Forza21
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Posts posted by Forza21
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On 12/18/2023 at 4:20 PM, Phil said:
As my experience arises an individual subject seeks wholeness in meaning, purpose, value & worth while the present remains an unsuspected gift.
present is either with or without this person, i talk about romantic love. What is this bond between two people, what makes it special?
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Every time In a relationship, when i say:” I love you”, deep down I don't really know what it means.
And even worse, it feels slightly inauthentic because, in my experience, there is no such thing as love towards that one person, that specific person.Yes, there is emotional, psychological, sexual attraction, and desire. Yes, there are pleasant sensations. Yes, there are emotions and thoughts/ images about that person and how great it is that I'm with her. About things we share etc.
But what is love towards that one person? Is it just a social construct? Is it a story we tell ourselves? Is it just an attachment? What do you really mean when you say, "I love you" without the concepts?
And please drop the spiritual jargon about love being the realization of oneness, that lofty thing. Where do you find it in your direct experience? Why you say „i love you” only to your partner and not a homeless person on your street?
Please put it simply.
What is love to you? What do you mean when you say love? What do you mean when you say, "I love you"?
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I wrote the exact topic about that.
My thoughts after some time: What is divine? If you become something fully, is there something actually different/other/divine than you? How would you know the difference then? -
7 minutes ago, James123 said:
Just completely let go everything, every thought, idea, belief etc. Whatever left is what the Truth is that's all.
it's true. Sometimes it's super obvious it's just "this". But i don't understand why so many people talk about awarness on the top of it, it's like adding something. -
people often talk about awareness but honestly i highly resonate what's being said it this video ^.
@Phil is that another "map is not the territory" thing?
In direct experience there's no such thing as awareness apart from sound,sensations, perception, thought, smell, taste, right?
So even to say "awarness is aware of thoughts" it's like adding something on top of experience.
Bahiya sutra:
"In the seen, there is only the seen,
in the heard, there is only the heard,
in the sensed, there is only the sensed,
in the cognized, there is only the cognized.
Thus you should see that
indeed there is no thing here;
this, Bahiya, is how you should train yourself.
Since, Bahiya, there is for you
in the seen, only the seen,
in the heard, only the heard,
in the sensed, only the sensed,
in the cognized, only the cognized,
and you see that there is no thing here,
you will therefore see that
indeed there is no thing there.
As you see that there is no thing there,
you will see that
you are therefore located neither in the world of this,
nor in the world of that,
nor in any place
between the two.
This alone is the end of suffering." -
2 hours ago, Orb said:
No one saw it or is hearing it in all honesty, it's just difficult to communicate it without using self referential language, otherwise it would sound like gibberish lol. In fact as the ego speaks to "me" it is very clear I am not the thoughts.
Getting rid of the ego is an ego trick, which is why I didn't suggest that in op.
And no, on the path as the sensory/vibratory "world" clarifies (the 5 senses so to speak) so too does thought which includes ego.
The ego is a powerful thought mechanism designed to put all your attention on it. That's the number 1 "goal" of the ego or separate self thoughts.
You ever notice a moment where you're meditating and presence is flooding in, but then a sneaky thought comes up, takes your attention, and then the allowing of presence is postponed? That's ego.
Yes, seems legit. Just wanted to make sure you are not falling into trap of destroying ego. Its ego that wants to destroy ego and its biggest ego trip ever. 😂
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Solipsism was my biggest terror, it took me 1 year to get rid of fear around it. @Phil and this forum was a great aid , and daily meditation did a trick.☺️
and its just as you say, as you start to touch unreality of „you” this fear around being all alone is gone for the most part.
solipsism is 100% thoughts idea, belief, although very sticky one, because it glues to emotion of fear easly. And emotions keep thoughts alive longer.right now for its like „oh solipsistic thought…” and puff its gone 🙂
great post.
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Hello!
if it comes to dream board, is it important to acknowledge if desires come from *soul/truth/god/love/divine-expression*, whatever you want to call it, or from the sense of separated self?(therefore from the sense of lack?) my "gut" tells me it is.
