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Beliefs about suffering


noomii
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I have a difficult time accepting suffering as a part of life. Everything about life just seem to be too complex, difficult. I just want to avoid suffering completely.

It seems kind of meaningless to me to inspect thoughts because until I've done that I will suffer and after that I will suffer again.
I'm only motivated to improve by the idea that I'll somehow eradicate suffering completely, believing I can only be at peace/truly happy when I've done that.

If it's all just an illusion anyways I don't see the point in going through suffering.
All I really want is to feel truly at peace and happy now and always. 

I can't ignore these thoughts and just go on focusing other things because they seem to hold me back a lot in a lot I do and they just feel heavy.
I currently feel a lot of fear around money/career. If I knew that living(loving) life fully is the only way, that it's the best way and that fully accepting suffering/all of life is totally worth it, I would do much better.

I'm willing to question when it feels good to do it, but everything about life still feels too difficult and I don't see the meaning with improvement/effort/work/going through suffering if I'm still going to suffer no matter what I do.

How can one find the willingness to truly live life fully? To truly love this present moment?
What is the most effective way to let go/take care of suicidal thoughts, to let go of beliefs about suffering and to see truth?

I'm aware of the responsibility I have about getting the professional help I need.

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@noomii Life is really not complex, your thoughts just make it so. If you are not meditating, I would really recommend you to do start that today. Loads of good apps that starts very basic and with short durations. Just 20 mins each morning is crazy beneficial to get some distance from your thoughts.

 

You suffer not because life is complex, but because you believe it is so. You might also believe that you should have achieved x by now, and that others are having more fun than you, etc etc etc, all causing you to suffer in the now. 

 

You might have heard this a million times, but I would recommend using the emotional scale found on this site under tools, and express the emotions you are feeling mostly. Just try it as best you can, even if you feel a little unsure if you are doing it "right", I did at least.  

If you don't, you are experiencing the world through whatever emotions you are stuck with, and that can be heavy stuff.. but it has nothing to do with the world or your situation, but instead shows where you are looking from.

 

You show great willingness to get better by writing here, so I'm sure you'll get flowing. Just take the first step mate, you got this

Edited by WhiteOwl
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3 hours ago, WhiteOwl said:

@noomii Life is really not complex, your thoughts just make it so. If you are not meditating, I would really recommend you to do start that today. Loads of good apps that starts very basic and with short durations. Just 20 mins each morning is crazy beneficial to get some distance from your thoughts.

Yes I've meditated for four years. Not kidding I'm pretty sure I've done it wrong most of the time because of my attitude/expectations and just lack of actual focus lol. Or it's just not enough. The only time I experienced tangible benefits from meditation was in the beginning, I did guided ones. After a while I think I started to try to control the experience.

I do breath awareness for 35 min, that's the best one for me now. It would probably be helpful if I did it for a longer time. I've not managed to relax that often.

I do breath work everyday yet still very restricted/shallow breath. I even did breath work before bed last night for half an hour but even after that it took me half an hour to fall asleep because of shallow breathing, I wasn't really feeling anxious it was just that I couldn't breath properly. And I wake up during night breathing shallow. I only do nose breathing and take deep breaths as often as I can.

 

Emotional scale is the only thing I know that works for me currently that naturally makes me breath freely and fully while I do it. I just feel so exhausted after I've done it because it usually takes me one hour. So I don't do it now but I know I can if I want to. 

 

And I'm bringing awareness to emotions I feel everyday a lot. That's almost like doing the emotional scale but for some reason feels easier and more free to me. So I wouldn't say I'm avoiding everything I feel, I'm doing good allowing a lot of emotions.

What's missing is that I'm not fully present with the emotions I feel about the things I'm unwilling to accept about life...

Those thoughts just seem so convincing to me.

 

3 hours ago, WhiteOwl said:

You suffer not because life is complex, but because you believe it is so. You might also believe that you should have achieved x by now, and that others are having more fun than you, etc etc etc, all causing you to suffer in the now. 

I did have those thoughts today. 😂

 I'm aware that when I feel overwhelmed by a lot of things I always wish I could dissappear. I've had those wishes almost everyday for a long time "in the background", that I just ignore, but sometimes they get so loud when I feel overwhelm.

When I feel better I'm mostly just focused on something else and I keep going but these same thoughts shared in my post keep coming back and try to convince me that they're true.

 

I've had some distance from it the whole day today because I've focused on other stuff.

 

 

Edited by noomii
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On 8/23/2022 at 11:19 AM, noomii said:

I have a difficult time accepting suffering as a part of life.

