How to stop arguing and actually listen to other people?

[Someone here]

How to stop arguing with people and listen fully to what they are saying without attempting to prove them wrong and prove myself right ?

Lately I had long conversations with @Phil in my journal and I noticed this pattern. I'm not actually listening to what He Is suggesting or saying. And sometimes it's even worse..I know that he is right but I keep arguing nevertheless to not

" lose"  the debate. 

I'm a  guy with many very unpopular opinions.

 And in real life What happens is that when I go out of my way to share them, people always argue against them.

In many cases I pretty much instantly know when the other side has no desire to listen and respect me.
I am very often on the receiving end of strawman arguments, cherrypicking and misinterpertations.

People don't care to listen to me, regardless of how right I might be I can never force them to.

Internet arguments are also a bandwagon.
If I say A and someone misinterperts it (often maliciously, because they don't care to listen) as B, then the rest of the bandwagon is going to treat me as though I said B no matter how much I clarify it.

Other people will eventually join in, choosing specifics statements of a general argument to poke a hole in without any context because, well, they have no respect or care for what I am saying, and I can't force them to.

When I was younger and more naive I called people out on it.
I wrote entire paragraph s pointing inconsistencies and outright lies.
The thing is, the moment I did so, people (again) instantly  forced a narrative of me classifying others as trolls or what have you because I have nothing to say or something like that.

And the bandwagon always comes along to reinforce such a narrative since I'm obviously in the wrong for having a certain opinion and therefore I'm wrong about everything, including any complaints on how I'm treated.

The thing is I know that that's how this story goes, that there is no way for me to win no matter what I say or do, but I always end up being dragged into these situations when people misinterpert me and I feel that I simply must correct them (even when I factually know that they came in bad faith and simply do not care) due to a sense of both pride and outrage.

This has proven to be absolutely useless to me, and I want to stop and be able to feel at peace and not get so easily provoked when people spread lies about me, what I say and what I believe.

How do I do that?

[Phil]

What is the ‘why’, the point, the real reason you want this to change? 

[Someone here]

50 minutes ago, Phil said:

What is the ‘why’, the point, the real reason you want this to change? 

Because I want to learn from you . You have so much clarity in what you teach .I'm not necessarily agreeing with everything you teach. But something within me resonates with your speech like "this guy is fucking woke 😅".

So it is very important to me

. I want to  reach a state where i start perceiving reality through the viewpoints of others in order to escape my inherently egocentric, self-serving, self-justifying and subjective cocoons.

Only through others can we escape from our “selves” and thus attain a selfless, objective viewpoint, perception of reality.

 

So mainly for two reasons:

1-i  will learn valuable insight and information. And primarily I want you to guide me to awaken to unconditional Love.

2-and this  Knowledge empowers me to make better decisions.

 And btw I am never resentful to people giving advice. But yes its a fact I don't blindly abide by anybody's suggestions ,only if it is veritable and well anticipated I admire it otherwise its like hearing and throwing it off my brains.

But yes I actually don't disrespect others view. I Try to understand them but not hard enough and end up misinterpreting what they are saying .

[Mandy]

@Someone here Is the arguing satisfying? Or is it a way of seeking satisfaction in seeking attention from someone else? Do you seek to be right or do you seek attention or both? What would be a preferable alternative that doesn't involve manipulation? If it could be any way you want it to be, BECAUSE it is any way you want it, how would it be? 

 

Would you want to be the only smart person on earth? Would you want love and wisdom only to be accessible by a handful of gurus? If it could be any way you want it to be, BECAUSE it is any way you want it, how would it be? 

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Mandy said:

Is the arguing satisfying? Or is it a way of seeking satisfaction in seeking attention from someone else? Do you seek to be right or do you seek attention or both? What would be a preferable alternative that doesn't involve manipulation? If it could be any way you want it to be, BECAUSE it is any way you want it, how would it be?

I don't know , but the fact that I'm even self-aware enough to ask this question means that I'm leagues ahead of most. Don't you think so? 

