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Desire feels bad


Kevin
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Hey so I am feeling happy but I find myself desiring more friends and a romantic relationship. I just had a session with phil and it became very clear there that feeling good doesn’t come from anyone or anything. It seems as though all my desires come from feeling unhappy or unsatisfied with things as they are. So I’m thinking if I felt totally awesome and happy and at peace I don’t think I would know what to do with that. Maybe I wouldn’t want anything?

To be clear, I do t thing desire is a negative thing. I think the way I think about desire, the way I frame it up, does not feel good. I think there is a new paradigm that can be stepped into. Maybe no paradigm? I want to know how to get there but if the way forward is no set beliefs or paradigm I’m not sure how to proceed besides just meditating and keeping on keeping on.

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Doubted desire, or having a desire and noticing that it isn't here now, is suffering. Pure desire feels like a really good idea, or excitement, or a realization. For example if I want to lose a few pounds, noticing that I have extra fat and feeling bad about that feels... well, bad. 😂 I'm not at all focused on what I want, I'm focusing on what I don't like. However, making a colorful salad for supper, and thinking about and appreciating all the fresh ingredients I want to put in it, or feeling really good in my body, appreciating how I feel in my body, making time for the kind of exercise I enjoy IS aligning with my desire. Everything I want is because of the way I think I will feel in the having of it, but feeling itself is only ever now. 

 

When I get a really good idea, it's a desire to do something I have not yet done, yet when I get that idea, it feels amazing. I have not introduced any "I want it, BUT, this might get in the way, or it will cost this, or whatever else" resistance, because I haven't yet thought those things yet. The desire, or good idea is completely new. 

 

All desires, are essentially, still, completely new. But it seems as if you've thrown resistance at them. 

 

It's really easy to observe your lack of resistance with small desires because they come suddenly and you don't doubt them at all or nearly as much. It seems like a great idea to read this book, or ask this question, or try this food, or go to this park, etc. All big desires, are really the same as the small ones. Even if you manifest a mansion you can't experience the mansion all at once. You are only ever in room at a time, and it's always now. 

 

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48 minutes ago, Mandy said:

Doubted desire, or having a desire and noticing that it isn't here now, is suffering. Pure desire feels like a really good idea, or excitement, or a realization. For example if I want to lose a few pounds, noticing that I have extra fat and feeling bad about that feels... well, bad. 😂 I'm not at all focused on what I want, I'm focusing on what I don't like. However, making a colorful salad for supper, and thinking about and appreciating all the fresh ingredients I want to put in it, or feeling really good in my body, moving with my body, making time for the kind of exercise I enjoy IS aligning with my desire. 


 

It seems like this is all about feeling good? I believe desires will manifest much more easily if I am happy. Many negative thoughts are still showing up. Mostly around my desire for a relationship. I cannot stop them so I think the best option is to let them go each moment they appear.

48 minutes ago, Mandy said:

When I get a really good idea, it's a desire to do something I have not yet done, yet when I get that idea, it feels amazing. I have not introduced any "I want it, BUT, this might get in the way, or it will cost this, or whatever else" resistance, because I haven't yet thought those things yet. The desire, or good idea is completely new. 


 

the “I want this but” happens to me pretty much immediately in every situation where I see a woman I want to talk to. Would you say the solution is to just keep letting those thoughts go or is there something I am missing.

48 minutes ago, Mandy said:

All desires, are essentially, still, completely new. But it seems as if you've thrown resistance at them. 


 

Does it only seem that way in thought? Yes without thought all desires would be completely new. But we cannot get rid of thought? So maybe getting to a point where thought is unimportant is the solution?

48 minutes ago, Mandy said:

It's really easy to observe your lack of resistance with small desires because they come suddenly and you don't doubt them at all or nearly as much. It seems like a great idea to read this book, or ask this question, or try this food, or go to this park, etc. All big desires, are really the same as the small ones. Even if you manifest a mansion you can't experience the mansion all at once. You are only ever in room at a time, and it's always now. 

 

Yes small desires show up a good amount of the time. Maybe the most important thing isn’t the big desire that I put on the dream board but the action I take now to realize that desire?

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Boy do I hear that brother. Just today actually the desire to eat arose from feeling unhappy & unsatisfied about hunger. I told my wife and she was all “why don’t you just focus on what you want to eat”? Can you even believe that!? The nerve, after all these years. I’m starting to think maybe it’s true some people are just toxic, dumb, low conscious and need to be cut out of my life.

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24 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Boy do I hear that brother. Just today actually the desire to eat arose from feeling unhappy & unsatisfied about hunger. I told my wife and she was all “why don’t you just focus on what you want to eat”? Can you even believe that!? The nerve, after all these years. I’m starting to think maybe it’s true some people are just toxic, dumb, low conscious and need to be cut out of my life.