Rightfully so. Suffering isn’t actually a part of life. 

On 8/23/2022 at 11:19 AM, noomii said:

It seems kind of meaningless to me to inspect thoughts because  

- - - - - - until I've done that I will suffer and after that I will suffer again - - - - -

Thoughts are being used as the reason not to inspect thoughts. The thoughts being used are about another you.

When the thoughts are questioned, as to if they’re true, it’s realized there aren’t two of you… there were just thoughts about there being two of you.There isn’t that (second self) the thoughts are about. Just a lot of relief, lightheartedness and sooner or later laughter & feeling really amazing. 

On 8/23/2022 at 11:19 AM, noomii said:

I'm only motivated to improve by the idea that I'll somehow eradicate suffering completely, believing I can only be at peace/truly happy when I've done that.

Also rightfully so. That’s not a belief, that’s perfectly accurate. 

There’s no effort involved in this questioning of thoughts.

Improvement doesn’t play any role there though, just the questioning of if the thoughts are true or not.

Suffering is believing they’re true. Liberation is realizing they’re thoughts.

This is why people seem to awaken and say ‘how could I ever have missed it, it’s the most obvious thing!’

 

Meditation is the way to go. If it isn’t working, you aren’t doing it correctly. 

If the mind is uncontrollable in wandering, that’s a little different. In that case do singled pointed concentration. This allows the mind to calm & quiet by focusing on one single thing. Then later switch to ‘regular’ meditation. 

On 8/23/2022 at 11:19 AM, noomii said:

If it's all just an illusion anyways I don't see the point in going through suffering.

Reality isn’t illusory, the separate self of thought is illusory. 

 

On 8/23/2022 at 11:19 AM, noomii said:

All I really want is to feel truly at peace and happy now and always. 

You actually already do. In the same way the clear sky is always present. The discordant thoughts are like clouds, and just make it seem like the true nature isn’t ever-present. The clouds go poof upon inspection, and more and more it’s readily felt the sky has always been clear. 

 

On 8/23/2022 at 11:19 AM, noomii said:

I can't ignore these thoughts and just go on focusing other things because they seem to hold me back a lot in a lot I do and they just feel heavy.

Sure you can. 🙂

That thoughts hold you back… is a thought.

It’s only that believing of the thoughts which is the problem. 

 

On 8/23/2022 at 11:19 AM, noomii said:

I currently feel a lot of fear around money/career. If I knew that living(loving) life fully is the only way, that it's the best way and that fully accepting suffering/all of life is totally worth it, I would do much better.

Just like the only way to know ice feels cold is to touch ice, you discover living & loving life fully is most worthwhile, by living & loving life fully. 

There is no fear around money & career. Fear is how some thoughts / beliefs feel, because of the truth of what is possible for you. 

 

On 8/23/2022 at 11:19 AM, noomii said:

I'm willing to question when it feels good to do it, but everything about life still feels too difficult and I don't see the meaning with improvement/effort/work/going through suffering if I'm still going to suffer no matter what I do.

It’s from judgement. Basically believing how you feel is because of other stuff. Stuff other than the thoughts & beliefs. 

You aren’t feeling “everything about life”, just the thoughts about life. 

 

On 8/23/2022 at 11:19 AM, noomii said:

How can one find the willingness to truly live life fully? To truly love this present moment?

You’re already willing to. That’s why it isn’t findable. 

 

On 8/23/2022 at 11:19 AM, noomii said:

What is the most effective way to let go/take care of suicidal thoughts, to let go of beliefs about suffering and to see truth?

I'm aware of the responsibility I have about getting the professional help I need.

The most effective way is to not delay, to immediately google ‘suicide prevention hotline’ and talk to someone. They want to, and very much will help. 

Second to that, talk to someone. Ideally someone who listens, and doesn’t hold any of the beliefs you hold. This make it much easier to see beliefs as beliefs, which is the same as saying ‘letting them go’. Once a belief is seen as not true, it can’t be believed again. 

Short of those, inspecting the thoughts / beliefs. 

 

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On 8/23/2022 at 11:41 PM, Lotus said:

@noomii

 

When you wrote this post, was that inspired by the willingness to finally live life?

I felt inspired with the hope to feel better and see more clearly. In a way that was me opening up to life.

The willingness was never lost and I never stopped living fully. In a sense one always lives fully.
What I first meant with "living fully" was to live as I truly want, I feel like I'm not.


 

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On 8/23/2022 at 7:11 PM, Phil said:

Rightfully so. Suffering isn’t actually a part of life. 