For example, if before putting something on dream-board i ask myself this question:
Is there a feeling that if I get this I'll be happier and more complete than I am right now?
if the answer is "yes" it comes from a sense of lack.
it's not that it's bad or anything, but it's ego driven desire, and i know for sure, it won't bring me long-lasting satisfaction, because it comes from a illusion, that i am not whole or complete at this very moment.
The problem is, i don't see any desires that bring me a real sense of joy, and satisfaction, and are beneficial to others. I don't see my soul-purpose just yet.
I know that helping people, love itd. is the way, but i know it intellectually, i am not fully feeling it yet.
So should i go with fulfilling ego desires?
or shall i discover my real soul-purpose? and how?
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For those who don't believe in emotional guidance and intuition...
Just try for one day, putting aside your doubt-mass-of-a-mind, and listen to what your emotions say. @Phil is really, really right about it.
Today, i've done it.
i've talked to people how i really feel. No hiding, straight forward expression.i've done things i felt like doing.
i've disagreed with people when i felt like doing so, instead of "usual" people-pleasing.
Result?
It is amazing.
Some people got angry at me. They shouted. They didn't expect that.
BUT i felt like i had literally infinite capacity to handle that.
I felt like a manifestation of unending peace in the midst of a storm.
It felt JUST RIGHT. It felt like i was really connected and aligned.
I just knew it is the right thing to do.
Even if whole world was against me, it wouldn't make a difference, i just FELT like I AM IN PERFECT PLACE.
And... they stopped. They started to listen. They started to open their-minds for a diffrent few. In the end, they even thanked me and hugged me.
Unconditional infinite love is guiding this dance-of-a-life all the time. We just have to listen.
Please try it!
Thank you Phil ❤️ you are the most loving guy i have ever met. ❤️ -
7 hours ago, Phil said:
Maybe but maybe not. Putting myself in her shoes based on what you’re saying… she’s with someone who doesn’t want the same kind of relationship, and isn’t as compassionate or loving as she is. In a way you’d be setting her free to attract more of a match. She might experience some heartbreak, but then the clarity for having experienced always comes, and she’ll be clearer on what she wants which attracts that. You’ll be free as well, traveling and experiencing what you want to. It might sound crude in a way, but putting each other before happiness just doesn’t work.
You are so right.
and honestly, i finally start to cut through doubt-mass of my mind, and experience my intuition. Feelings are there all the time, guidance is felt… it is so perfect and simple, i cant Thank you enough for your work. ❤️❤️❤️🙏
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15 hours ago, Phil said:
When we met, as best I can describe with words, something magical happened. The whole of reality changed. We were instantly one as if it’d always been the case. As if we’ve been losing and finding each other in Love for eternity. It’s been ‘us against the world’ ever since. Us, and everything else. Not sure how that ‘comes off’, but that’s what it’s like. If I felt monogamy was against my nature, I’d recognize that as preference & my nature as unconditional, and I likely wouldn’t be in a (mismatched) relationship. But that’s the nature of freedom & preference. Overall, communication is key, finding out if preferences are aligned, a match.
In acknowledging the illusion of choice, much insight can fill in as to why different preferences arise. Sometimes preferences which arise aren’t actually (more deeply) what’s wanted. Sometimes preferences are based on falsity, such as fear of loss, insecurity, etc. Communion… in communication, is key.
Can’t and need are tricky words. Identity even more so. (‘She can’t but I can’). I’d frame it up as preferences / wants. It sounds like she wants that job (preference) more than she wants a job which coincides with or enables traveling.
‘She’s gonna feel like… I am leaving her and having fun’, also tricky words. Not trying to be the word police or anything… but what’s your best guess of what she’s actually feeling or would feel - which emotion?
❤️ I am so happy that it worked for you.
if it comes what she's gonna feel - i don't want hurt her, or make her sad, and she might feel sadness, loneliness, abandonment, grief... i feel just bad for her, because she's far more compassionate or loving than i am, and she deserves better, than being left alone like that. It's like my desires are bad, because it's gonna make her feel bad. -
1 minute ago, Phil said:
Thanks.