Its satisfied me In looking smart to other people as you mentioned.  But It stops people from caring about what is really correct, and makes them care more about how they appear to others.

It makes people passionately defend their opinions even after they realize they are wrong. In many cases it makes them truly BELIEVE that their opinion is correct to the point that they refuse to accept any evidence or facts to the contrary.

I usually seek attention. I want to be recognised by people as a good person and a knowledgeable person.

The alternative would be to cut back on the arguing and allow more space for listening and allowing what the other person is saying to sink in.

1 hour ago, Mandy said:

Would you want to be the only smart person on earth? Would you want love and wisdom only to be accessible by a handful of gurus? If it could be any way you want it to be, BECAUSE it is any way you want it, how would it be

Well..of course I want to be the smartest ,most attractive, most Badass person in the whole world .not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing. 

Somtimes i really have a point on my side and want to prove myself then its not a bad thing to argue. It's my right to show that i were not wrong. But if i argue each and every time for silly things just to show that I'm are strong and bold, Its really a bad thing.
I do want people listening to me more than me listening to them . But that's the whole issue . Because I know I'm not above everyone.  For example I'm definitely not more awake and conscious as Phil...yet I keep arguing with him endlessly without any end in sight . I just want to reciceve his message and shut up for a while to let it sink in without much arguing.  But I can't do it. 

[Phil]

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

Because I want to learn from you . You have so much clarity in what you teach .I'm not necessarily agreeing with everything you teach. But something within me resonates with your speech like "this guy is fucking woke 😅".

So it is very important to me

. I want to  reach a state where i start perceiving reality through the viewpoints of others in order to escape my inherently egocentric, self-serving, self-justifying and subjective cocoons.

 

The kindness is as always appreciated… but to clarify, that there aren’t separate selves isn’t a philosophy or an idea. It’s a recognition that occurs from ample self-inspection. There’s definitely clarity, but there’s no one who has it, no one teaching anything, nothing to teach. You’re already more ‘connected’, whole and complete than any words could ever convey. There is only to unfetter, or, un-obscure the true nature. 

 

Reaching a state is manipulative misinformation. It perpetuates seeking & the ‘separate self’. It’s done for money. You & a state, or consciousness states, or states of consciousness, etc, is plural & dualistic, and is not nonduality, and is not infinity. It is separate self aggrandizing, purporting to be a teacher of nonduality.. When this is recognized, if there is anger & rage, express it responsibly to empty of it & process it.  Clarity, peace, love, compassion, intelligence & maturity are precisely the opposite ‘direction’. Self-inspection, exploration & inspection of what is / what is present / the here & now / what is actual. There is a good chance you believe I’m harping on this from a personal stand point. I am not saying anything different than I have all along. I’m being as clear about this as possible, because you are wanting to hear. 

 

If, so to speak, you’re serious about self-recognition, acknowledge solely on how it feels, without any need for thinking, that ‘my inherently egocentric, self-serving, self-justifying and subjective cocoons’ isn’t indicative of your true nature. It’s conditioning-conjecture. The more time that passes in which such misleading content is not consumed, the more clarity and better feeling arises. 

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

Only through others can we escape from our “selves” and thus attain a selfless, objective viewpoint, perception of reality.

Please don’t take this personally, but that misinformation - not you - is complete utter nonsense. There is nothing to attain. You’re being sold Thetan levels, states & degree’s and have been in denial of this. If what’s being said feels triggering, that is the evidence. Allow it up & out if so. (Imo) don’t argue for it, defend it, etc. 

 

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

 

So mainly for two reasons:

1-i  will learn valuable insight and information. And primarily I want you to guide me to awaken to unconditional Love.

Value is a belief. Insight has no source and is all around you now & always, and comes from everyone. There is nothing special or unique about Phil, sans complete self-inspection, and thus the absolute recognition there never was a “Phil”. There is just pure utter freedom and spontaneous appearance, and of course not even. There is no one who can guide you to yourself. You are never a distance or time away from yourself. Self-inspection is the way less way. Meditation slows reaction and sheds light, clarifying. Emotional expression clarifies while simultaneously un-suppresses conditioning. A dreamboard helps the recognition you are the creator, and are right now, and only ever right “now” creating reality. 