I want to see that. A lot of thoughts are saying "it's not possible, I won't make it happen, there's too much thoughts to inspect."

 

On 8/23/2022 at 7:11 PM, Phil said:

There’s no effort involved in this questioning of thoughts.

I think a part of what feels like effort for me with questioning is that I feel tensions in the head and it tend to feel worse when focusing on anything. I find it difficult to have a relaxed focus.

 

On 8/23/2022 at 7:11 PM, Phil said:

Meditation is the way to go. If it isn’t working, you aren’t doing it correctly. 

If the mind is uncontrollable in wandering, that’s a little different. In that case do single pointed concentration. This allows the mind to calm & quiet by focusing on one single thing. Then later switch to ‘regular’ meditation. 

 

It would feel so good to have something to blame on for lack of progress in meditation 😂...

I will try concentration practice. I remember I tried it for some time but I was very rigid and not gentle at all, that didn't work, didn't feel good and I just felt frustrated.
However that link is going to Contemplations, same with the link on your site.

 

Thank you Phil 😊
 

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12 hours ago, noomii said:

I felt inspired with the hope to feel better and see more clearly. In a way that was me opening up to life.

Opening up is beautiful. :classic_smile:

 

You could think of the inspiration like a lotus flower opening up. Inspiration is like a seed, which can grow in the right environment. It's a seed you can actually feel within. With enough care, the seed blossoms from the mud to a lovely lotus flower.

 

Inspiration blossoms by giving it careful attention and allowing it to grow; by listening to the inspiration and acting accordingly &  by letting go of everything, which isn't serving your wellbeing. 🙏

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On 8/26/2022 at 8:52 AM, Lotus said:

Opening up is beautiful. :classic_smile:

 

You could think of the inspiration like a lotus flower opening up. Inspiration is like a seed, which can grow in the right environment. It's a seed you can actually feel within. With enough care, the seed blossoms from the mud to a lovely lotus flower.

 

Inspiration blossoms by giving it careful attention and allowing it to grow; by listening to the inspiration and acting accordingly &  by letting go of everything, which isn't serving your wellbeing. 🙏

Beautiful. 😊

 

On 8/28/2022 at 2:01 PM, Phil said:

Thank you. What would you say is an easy object to focus on for a beginner?

 

On 8/28/2022 at 2:01 PM, Phil said:

@noomii

One easy way to see through the beliefs would be to re-read this thread taking the word life out each time it’s used, and putting a much more specific word in. 

Love. ❤

 

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2 hours ago, noomii said:

Thank you. What would you say is an easy object to focus on for a beginner?

A candle.  But also there something to be said for the practice with any object, any time wherever you are. 

 

2 hours ago, noomii said:

Love. ❤

Best answer ever!

It’s also good to inspect perspectives to dispel beliefs. Sometimes people say “life” and the discordant perspective is more specifically about category like relationships, or money, or independence, or anything else. It’s great to ‘pop the bubbles’.  

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On 8/29/2022 at 11:02 PM, Phil said:

A candle.  But also there something to be said for the practice with any object, any time wherever you are. 

 

So I started the practice when you suggested it.

I didn't do the candle as it hurts a bit, I'm light sensitive. But I've been experimenting with different visual objects and that works with me.

I do 5 min of it and then I just do breath awareness 30 min. Then later I noticed it might be good to do it one more time 5 min during the day.

I notice a slight difference in me during the day.

Focusing on the breath still feels difficult. What I do during that time is just to try bringing back my attention to where I feel the breath in my belly, whenever I notice the mind wandering away. Seems difficult to me to focus clearly on the actual sensations even though I try to and I'm pretty tense in the body the whole time.

I might just need more concentration.

@Phil Should I be able to concentrate flawlessly during 5 min before I do it for longer...? For how long do you suggest to do the practice? 😊

 

 

 

Still easily lost in thoughts during the day but not as extreme as before I started the concentration.

Feels very difficult to be productive because of the emotions/thoughts. I feel very misunderstood (unworthiness/guilt?) by others about this because really it doesn't seem like anybody understands this experience of aversion that makes me so unproductive.

I just feel like I'm sitting in a rollercoaster all the time.

There's a lot of fear and worry  about a lot that just feels so raw. I feel worry about it coming up.

I have not been getting the support I want either so I very much feel that I'm on my own in this and I've become so used to it. It probably just makes it worse.

I feel very resistant towards the support that is easy to get for different reasons. Most times it feels like I don't even believe what the professionals say because they all just have the same education and are trained to say the same thing.