 

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21 hours ago, Kevin said:

It seems like this is all about feeling good? I believe desires will manifest much more easily if I am happy. Many negative thoughts are still showing up. Mostly around my desire for a relationship. I cannot stop them so I think the best option is to let them go each moment they appear.

It's not necessarily a black and white, "good stuff happens when I do it right and am happy all the time".  Just get curious about the negative ones. Contrast is a good thing, resistance is not necessary. Often when something reeeally "bad" happens you realize later it was sooo incredibly lucky, it's just your perspective, curiosity and openness means that everything that happens is just not judged good or bad, and guess what? That includes the thoughts. 🤯

22 hours ago, Kevin said:

The “I want this but” happens to me pretty much immediately in every situation where I see a woman I want to talk to. Would you say the solution is to just keep letting those thoughts go or is there something I am missing.

"The I want this but" is present in the belief that this happens in every situation where you see a woman you want to talk to. I want to focus on what I want.... BUT. Isn't it funny how direct it, is, how sneaky? It's so funny and direct, there's nothing to feel bad or sense any sort of lack about. 

23 hours ago, Kevin said:

Does it only seem that way in thought? Yes without thought all desires would be completely new. But we cannot get rid of thought? So maybe getting to a point where thought is unimportant is the solution?

The point where it's funny. 

23 hours ago, Kevin said:

Yes small desires show up a good amount of the time. Maybe the most important thing isn’t the big desire that I put on the dream board but the action I take now to realize that desire?

Action isn't nearly as important as you think, but of course if there's a clear action you want to take, do that.  Everything on that board is like a web, each thing serves one another, seemingly in complete disconnection, yet without any agenda. The most smallest thing on the board (or what may have even not made it on your board) might just be the key to the "biggest" desire on there. Part of the fun is the surprise and mystery. For example you might on a whim go to some event, and meet someone there. Serendipity ensues when we aren't trying to force things into becoming from the motivation of lack. 

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14 hours ago, Mandy said:

It's not necessarily a black and white, "good stuff happens when I do it right and am happy all the time".  Just get curious about the negative ones. Contrast is a good thing, resistance is not necessary. Often when something reeeally "bad" happens you realize later it was sooo incredibly lucky, it's just your perspective, curiosity and openness means that everything that happens is just not judged good or bad, and guess what? That includes the thoughts. 🤯

"The I want this but" is present in the belief that this happens in every situation where you see a woman you want to talk to. I want to focus on what I want.... BUT. Isn't it funny how direct it, is, how sneaky? It's so funny and direct, there's nothing to feel bad or sense any sort of lack about. 

The point where it's funny. 

Action isn't nearly as important as you think, but of course if there's a clear action you want to take, do that.  Everything on that board is like a web, each thing serves one another, seemingly in complete disconnection, yet without any agenda. The most smallest thing on the board (or what may have even not made it on your board) might just be the key to the "biggest" desire on there. Part of the fun is the surprise and mystery. For example you might on a whim go to some event, and meet someone there. Serendipity ensues when we aren't trying to force things into becoming from the motivation of lack. 

Thank you this makes sense.

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2 hours ago, Phil said:

@Kevin

the desire to eat arose from feeling unhappy & unsatisfied about hunger

What if there wasn’t the feeling of unhappy & unsatisfied about hunger… 

Wouldn’t the desire to eat still arise? 

Oh haha I just took for granted that those arise together. I never thought about it like that. You’re right though I’d still want to eat even if I wasn’t pissed about being hungry.

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23 minutes ago, Kevin said:

Oh haha I just took for granted that those arise together. I never thought about it like that. You’re right though I’d still want to eat even if I wasn’t pissed about being hungry.

Would you agree…

It  didn’t make sense, but you kinda skipped over or ignored it vs questioning & understanding why or what about it didn’t make sense.

Upon inspection, desire does not come from feeling unhappy or unsatisfied. 

There can be happiness & satisfaction, and desire can still arise. 

If so…

On 9/14/2022 at 6:05 PM, Phil said:

I told my wife and she was all “why don’t you just focus on what you want to eat”? Can you even believe that!? The nerve, after all these years. I’m starting to think maybe it’s true some people are just toxic, dumb, low conscious and need to be cut out of my life.

What do you make of this? What doesn’t make sense about it? 

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3 hours ago, Phil said:

Would you agree…

It  didn’t make sense, but you kinda skipped over or ignored it vs questioning & understanding why or what about it didn’t make sense.