 

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

2-and this  Knowledge empowers me to make better decisions.

Albeit apparent, I don’t disagree with that. Also, just two cents, I just write my dream on my board as I go, and google knowledge as needed. It’s incredibly simple, especially compared to any thinking knowledge will could or should come from one or two or some small number of people.  We have the internet now for God’s sake. Compared to ‘trusting someone’ / trying to decipher who’s trustworthy, or believing any one actually knows any thing - it’s pure liberation. 

 

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

And btw I am never resentful to people giving advice. But yes its a fact I don't blindly abide by anybody's suggestions ,only if it is veritable and well anticipated I admire it otherwise its like hearing and throwing it off my brains.

This is gonna sound harsh but I’m just sayin like it is as best I can, that is mental gymnastics. Veritable doesn’t apply to any knowledge or anything any one says as far as self-recognition goes. It’s is manipulating to act in such a way as to convince any one of this. Emptying the cup is recognizing this has occurred. Again, one can not be too careful with what one consumes. ‘Listen’ to feeling. So to speak, it is within you, always. What feels off - is off. Allow it to be that simple, easy & effortless. 

 

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

But yes I actually don't disrespect others view. I Try to understand them but not hard enough and end up misinterpreting what they are saying .

Trying to understand and understand ‘harder’ or ‘harder enough’ all comes from manipulative conjecture & purporting. It ‘gets in there’ much deeper than is yet recognized. There isn’t any one who actually understands any thing. There is only to empty, to uncover. 

 

Sorry if I’m ‘breaking your heart’ or anything here so to speak, but if ya want the omelette…

 

For now I’d just use a pen & paper, and contemplate this…

What is the ‘why’, the point, the real reason you want this to change? 

Write whatever thought arises… and then bring attention back to the question… and write whatever thought arises. You’ll naturally experience deeper and deeper insights as to what it is you actually, really, truly want, and will then understand the first of the four noble truths. If any ‘stuff’ or experiences that are desired pop up along the way, write them on your dreamboard. Allow the mind to remain clear by doing so. 

 

Also, and damn this is harsh, but if ya want the omelette… give your op a read. Stop on every thing you say others are doing, and openly, most humbly, really consider - you’re actually doing that. 

 

Then self-inspect. Where is this alleged doer? 

Hands are moving, fingers are typing, words are spoken, food is eaten, etc - any directions, any mechanism going on - or is experience just… happening?

[Blessed2]

6 hours ago, Someone here said:

I know that he is right but I keep arguing nevertheless to not

" lose"  the debate. 

I'm a  guy with many very unpopular opinions.

 And in real life What happens is that when I go out of my way to share them, people always argue against them.

In many cases I pretty much instantly know when the other side has no desire to listen and respect me.
I am very often on the receiving end of strawman arguments, cherrypicking and misinterpertations.

People don't care to listen to me, regardless of how right I might be I can never force them to.

 

This sounds to me a bit like that "ultra rational scientific method debator" - attachment. Really popular these days, especially on the internet. Placing great deal of importance and value on arguments, rationality, winning debates etc. Not sure your experience is like that, but it's something I've noticed a lot of people do. 

 

Debate and arguments are really just an empty promise though. Everyone could argue and debate about anything for the rest of eternity without 'getting anywhere'. Knowledge, thinking and debating is an illusion. You probably already know this, but there might be some sort of emotion or tension keeping the attachment running. Maybe somewhere is stomach area? That's where I feel it.

 

6 hours ago, Someone here said:

I am very often on the receiving end of strawman arguments, cherrypicking and misinterpertations.

 

It might sometimes seem that way, but it might also be that some people are just not interested in debate, arguments, or even thinking. You just might be on a 'different wave-lenght'.

 

There is a lot of wisdom and clarity in silence, simplicity, humility and lightheartedness. It's something thinking, logic or arguments just can't grasp onto.

