

 

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by solereproduction
add context to clarify life's specificity to evolving forward now.

[Mandy]

3 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

I still very much think this thread ain't it.

 

I do feel "shame" at times, like I feel "guilt".

 

Yes, sometimes the concept shame means the social thing when someone is being shamed for example, or someone is believed to be shameful.

 

But the thought, "I am shameful" or "I did something that others think is weird or shameful", creates a very specific sort of feeling. A feeling I would call "shame". This feeling is distinct from guilt, insecurity or unworthiness. It IS what a thought or belief about there being shame, FEELS LIKE. A very specific, very recognizable, distinct emotion.

 

I am talking about an ACTUAL EMOTION which I call "shame".

 

The shame is believing it's really about you though, and not guidance that that's not how Source see it, that it isn't about you at all. It's the same emotion as 21, unworthiness. THAT indeed is an emotion. The whole idea of shame condones the belief that the reason you feel bad is because you are bad. It's believing the thought. 

[Phil]

6 hours ago, Mandy said:

The whole idea of shame condones the belief that the reason you feel bad is because you are bad. It's believing the thought. 

That’s super clarifying. 

 

It also seems like shame isn’t possible without identifying. 

Same thing really I guess. 

[MetaSage]

But what are they? How do they come about? This doesn't seem to answer what these are and how and why they occur.

 

What are their components? How do you create them out of nothing? What is the experience called guilt? What is the one called shame?

 

These must be contemplated by each of us individually. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by MetaSage