I just want to feel supported by friends and family around me. Real human connection and not some shallow temporary therapist.

Edited by noomii
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1 hour ago, noomii said:

 

So I started the practice when you suggested it.

I didn't do the candle as it hurts a bit, I'm light sensitive. But I've been experimenting with different visual objects and that works with me.

I do 5 min of it and then I just do breath awareness 30 min. Then later I noticed it might be good to do it one more time 5 min during the day.

I notice a slight difference in me during the day.

Awesome! 

 

1 hour ago, noomii said:

Focusing on the breath still feels difficult. What I do during that time is just to try bringing back my attention to where I feel the breath in my belly, whenever I notice the mind wandering away. Seems difficult to me to focus clearly on the actual sensations even though I try to and I'm pretty tense in the body the whole time.

I might just need more concentration.

Concentration isn’t like bodybuilding where muscles respond to resistance by expansion. Concentration expands via relaxation. Technically concentration is unobscured by relaxation. The practices are very much working. Never force a practice. If thoughts or emotions arise which are too difficult to comfortably continue the practice, break from the practice and express what is arising. That is the practice working. 

 

Focusing on sensations isn’t just difficult, it’s impossible. Feel inward and directly feel that there are no borders, edges, beginnings or endings whatsoever in sensation. No form is found in sensation, and no duality applies, and therein there is no plurality. 

 

Form is a vibrational appearance of consciousness concentrating itself to appear as form. You’re not the form. You’re the consciousness. So from the perspective of form, it’s not possible to concentrate as it’s already being done for you. You can really relax on that one. Technically there isn’t such a thing as a ‘perspective of form’. 

 

1 hour ago, noomii said:

@Phil Should I be able to concentrate flawlessly during 5 min before I do it for longer...? For how long do you suggest to do the practice? 😊

Still easily lost in thoughts during the day but not as extreme as before I started the concentration.

There really isn’t a segment of time you should be able to do. Do the practice(s) for as long as you like. My two cents would be to consider increasing it each day or every few days by small increments. Maybe one or two minutes. If that feels uncomfortable, increase by less. If there is momentum in relaxation & comfort, consider increasing by more. 

 

1 hour ago, noomii said:

Feels very difficult to be productive because of the emotions/thoughts. I feel very misunderstood (unworthiness/guilt?) by others about this because really it doesn't seem like anybody understands this experience of aversion that makes me so unproductive.

Expecting others to understand is the aversion. You are already and always completely understood by Source / God. Wether you relax and allow that to be felt is the variable. Look to communion for what you’ve been seeking in relationship. The simplest can-do-right-now “practice” for of communion is relaxing, and typing a question. You will see the answer will arise. It’s nothing ‘big’, special, unique or different. Just type what arising as keep going for as long as you like. God ain’t goin anywhere. 

 

1 hour ago, noomii said:

I just feel like I'm sitting in a rollercoaster all the time.

There's a lot of fear and worry  about a lot that just feels so raw. I feel worry about it coming up.

It has already come up. It’s already felt. It’s hanging on to it that really burns. Express it. Let it into the light, into plain sight. In doing so it’s seen to have no power / was just some thoughts. (Easy to say in hindsight of expressing it). 

 

1 hour ago, noomii said:

I have not been getting the support I want either so I very much feel that I'm on my own in this and I've become so used to it. It probably just makes it worse.

I feel very resistant towards the support that is easy to get for different reasons. Most times it feels like I don't even believe what the professionals say because they all just have the same education and are trained to say the same thing.

I just want to feel supported by friends and family around me. Real human connection and not some shallow temporary therapist.

I have one friend that I feel safe sharing truth with, she's very good at holding space. But I feel resistant towards being with her right now, I don't really understand why. I seem to be drawn to another direction without her.

I have my sister but she has 3 full-time jobs (work, studies & 2 children). She clearly don't have the space right now. She seem to often over-extend herself. 

If you want to feel real connection, be supportive & understanding to friends & family around you. 

I hear you on therapists. Having married one I know many from many different sectors as they are now friends who were coworkers at different agencies she worked at. And I get what you’re saying, as every one of them are quite submerged in & limited to the materialist’s paradigm and thus can not offer help outside of that scope. 

 

It might just be possible though that the help that’s available to you is the appropriate help for you. Might not be the case too, only you can deduce that. But if that is the case, get the help you need. Don’t believe the help you need is unavailable, continue to seek it out. 