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

There’s definitely clarity, but there’s no one who has it, no one teaching anything, nothing to teach. You’re already more ‘connected’, whole and complete than any words could ever convey. There is only to unfetter, or, un-obscure the true nature. 

Very good . I like this message . It resonates with me .

We’re not creating anything new or achieving something which we didn’t have before. All that is required is to give up the unreal.

Simple awareness is our natural state. If we can attain it or be it, it is all right. But my only question is it true that  one cannot reach it without effort?

Because all  the inclinations carry the mind outward and turn it to external objects. All such thoughts have to be given up? Right? . For that, effort is necessary. Of course everybody says ‘Be quiet or still’. But it is not easy. This is why effort is necessary.

Having once experienced the bliss of peace, no one would like to be out of it or engage himself otherwise. But is it really already done?  That sounds too good to be true 😇

1 hour ago, Phil said:

Clarity, peace, love, compassion, intelligence & maturity are precisely the opposite ‘direction’. Self-inspection, exploration & inspection of what is / what is present / the here & now / what is actual. There is a good chance you believe I’m harping on this from a personal stand point. I am not saying anything different than I have all along. I’m being as clear about this as possible, because you are wanting to hear. 

Very well said 👏. 

Reminds me of Ramana Maharshi when he said our  real nature is peace.Mental activity obscures it.

We wander in the desert of mental activity, looking for our ticket home in further mental activity.

The answer is to turn back toward inherent peace instead of wandering in the wrong direction.

The “self” that believes it can solve its own problems is merely the representative of mental activity.

It’s like a thief dressing up as a policeman and pretending to catch himself.😂

1 hour ago, Phil said:

The more time that passes in which such misleading content is not consumed, the more clarity and better feeling arises. 

Ok I'm not gonna beat around the Bush here ..Are you suggesting that I should stop  listening to Leo gura ?

1 hour ago, Phil said:

There is no one who can guide you to yourself. You are never a distance or time away from yourself. Self-inspection is the way less way. Meditation slows reaction and sheds light, clarifying. Emotional expression clarifies while simultaneously un-suppresses conditioning. A dreamboard helps the recognition you are the creator, and are right now, and only ever right “now” creating reality. 

Very beautiful and well said .😇

Im getting closer to unconditional love. I bought this cat a month ago. And li just love it no matter how messy it makes my home

 Can't even imagine what would happen if I had Chiltern

.they will give me unconditional love.

If you are looking to give unconditional love, Even if your child is a murderer you will love him/her. You may not like them but you will always love them.

I’m fairly certain this is not the answer you were looking for though lol

1 hour ago, Phil said:

Listen’ to feeling. So to speak, it is within you, always. What feels off - is off. Allow it to be that simple, easy & effortless. 

True .I'm applying this principle into life and I'm already feeling better about myself.  Thank you for sharing your wisdom for free to everyone 🙏 

1 hour ago, Phil said:

For now I’d just use a pen & paper, and contemplate this…

What is the ‘why’, the point, the real reason you want this to change? 

Write whatever thought arises… and then bring attention back to the question… and write whatever thought arises. You’ll naturally experience deeper and deeper insights as to what it is you actually, really, truly want, and will then understand the first of the four noble truths. If any ‘stuff’ or experiences that are desired pop up along the way, write them on your dreamboard. Allow the mind to remain clear by doing so .

Will do.

1 hour ago, Phil said:

Also, and damn this is harsh, but if ya want the omelette… give your op a read. Stop on every thing you say others are doing, and openly, most humbly, really consider - you’re actually doing that. 

Yeah sorry if I'm constantly complaining. I hope you are not annoyed by my moans. I really like to project my own bullshit onto others . It only makes things worse .

1 hour ago, Phil said:

Then self-inspect. Where is this alleged doer? 

Hands are moving, fingers are typing, words are spoken, food is eaten, etc - any directions, any mechanism going on - or is experience just… happening?

Its totally miraculous.  Completely unexplainable. Reality is pure magic .

