Does addiction to thoughts ever end?

[Forza21]

Thoughts are so tricky.

 

"From now on i'm going to present!" -

"Oh i'm doing so good being at the  moment"

" I can't stay present"

"I'm going to observe thoughts..."
" I have 1000 thoughts !"
" I can't find peace"

" I  need to be here and now to get enlightenment"

 

Thoughts thoughts thoughts, all mind, mind, mind.

Mind has tremendous power to pull your attention to thoughts.

 

Does it ever end? Do thoughts become less addictive at times? How?

Edited August 30, 2022 by Forza21

[James123]

10 minutes ago, Forza21 said:

Thoughts are so tricky.

 

"From now on i'm going to present!" -

"Oh i'm doing so good being at the  moment"

" I can't stay present"

"I'm going to observe thoughts..."
" I have 1000 thoughts !"
" I can't find peace"

" I  need to be here and now to get enlightenment"

 

Thoughts thoughts thoughts, all mind, mind, mind.

Mind has tremendous power to pull your attention to thoughts.

 

Does it ever end? Do thoughts become less addictive at times? How?

Yes. Attachment with the thoughts can be stopped. You learned the thoughts within almost 6 years (since your birth?, and getting attached more day by day. So you will have to meditate, contemplate, help, love, tell the the truth, not lie, don't be selfish, share etc.. as much as it 

[Phil]

How’s daily morning meditation & expression journaling going? 

Might want to tweak your techniques. 

[Forza21]

38 minutes ago, Phil said:

How’s daily morning meditation & expression journaling going? 

Might want to tweak your techniques. 

I meditate daily, for at least 1h a day in the morning. Sometimes, when i have time, up to 2-3h during the whole day.

 

It's either "doing nothing" meditation, or self-inquire. Here i can't stick to one routine.

So it's either asking " who am i?" and staying with "i'm sense". Or just watching thoughts and labeling them as "thought"/ let go OR ask "to whom does it thought arise?" and look there, trying to find this "I". Sometimes i inquire on "what is thought?" or "what is sound?", or " what is thought made of?" "who hears this sound?" "Where's the boundary between me/sound?" , "what is sensation?" "etc.

 

I can't really stick to one question for a long time, so i constantly change inquiry questions. I also inquiry a lot during my day.

 

As to expression journaling, it's going good,  i constantly try to find hidden beliefs this way.  For example, " i'll try to be present" or "i'll observe thoughts from now on..." those are thoughts, which were unnoticed for a very long time.

I also see, that there are some very subtle thoughts, as for example, image of my face/body when i talk to someone or even when i mediate.  Those are really hard to notice.

So i work at this, but this unraveling and addiction to "mind stories" are really strong...
 

1 hour ago, James123 said:

Yes. Attachment with the thoughts can be stopped. You learned the thoughts within almost 6 years (since your birth?, and getting attached more day by day. So you will have to meditate, contemplate, help, love, tell the the truth, not lie, don't be selfish, share etc.. as much as it 

Thanks! True, it's been almost 30 years mind identified, so it won't take a day, for sure... 😉

 

[Phil]

5 hours ago, Forza21 said:

I meditate daily, for at least 1h a day in the morning. Sometimes, when i have time, up to 2-3h during the whole day.

 

It's either "doing nothing" meditation, or self-inquire. Here i can't stick to one routine.

So it's either asking " who am i?" and staying with "i'm sense". Or just watching thoughts and labeling them as "thought"/ let go OR ask "to whom does it thought arise?" and look there, trying to find this "I". Sometimes i inquire on "what is thought?" or "what is sound?", or " what is thought made of?" "who hears this sound?" "Where's the boundary between me/sound?" , "what is sensation?" "etc.

 

I can't really stick to one question for a long time, so i constantly change inquiry questions. I also inquiry a lot during my day.

With respect to the do nothing practice, focusing on asking or proposing questions is doing something.

 

Self Inquiry as a meditative practice is asking what am I… letting any arising thought come & go… and only feeling for the ‘answer’. It’s done with a clear mind, without focusing on questions or thoughts as well. 

 

Basic meditation is focusing on feeling the breath, and is often preliminary to do nothing & self inquiry on the progressive path because it allows the mind to clear. 

 

5 hours ago, Forza21 said:

 

As to expression journaling, it's going good,  i constantly try to find hidden beliefs this way.  For example, " i'll try to be present" or "i'll observe thoughts from now on..." those are thoughts, which were unnoticed for a very long time.

I also see, that there are some very subtle thoughts, as for example, image of my face/body when i talk to someone or even when i mediate.  Those are really hard to notice.

So i work at this, but this unraveling and addiction to "mind stories" are really strong...

When questioning or inspecting the thoughts, also question the thoughts that there is a mind, thought addiction, and someone working at it. 🙂 

[Forza21]

10 hours ago, Phil said:

With respect to the do nothing practice, focusing on asking or proposing questions is doing something.

 

Self Inquiry as a meditative practice is asking what am I… letting any arising thought come & go… and only feeling for the ‘answer’. It’s done with a clear mind, without focusing on questions or thoughts as well. 

 

Basic meditation is focusing on feeling the breath, and is often preliminary to do nothing & self inquiry on the progressive path because it allows the mind to clear. 

 

When questioning or inspecting the thoughts, also question the thoughts that there is a mind, thought addiction, and someone working at it. 🙂 

Yes, it's either "do nothing" or "self inquiry".  

If it comes to self inquiry - does it really matter what question do i ask? it seems, that is only "play" for "seeking mind" and it all leads to the same sense of present. The question seems totally irrelevant. 