Upon inspection, desire does not come from feeling unhappy or unsatisfied. 

There can be happiness & satisfaction, and desire can still arise. 

If so…

What do you make of this? What doesn’t make sense about it? 

I skipped over it before because I was feeling pretty angry at life when I read it and I didn’t know how to interpret it besides sarcasm. I know it wasn’t sarcasm you never make negative comments like that I just wasn’t sure how to respond.

 

now looking at it there’s a lot of judgement about people being toxic and low consciousness which doesn’t make sense. Also I guess focusing on being unhappy about being hungry isn’t necessary. The desire could be there without the unhappiness. Am I missing something?

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2 hours ago, Kevin said:

 

now looking at it there’s a lot of judgement about people being toxic and low consciousness which doesn’t make sense. Also I guess focusing on being unhappy about being hungry isn’t necessary. The desire could be there without the unhappiness. Am I missing something?

I thought the desire was coming from feeling unhappy or dissatisfied, but that was actually just how the judgement felt. I was judging what is, believing it should be a different way. Now I’m listening to the anger, and focusing on what I’m going to eat, and without the judgement there isn’t any unhappiness or dissatisfaction. 

 

There’s still the desire though, and I think I’m gonna have a loophole shake. 

This desire doesn’t seem to actually come from anywhere. Just like feeling & hunger. 

We eat because we get hungry, but we don’t get hungry because we eat. 

 

As far as a different paradigm or no paradigm… judgement, angry at life, unhappy, unsatisfied… vs… unconditional, experience of the emotion of anger, and the concepts of unhappiness and dissatisfaction. Feel for the difference. See if unhappiness & dissatisfaction are ever actually present when desire is. I bet it’s actually one or the other. 

 

6 hours ago, fopylo said:

@Phil

Jokes aside, is this an expression of anger?

Yeah I think I really made an error in judgement and misunderstood what I was feeling. I should probably go and call my wife now. 

 

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14 hours ago, Phil said:

 

I thought the desire was coming from feeling unhappy or dissatisfied, but that was actually just how the judgement felt. I was judging what is, believing it should be a different way. Now I’m listening to the anger, and focusing on what I’m going to eat, and without the judgement there isn’t any unhappiness or dissatisfaction. 

 

There’s still the desire though, and I think I’m gonna have a loophole shake. 

This desire doesn’t seem to actually come from anywhere. Just like feeling & hunger. 

We eat because we get hungry, but we don’t get hungry because we eat. 

 

As far as a different paradigm or no paradigm… judgement, angry at life, unhappy, unsatisfied… vs… unconditional, experience of the emotion of anger, and the concepts of unhappiness and dissatisfaction. Feel for the difference. See if unhappiness & dissatisfaction are ever actually present when desire is. I bet it’s actually one or the other. 

 

Yeah I think I really made an error in judgement and misunderstood what I was feeling. I should probably go and call my wife now. 

 

This makes a lot of sense. When I do jiu jitsu id say 95% of the time it’s just desire. I rarely feel bad about it. I feel desire to be better. Not because I’m pissed about being bad but because I love doing it. 
I notice in other areas, soon after noticing a desire thoughts about doubt and fear come up. That usually becomes the main focus. Not the desire.

 

It’s interesting because the idea that desire is negative seems like a very common spiritual teaching. Teachers often talk about how you need to surrender your desire.

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47 minutes ago, Kevin said:

This makes a lot of sense. When I do jiu jitsu id say 95% of the time it’s just desire. I rarely feel bad about it. I feel desire to be better. Not because I’m pissed about being bad but because I love doing it. 

Makes sense.

And also, can we scrutinize a bit more? 

I rarely feel bad… about it”. 

What is it which is thought, believed & said to feel bad… the I

What is it which actually feels bad… the it

The underlying belief is sometimes I feel bad & sometimes I feel good. 

That isn’t true, it’s a thought, believed. 

What’s true is sometimes experience feels good to me, and sometimes experience feels bad to me. Isn’t it so? 

There is no experience of how I feel to me. I = me. I is me. Same One. Not two. Yes? 

 

“Not because I’m pissed about being bad…”

While it would seem like the pissed is because you’re bad, it’s actually how the thoughts… that you’re pissed… and that you’re bad… feel. The thought is experienced. You are not experienced by you. True?

 

Old paradigm: “I’m pissed”, “I’m bad”. 

New Paradigm: “I’m pissed” is a belief about yourself. “I’m bad” is a belief about yourself. 

Direct Experience: “I’m experiencing anger” is not a belief about yourself. It’s a descriptive thought about your experience. 

 

47 minutes ago, Kevin said:


I notice in other areas, soon after noticing a desire thoughts about doubt and fear come up. That usually becomes the main focus. Not the desire.