Recently I've been wondering  ..What is happening right now, like what is this exact fucking moment? it is LITERALLY there. RIGHT NOW! THIS!?

Talking to someone about this topic makes me feel either like:

1-  i am totally insane, which by now i know i am not. why? because the fact is that this MOMENT is happening RIGHT FUCKING NOW, and for some reason people don't get it..

2- the other person/persons are totally insane. why? because they are not noticing the FUCKING SIGNIFICANCE of FACT that this MOMENT is happening RIGHT FUCKING NOW, and THEY are IN IT TOO.

I  question for a lot. i mean, ALOT.

What is...... THIS? by THIS i mean Literally EVERYTHING.

How can i answer this question myself? it feels impossible. Why?

Because THIS is literally IMPOSSIBLE, How can this moment EXIST?🤣😅

[Someone here]

31 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

Debate and arguments are really just an empty promise though. Everyone could argue and debate about anything for the rest of eternity without 'getting anywhere'. Knowledge, thinking and debating is an illusion. You probably already know this, but there might be some sort of emotion or tension keeping the attachment running. Maybe somewhere is stomach area? That's where I feel it

I like to think of philosophy as the field that grapples fundamentally with this question:

“What if all we know and we have been taught was wrong all along?”

Someone might look at this and think I’m trying to reduce philosophy down to epistemology. No, I’m not reducing philosophy down to epistemology. What I am doing is trying to pinpoint something that is behind all philosophy, please bear with me for a little while.

In our everyday lives we often take things for granted. We take it for granted that our friend tells us the truth. We take it for granted that science is the best method out there for telling us the truth about the world. We take it for granted that certain actions are wrong and other actions are right. We take it for granted that that movie we watched last night was amazing. We even take it for granted that chairs exist.

Now philosophy looks at all of this stuff and asks: Are we right in supposing that these things are actually the case?

Why is asking and trying to answer this question worthwhile?

Because this question is unavoidable as a part of the human condition.

Imagine someone who is deeply religious. They’ve been raised in religion their entire lives. All of a sudden they start hearing things which contradict their religious teachings. Perhaps they are told that dinosaurs walked the Earth long before God was supposed to create the world. They now ask the question, “Was all I knew wrong all along?” And this doesn’t deal only with this particular belief, it casts fundamental doubt on all the other beliefs they have. From whether God exists to whether morality is justified.

I think you can get a lot of benefits from philosophy if you do it correctly.  If done in  wrong way ..then as you said its just mental masturbation and it leads nowhere. 

[Mandy]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

I don't know , but the fact that I'm even self-aware enough to ask this question means that I'm leagues ahead of most. Don't you think so? 

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

I usually seek attention. I want to be recognised by people as a good person and a knowledgeable person.

The alternative would be to cut back on the arguing and allow more space for listening and allowing what the other person is saying to sink in.

Well..of course I want to be the smartest ,most attractive, most Badass person in the whole world .not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

Pride/conceptualizing how great we are as a separate self always feels less than staying with the Now. Especially since it's quite a pendulum swing back and forth. The separate self can't secure itself. It assumes by being the "bestest" "mostest, "greatest" "est" "est" that it will find that security.

 

NOPE.

 

 

NO.

 

 

Nope.

 

 

Nuh uh.

 

 

Nope.

 

No. 

 

 

Never.

 

 

Not today.

 

 

Not tomorrow.

 

 

Not now. 

 

 

No. 

 

 

Just No.

 

 

But if we just stay, and remember when we shame ourselves or feel lacking that that's not us, or when we feel great and flip to taking credit, that's "not us", there's no reason to leave the wonder of what we really Are for seeking for a concept of it. There isn't "anybody" reading this who is "looking" to see whose coming out on top. All people do is feel resonance of things in the moment that they focus on the interpreted meaning of the words, as you do. Reading the resonance is all there is.