Is she ok with the traveling, and the ‘issue’ is really that she wants monogamy and you don’t?
Choice is illusory btw. Not sure it helps to ‘tuck’ anything away there. If monogamy is wanted, that might confuse things.
it feels like monogamy is against my nature. How you deal with that in your relationship?
she s not ok with my traveling solo either. Its because she cant right now (she needs to stay in one place because of job) and i can. And shes gonna feel like i am leaving her and having fun.
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9 minutes ago, Phil said:
Am I hearing you right, that you’re afraid to be honest?
Fear is best addressed by looking in the closet.
You’re not doing her any favors anymore than you are yourself by not being honest.
It seems you know what’s terrible without having looked yet.
It seem you know you are separate and could be without love, and therein choose love.
It seems you know there is such a thing, aspect or perspective as “should”.
It also seems you know she can’t do it right now.
And it seems you know you have a purpose, and therein aren’t Free.
I am 100% honest with myself and her, i told her exactly that. And its been one year since i still have this in my mind. She is not okey with my desires, so i am not doing it. But i didnt choose it either. Hence The conflict. Trust me, authenthicity is The main goal for me…
i dont know, it feels like monogamy is against my nature. How you deal with that in your relationship?
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26 minutes ago, Phil said:
It’s hard to say based on that info. Could you share what it is that you want? Sounds like essentially to part ways but I don’t want to assume I know (and therein suffer).
i want to travel solo for a looong time, meet new people (i also have desire to have sex … is it bad?) etc, and she cant do it right now. And its terrible to be left like that but my desire is very strong.
if i were to choose love - i should stay.
if i were to choose my desires and purpose/aligment /m- i should go. But is it ego?
And i dont know.
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@Phil i join this topic, because it is related.
what if what i want, and i feel it, is going to make her suffer ? I am on this crossroad, that i cant ignore my desires any more, and she s going to be hurt by that.
i want to travel solo for a looong time, meet new people etc, and she cant do it right now. And its terrible to be left like that but my desire is very strong.
if i were to choose love - i should stay.
if i were to choose my desires and purpose/aligment /m- i should go.
And i dont know.
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@Orb
Here it's described, by zen master KUBOTA the anatman realisation at the ninth stage of the oxherding pictures :
https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2018/05/the-ten-ox-herding-pictures.html?fbclid=IwAR1a5jRlOQYxKPotnu8utjpOWLvBC1LZu5fa2kspYp-VtF132YbUETNw8Fc
@Phil https://www.actualityofbeing.com/the-ten-ox-herding-pictures also described it
It seems like they are talking about the same thing, but i don't really know 🙂
i have no idea also, why i care about this stuff conceptualy, instead of trying to grasp it in direct experience. I g uess that's how my mind works 😅
I guess "Truth" maybe also discovered from diffrent perspectives? -
It seems like reality is a magician that can appear as whatever it likes with no limits whatsoever, right?
so how do we even know that it's really infinite being/unconditional love? Could it be another framework/believe ?
there are like BILLION theories what reality is all about, all kind of ISM (materialism, idealism, solipsism/Catholicism...till infinity)
there are like BILLION theories what happens after death
ALSO people which say that reality is INFINITE CONSCIOUSNESS and people which are into spirituality as well, who says it's yet another stage/beliefs.
and all those people, believing whatever, ARE ABSOLUTELY SURE that their framework is correct.
And we, by nature, are picky - we tend to believe what we like, and dismiss what we don't like.
Is there any way to actually know anything? -
29 minutes ago, Phil said:
Could you check and see if there is something beyond consciousness, and then return and share without any mention of anything consciousness was conscious of? If not, there is nothing beyond consciousness.
Perhaps you’re asking more about the true nature of consciousness?
Maybe the true identity as it were / nonduality / or maybe nothing?
How it is that the map is not the territory?
I guess as conciousness, its meant, the ability to self-reflect. No matter if it reflects „i am this person Here” or „i am everything/divine/God” and at one point, it might be totally gone.
some people Call it The end of Unity Conciosuness phase.