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On 9/11/2022 at 11:16 PM, Phil said:

Concentration isn’t like bodybuilding where muscles respond to resistance by expansion. Concentration expands via relaxation. Technically concentration is unobscured by relaxation. The practices are very much working. Never force a practice. If thoughts or emotions arise which are too difficult to comfortably continue the practice, break from the practice and express what is arising. That is the practice working. 

 

I was more gentle & relaxed this morning. It felt more like resting & not so much tension.

I was not as focused as I expected myself to be. Maybe the tension I've experienced when meditating is because I've tried to control the experience.

 

On 9/11/2022 at 11:16 PM, Phil said:

Expecting others to understand is the aversion. You are already and always completely understood by Source / God. Wether you relax and allow that to be felt is the variable. Look to communion for what you’ve been seeking in relationship. The simplest can-do-right-now “practice” for of communion is relaxing, and typing a question. You will see the answer will arise. It’s nothing ‘big’, special, unique or different. Just type what arising as keep going for as long as you like. God ain’t goin anywhere. 

 

Yes I've thought about that the only way is to let go of wanting to be understood, yet I've kept thinking about it, probably because it feels satisfying for a separate self to be misunderstood & a victim lol.

 

On 9/11/2022 at 9:42 PM, noomii said:

Most times it feels like I don't even believe what the professionals say because they all just have the same education and are trained to say the same thing.

 

Sorry I could've said this in a different way, all are not the same lol. I just thought about how the help available & free/cheap in my experience have felt limited & simply not enough.

But sometimes it feels good to just have a therapist or anyone that can listen & sometimes that is enough.

 

On 9/11/2022 at 11:16 PM, Phil said:

 

If you want to feel real connection, be supportive & understanding to friends & family around you. 

 

Do you mean connection = love?

It doesn't feel so easy to be supportive and understanding of people who are close to me when I don't feel good. I'm mostly focused on taking care of myself first & to not take out what I feel on others. In a sense that's me being supportive.

 

On 9/11/2022 at 11:16 PM, Phil said:

I hear you on therapists. Having married one I know many from many different sectors as they are now friends who were coworkers at different agencies she worked at. And I get what you’re saying, as every one of them are quite submerged in & limited to the materialist’s paradigm and thus can not offer help outside of that scope. 

 

It might just be possible though that the help that’s available to you is the appropriate help for you. Might not be the case too, only you can deduce that. But if that is the case, get the help you need. Don’t believe the help you need is unavailable, continue to seek it out. 

 

That's why it's amazing that there's people like you Phil, giving sessions. 😊

And yes the help available (outside of your sessions) are what's appropriate for me. They might not be able to help with getting to the root of problems but it might be just enough in the heat of the moment.

Edited by noomii
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3 hours ago, noomii said:

I was more gentle & relaxed this morning. It felt more like resting & not so much tension.

I was not as focused as I expected myself to be. Maybe the tension I've experienced when meditating is because I've tried to control the experience.

Maybe the tension is that it feels off to add a myself to experience, when a myself isn’t actually found in experience…? 

“I was not as focused as I expected myself to be” is the same as saying “I was not as focused as I expected the unicorn to be”. There is the thought of a unicorn, built there isn’t actually a unicorn, so expectations upon a unicorn are only expectations, and aren’t actually upon anything or anyone. The holding of is the tension. 

 

3 hours ago, noomii said:

Yes I've thought about that the only way is to let go of wanting to be understood, yet I've kept thinking about it, probably because it feels satisfying for a separate self to be misunderstood & a victim lol.

It feels relieving & satisfying to let go of all unicorn based perspectives. 🙂

 

3 hours ago, noomii said:

Sorry I could've said this in a different way, all are not the same lol. I just thought about how the help available & free/cheap in my experience have felt limited & simply not enough.

But sometimes it feels good to just have a therapist or anyone that can listen & sometimes that is enough.

Yes, indeed.

Connection = love in the sense what actually feels good is the expression and subsequent emptying or relinquishing of perspectives & beliefs which are rooted in ignore-ance & misunderstanding (separation).

3 hours ago, noomii said:

That's why it's amazing that there's people like you Phil, giving sessions. 😊

And yes the help available (outside of your sessions) are what's appropriate for me. They might not be able to help with getting to the root of problems but it might be just enough in the heat of the moment.

Thank you, and also… We can hold space, ask certain questions which help dots connect, and even experience transmission… but be careful not to go so far  as to accredit the goodness inherent in feeling as coming from another. That’s what all the therapy, expression, dot connecting and transmission is about! 🤍

 

 

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