 

 

[nurthur11]

7 hours ago, Phil said:

This is gonna sound harsh but I’m just sayin like it is as best I can, that is mental gymnastics. Veritable doesn’t apply to any knowledge or anything any one says as far as self-recognition goes. It’s is manipulating to act in such a way as to convince any one of this. Emptying the cup is recognizing this has occurred. Again, one can not be too careful with what one consumes. ‘Listen’ to feeling. So to speak, it is within you, always. What feels off - is off. Allow it to be that simple, easy & effortless. 

I am listening to my feeling right now and it feels horrible.  I am also listening a voice in my head saying you cant listen to your feeling that is not possible. Don’t listen to your feeling. Then i am listening a voice that says listen don’t tell them to listen that it doesn't make sense. Now i am listening someone inside trying to do and focus at these words that i am writing. Now he is focusing at the focus and my eyes are hurting. 
 

[Someone here]

12 hours ago, Mandy said:

Pride/conceptualizing how great we are as a separate self always feels less than staying with the Now. Especially since it's quite a pendulum swing back and forth. The separate self can't secure itself. It assumes by being the "bestest" "mostest, "greatest" "est" "est" that it will find that security.

Yes the ego wants to be special  in everything. But for the wrong reason. Which is it thinks its lacking something and seeks completion.  Dammit I'm already sounding like Jim Newman 😂

you can't have enough of X , you want more and more and in all the variety, ego wants more and more of everthing. Sometimes more cars, sometimes bigger cars. Ego tries to get something new in size or numbers.

Man is born empty. Emptiness is his core and X (money ,sex ,power ,fame ,success etc ).is driving force to fill him.

12 hours ago, Mandy said:

But if we just stay, and remember when we shame ourselves or feel lacking that that's not us, or when we feel great and flip to taking credit, that's "not us", there's no reason to leave the wonder of what we really Are for seeking for a concept of it. There isn't "anybody" reading this who is "looking" to see whose coming out on top. All people do is feel resonance of things in the moment that they focus on the interpreted meaning of the words, as you do. Reading the resonance is all there is.

Is there such a thing as a healthy ego 🤔? 

[Mandy]

@Someone here Ego is a term that's helpful for understanding psychology and pointing to the misunderstanding of the seperate self/ taking a thought to be the self but there is no such thing. Desire does not = ego, but doubted desire hurts because there's a seperate self there to make two of it, the self that wants but can't have because of xyz or the self that's so seperated from what it wants, or a self that is bad for wanting. Pure desire is creative, appreciative and fun, it's never needy or impatient or out to prove its worth.

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Mandy said:

Ego is a term that's helpful for understanding psychology and pointing to the misunderstanding of the seperate self/ taking a thought to be the self but there is no such thing

I don't mean the ego as in the illusory separate self.  I mean our pride and self image. Everyone has ego. Even the monk who sells everything to find himself on top of a mountain is acting out of ego since he wants to attain something for himself, enlightenment or ascension. Then you have folks who claim to have ascended, calling themselves masters or gurus. This in itself is egoic and narcissistic.
but instead it is all about the very notion of ‘I’, ‘Me’ or ‘myself’ inside us, the humans. Ego is the characteristic of human nature which seperates the ‘in here’ from the ‘out there’ and therefore prevents us to the spiritual aspect of our being and this world.

1 hour ago, Mandy said:

Desire does not = ego, but doubted desire hurts because there's a seperate self there to make two of it, the self that wants but can't have because of xyz or the self that's so seperated from what it wants, or a self that is bad for wanting. Pure desire is creative, appreciative and fun, it's never needy or impatient or out to prove its worth

Without desire there's no movement, no change, no progress. Imagine you have no desire at all: you will stay in bed, with no desire to eat, no desire to meet people, no desire to explore your talents. So without desire you'll stay in bed and will starve 

I'm definitely NOT suggesting that desire is bad and I want to fulfil many desires in this life. My biggest fear is not achieving anything remarkable with my life.  I believe I have great potential to become someone successful and happy .but  I gotta work really hard for it .