Here s better explanation:
super interested to hear whats your experience on that -
3 hours ago, Phil said:
The first word (there’s) is incorrect. Even before getting to beyond. That might initially seem trivial or even as if a negation, but that would be very far from the truth in terms of self and experience.
sure, words aren’t perfect.
but still, is there truth to it? Like for example Echkart Tolle never mentions about full anatta\no self.
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1 hour ago, Phil said:
How so?
I dont know, now its kinda funny. Actually
it helped me realize…
that i cant be happy, fulfiled, or even free. I cant.
freedom is not wanting freedom.
happiness is not wanting happiness.
It just is.
once i realized that, all suffering and wanting to feel diffrent, or anything to change is gone.
Its deeply rooted delusion that „i” need to have success or happiness.Freedom is without such conditions.
Right now its freedom, just is.
Still kinda curious want do you think about whats has been written Here🙏
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1 hour ago, James123 said:
İ am sorry but you are wrong, if something beyond or highest, how can you experience, then forget even experience how can you explain? Mind has no such capacity to realize what's the highest or beyond. Mind must be dropped. And realization happens that it is there as always, never move nor began.
I really dont care about being right, all i care is truth.
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Hello.
There are more and more people (yet it's still rare) who actually talk about "universal consciousness/God/Oneness" not being the final realization on the path. Or i should say, final purification, as what is, just is, natural state. But it seems like our delusion runs very, very, very deep.
Adyashanti, Simply always awake, Frank yang, talks about this on youtube.
They all talk about how unity consciousness is bliss, divine, oness etc. And it's like 99% of spiritual teachers talk about that (Rupert Spira, Echart Tolle etc) BUT it is not the final stage. "Ego-Self (even very thin")" wants unity conciousness, but it doesn't want further purification, because there's no center at all, including the divine. Not ground to stand on. Nothing.
Adyshanati (in his book: resurrecting jesus) even refers it back to Jesus, as he's words on the cross "Oh God, why have you forsaken me?" related exactly to that stage of realization. Falling away of "Divine". True no-self.
There is Christian Mystic Bernadette Roberts, she went into the "no self" after "Unity Phase". Her book "The experience of no self" is shocking to say at least. It was terrifying for her, losing "God" or "Divine center". Here's her map::
It's main core in Buddhism actually, it's clearly described here:
https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2007/03/thusnesss-six-stages-of-experience.html
While most Advaita Vedenta followers focus on "I am: everything/God/ etc". But even there are exceptions like:
If you regress properly, even the " i am" sense will disappear" - Nisargadatta Maharaj.
He also said that "universal concisouness" is not the final "stage".I don't know it all sounds kinda depresing. I would love to hear @Phil talk about this and his experience? I think it's really, really rare, and i don't see anyone else go that deep here. Or maybe i'm wrong?
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4 minutes ago, Phil said:
Decision making is impossible. It’s conditioning. It’s a belief equal to unicorn making. That isn’t happening either. 🙂
It’s rightfully associated with & indicative of the matrix. It is ‘the wool which has been pulled over your eyes’.
The way is to see what the matrix is. To inspect, not to escape.
“Do not try and bend the spoon - that’s impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth”.
Seeing the matrix is depicted in the movie rather perfectly, as it is seeing the code behind the appearance instead of the appearance.
This is what I see:
On the dreamboard, “travel”.
Thought attracts thought in kind. So another thought will indeed arise. Perhaps, “Spain”.
On the dreamboard, “Spain”.
Another thought naturally arises… perhaps, “July, for the running of the bulls”.
On the calendar, in July, “Spain”.
When is it while you’re experiencing the running of the bulls? Now.
Where is it? Here.
Nowhere.
🤍
hahahahahahahaha, i sincerely started to laugh as crazy.
Holly fuck, it's so stupid simple and thoughts make it so complicated xD
"This is what i see" got me...
Thaaaaank you ❤️ ❤️
„I love you” - what does it mean ?
in Friendship, Dating, Relationships, Family, Parenting & Sexuality
Posted · Edited by Forza21
so there's nothing more to that, than our own story that this particular person is more imporant/special than others? and we can decide oterwise anytime? Could you please elaborate?