The hardest part is all "doubt" thoughts, not so easy to notice 🙂 Or is it a thought... 🤣


 

 

10 hours ago, Phil said:

 

 

When questioning or inspecting the thoughts, also question the thoughts that there is a mind, thought addiction, and someone working at it. 🙂 

haha, yes.  Right. It's next identity, of "the one who's addicted to thoughts" therefore, another thought believed.😅

It's weird and very paradoxical.

At first, it seems, like there's someone, who goes into a journey towards enlightenment.

It's weird, because the one who's observing thoughts is thought itself.

So thoughts, somehow, become aware of itself, right?

There's not even "a person" who believes/not believes in these thoughts, and yet  it really seems that way, due to activity of thoughts.

It's only consciousness moving.

So there's not even choosing when "do i put" my lens of attention? 

So "do -nothing" meditation is simply the way it is, and it's what's really happening. But it takes time to click?😅

 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Forza21

[Blessed2]

17 hours ago, James123 said:

tell the the truth, not lie

 

I've heard this before. "Do not lie. Always tell the truth."

 

Why? Why is this important?

[Mandy]

@Blessed2 The amount of thought attachment/feeling repression required in consciously telling someone something that's not true is enormous. 

[Forza21]

  

  

12 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

 

I've heard this before. "Do not lie. Always tell the truth."

 

Why? Why is this important?

 
For me, you can't really work through illusion, when you are not brutally honest with yourself.

And lying to others = lying to yourself

We all have some masks, acting, plays, and it's all created, to gain something, mostly from others. But the problem is, without authenticity, we can't really know what's real, and under those masks.

For example, i'm willing to admit, that i'm an egoistic creature,  and most of my life, is oriented towards gaining pleasure/avoiding MY suffering. Even if it comes to helping others, i'm doing it, because it gives me good feeling/other benefits. (mostly.) and not because i'm so good and altruistic. (but i of course want others to think about me that way.)

Seeing that, it's really undermining ego mechanism, which runs mostly on lies and deceptions. We just basically learn to know our "enemy"  and see it through.😉

Edited August 31, 2022 by Forza21

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Forza21 said:

Yes, it's either "do nothing" or "self inquiry".  

If it comes to self inquiry - does it really matter what question do i ask? it seems, that is only "play" for "seeking mind" and it all leads to the same sense of present. The question seems totally irrelevant. 

The hardest part is all "doubt" thoughts, not so easy to notice 🙂 Or is it a thought... 🤣

For thoughts of doubt, don’t avert, avoid or suppress in any way. Welcome, allow, express. Use the emotional scale and journaling. 

 

The question for self inquiry is very relevant, yes. Because the answer isn’t another thought, it’s only feeling. 

 

1 hour ago, Forza21 said:

At first, it seems, like there's someone, who goes into a journey towards enlightenment.

It's weird, because the one who's observing thoughts is thought itself.

So thoughts, somehow, become aware of itself, right?

There's not even "a person" who believes/not believes in these thoughts, and yet  it really seems that way, due to activity of thoughts.

It's only consciousness moving.

So there's not even choosing when "do i put" my lens of attention? 

So "do -nothing" meditation is simply the way it is, and it's what's really happening. But it takes time to click?😅

That there is an observer, separate of what’s observed, is the activity of thought. But thoughts don’t ‘become aware of itself’. Though there is more than ample misguidance & misinformation available ‘out there’,  there is no aspect of anything or anyone becoming aware. That framing undermines all of the practices. What is aware is already aware., and is unobscured as the activity of thought settles. 

 

The not doing of the do nothing practice includes letting thoughts about the do nothing practice come & go. 

 

Just a reminder too, if basic meditation, do nothing and self inquiry are overwhelming at all due to the activity of thought, concentration (single pointedness) narrows the activity of thought to one object, making the other practices more readily approachable. 

[James123]

3 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

 

I've heard this before. "Do not lie. Always tell the truth."

 

Why? Why is this important?

Because, ego is lie itself and %50 of the ego is based on lie for survival.

[Dima]

On 8/30/2022 at 7:39 PM, Forza21 said:

Mind has tremendous power to pull your attention to thoughts.

 

Does it ever end? Do thoughts become less addictive at times? How?

There is no mind that pull attention to thinking, there is just believing in thinking. See thinking as birds singing, the task is stop listening to birds (do not react) that don't feel good, just let them go, pass by.

[Forza21]

Just now, Dima said:

There is no mind that pull attention to thinking, there is just believing in thinking. See thinking as birds singing, the task is stop listening to birds (do not react) that don't feel good, just let them go, pass by.

but who believes in thinking?

 

i'm not being picky,  i just can't grasp it still, what's the difference between being conscious of thoughts vs unconscious

[Dima]

12 minutes ago, Forza21 said:

but who believes in thinking?

 

i'm not being picky,  i just can't grasp it still, what's the difference between being conscious of thoughts vs unconscious

Noone, or you, everything believes in thinking, thinking is also noone, or you, everything 😁 quite confusing.

 

Start small. Let say you are angry on someone: there is a choice - react or let anger go by switching attention from thinking to something else (e.g. deep breathing), by relaxing. That's exactly the difference between being conscious of thoughts or unconscious. See it as a skill that can be build via daily meditation, psychedelics, etc - skill of letting thinking go, skill of seeing that there is a gap between you and thinking, you are not just thinking.

So, once skill is built go and test it in real life situations, go to someone that annoy you and show how you love them 🫶