[Mandy]

3 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I don't mean the ego as in the illusory separate self.  I mean our pride and self image. Everyone has ego. Even the monk who sells everything to find himself on top of a mountain is acting out of ego since he wants to attain something for himself, enlightenment or ascension. Then you have folks who claim to have ascended, calling themselves masters or gurus. This in itself is egoic and narcissistic.
but instead it is all about the very notion of ‘I’, ‘Me’ or ‘myself’ inside us, the humans. Ego is the characteristic of human nature which seperates the ‘in here’ from the ‘out there’ and therefore prevents us to the spiritual aspect of our being and this world.

This is only a reflection of what you believe on the world/others. You're assuming motivations on other's behaviors based on how you are seeing the world and other people. 

 

4 minutes ago, Someone here said:

My biggest fear is not achieving anything remarkable with my life.  

That this is a fear is guidance that this is a fear based on false assumption. That's the lens you're seeing the gurus and monks through. 

[Blessed2]

25 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Even the monk who sells everything to find himself on top of a mountain is acting out of ego since he wants to attain something for himself, enlightenment or ascension.

 

This is an assumption. There are more things in heaven and earth...

 

What would be different if you just dropped the assumption/belief that there is such a thing as ego? How would you feel? What would you do differently?

[Someone here]

23 minutes ago, Mandy said:

This is only a reflection of what you believe on the world/others. You're assuming motivations on other's behaviors based on how you are seeing the world and other people. 

Am i ? I mean if enlightened people have no ego of any kind ,how could they survive ?put food on the table and make a living.?

Let’s take someone who is assumed to be enlightened.
The Buddha for instance.
Now Gautama Buddha is sitting with his sangha and teaching about no-self when someone walks up to the gathering and says “Is there a Gautama in the house?”
Now, will the Buddha be incapable of saying “I am Gautama”?
And if he is capable, then what is it within him that allows him to identify himself as Gautama?
That is the ego.
Everyone has an ego or else they would be vegetables.😂

The difference in an enlightened person is, that they know that their ego is a functional entity and not an existential entity.
 

23 minutes ago, Mandy said:

That this is a fear is guidance that this is a fear based on false assumption. That's the lens you're seeing the gurus and monks through. 

Which assumption? Is it guaranteed that I will achieve something epic in my life ? Does everyone live the "good life"? 

[Someone here]

16 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

What would be different if you just dropped the assumption/belief that there is such a thing as ego? How would you feel? What would you do differently?

The ego will never be totally gone until you are dead. Noticing the ego is the best you can do. Laugh at yourself and try to watch yourself and realize you are connected to it, but you are not it. Trying to rid yourself of anything only make it stronger within you. The more you try to shake something loose the more it clings.

I'm not saying it's impossible..but it's very very difficult and rare and you should be suspicious about anyone who Claims to have transcended the ego .

But yeah..I would say When you stop listening to Ego’s demands, then you are left with a quiet mind devoid of that perpetual shouting. 

Then, in all that quietness, you can have the space to get curious about what you want to do next. There's no one making demands on you. You get to choose from a nearly infinite set of options.

[Mandy]

@Someone here Arguing. 

 

8 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Which assumption? Is it guaranteed that I will achieve something epic in my life ? Does everyone live the "good life"? 

I. achieve. something. epic. in. my. life. 

 

That I possess a life is an assumption. That I must achieve, possess something more because life is not enough to make life good is a belief. 

 

Good is not a judgement, it's unconditional. 

 

Any idea of "life" or "my life" is like a dead person in a Victorian post mortem photo, strung up to look lively with their eyes painted on the photograph, but life is only now, and any idea of life is just a dead representation. 

[Blessed2]

@Someone here I'm saying the opposite.

 

47 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

What would be different if you just dropped the assumption/belief that there is such a thing as ego? How would you feel? What would you do differently?

 

I mean that what if there is no, never was, nor will ever be such a thing as "ego". Neither is there "ego-transcendence".

 

Just simply... What is "ego" is just a belief like santa claus or unicorns... Something you just heard about at some point and assumed to be real, when it never was anything more than just a false assumption. Like people used to believe earth is flat etc.

 

How would you feel? How would your life be different?

Edited November 6, 2022 by Blessed2