But is that actually what you experience?

Do thoughts about doubt & fear come up?

Or do some other thoughts come up… and doubt & fear are what’s felt…are the emotions experienced?

 

Appreciation is like a magic tool which makes those other areas like the jiu jitsu. This is one of those ‘if you do this for three days it actually will change your entire life’ things… and it actually will. Write “relationship” on a piece of paper with three lines under it, numbered 1,2,3. Then fill in those lines with three things you appreciate about having a relationship. Then do the same with “friends”. You don’t have to actually have a relationship or friends right now to do this. It’s actually better that you don’t, because you get to experience alignment & consciously creating that you do. 

47 minutes ago, Kevin said:

 

It’s interesting because the idea that desire is negative seems like a very common spiritual teaching. Teachers often talk about how you need to surrender your desire.

I think it came from a misinterpretation of Buddhism & Hinduism when it moved from eastern culture & mindset to western. Originally it was ‘surrender your desire’, quickly resulting in the realization one is now desiring to be without desire. In the west ‘surrender your desire’ still seems to be interpreted as ‘then you’ll become enlightened’ / then you’ll be “The Enlightened Self”. 😂 

 

 

 

 

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On 9/14/2022 at 6:05 PM, Phil said:

maybe it’s true some people are just toxic, dumb, low conscious and need to be cut out of my life

Received a message about this and thought I’d clarify. Humor was employed here to draw out a certain obviousness that there isn’t a “you”… (who is toxic, dumb, low conscious, etc, which needs to be cut). This “you” would of course be a conceptualization of “other” employed to rationalize & justify the discord of suffering, vs inspecting beliefs resulting in a change of words, behaviors & actions.

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On 9/17/2022 at 9:29 AM, Phil said:

Makes sense.

And also, can we scrutinize a bit more? 

I rarely feel bad… about it”. 

What is it which is thought, believed & said to feel bad… the I

What is it which actually feels bad… the it

The underlying belief is sometimes I feel bad & sometimes I feel good. 

That isn’t true, it’s a thought, believed. 

What’s true is sometimes experience feels good to me, and sometimes experience feels bad to me. Isn’t it so? 

There is no experience of how I feel to me. I = me. I is me. Same One. Not two. Yes? 


 

yes makes sense I follow what you are saying here. Also I guess I sometimes feel good and I sometimes feel bad is a conceptualization of what’s going on. I can only feel now. The thought about how I felt bad, feels bad now.

On 9/17/2022 at 9:29 AM, Phil said:

“Not because I’m pissed about being bad…”

While it would seem like the pissed is because you’re bad, it’s actually how the thoughts… that you’re pissed… and that you’re bad… feel. The thought is experienced. You are not experienced by you. True?


 

True.

On 9/17/2022 at 9:29 AM, Phil said:

Old paradigm: “I’m pissed”, “I’m bad”. 

New Paradigm: “I’m pissed” is a belief about yourself. “I’m bad” is a belief about yourself. 

Direct Experience: “I’m experiencing anger” is not a belief about yourself. It’s a descriptive thought about your experience. 


 

The shift from something is wrong with me to what’s going on in my experience really simplifies things. 

On 9/17/2022 at 9:29 AM, Phil said:

But is that actually what you experience?

Do thoughts about doubt & fear come up?

Or do some other thoughts come up… and doubt & fear are what’s felt…are the emotions experienced?


 

Nah you’re right thoughts come up and what is felt is doubt and fear.

On 9/17/2022 at 9:29 AM, Phil said:

Appreciation is like a magic tool which makes those other areas like the jiu jitsu. This is one of those ‘if you do this for three days it actually will change your entire life’ things… and it actually will. Write “relationship” on a piece of paper with three lines under it, numbered 1,2,3. Then fill in those lines with three things you appreciate about having a relationship. Then do the same with “friends”. You don’t have to actually have a relationship or friends right now to do this. It’s actually better that you don’t, because you get to experience alignment & consciously creating that you do. 
 

I’m definitely gonna do this today. Sounds perfect. Thank you.

On 9/17/2022 at 9:29 AM, Phil said:

I think it came from a misinterpretation of Buddhism & Hinduism when it moved from eastern culture & mindset to western. Originally it was ‘surrender your desire’, quickly resulting in the realization one is now desiring to be without desire. In the west ‘surrender your desire’ still seems to be interpreted as ‘then you’ll become enlightened’ / then you’ll be “The Enlightened Self”. 😂 

 

 

 

 

Damn that’s really interesting. My first thought was about what then is the next step. It’s like a logical trap and I’m not sure what to do with it.😂

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