Is chivalry dead?

[Faith]

From the mass amount of threads and posts on this forum from men wanting to meet and use women for sex it seems chivalry is dead! 

 

What happened to men being deceit and asking a women out on a date? Buy them a meal or go to a movie? Do a little work in courting them? Sure there will be the occasional women that'll "put out" without being treated deceit, but unless all they want is sex they will live and learn. Being used for sex doesn't feel good I'm sure.

Seems more and more men want women to come to their bedroom for their first date, offer them water and expect sex... or their disappointed. Wtf? 

 

I find this very disturbing. These threads feel more and more like younger men are now predators that women should beware of, some even are so desperate for sex it is worrisome that they may one day just "take" what they want and actually, some men do this. Scary!

 

Well, the women that want a man that treats them well. Will demand it and if you don't, you won't have a chance, unless they haven't learned this is something they can actually get in life.

 

If all you want is sex, then I'd make sure the women knows this is the intention, some may be okay with this, but otherwise you are just using them in my opinion. 

 

 

[Eothasian]

Young women nowadays are aware of this. 

They aren't far away from being like it themselves. 

 

Depends on what you mean by young.

But the online dating sites work well for a reason.

 

I don't think many men will raise their behavior like that as long as they don't see women asking for better.

 

 

[DMT Elf]

When I started university, all the men had to take a short mandatory online course about respecting women. All the stuff we covered was basically what you might imagine would be common sense. It was stuff like 'don’t expect sex', 'don’t push for sex if she’s clearly not interested', etc... stuff like that. It is apparently necessary to teach that stuff since sexual assault and sexual harassment are such big problems on collage campuses. The statistics on this are actually rather alarming. Personally speaking, I can’t say that I’ve ever been close to a woman without hearing stories about some form of sexual violence. There’s a saying people throw around that goes something like, 'if you don’t know a woman who’s been raped, it just means she doesn’t trust you enough to tell you'. I don’t doubt that this saying is accurate. And no, I can’t understand what that’s like. I’m bisexual and I have had sex with men, but I obviously don’t know what it’s like to live as a woman. What’s more is that we live in a culture where this form of violence is often dismissed and, in some cases, even celebrated. Trump got elected after bragging about his own sexual assault, and Brett Kavanaugh was confirmed after being accused of rape. This all of course muddies the water as to understanding what peoples perceptions regarding sexual violence actually are, and how seriously anybody takes it. Like, if the president assaults women, what does that tell young people about what’s OK and not OK? And this doesn’t really seem to be a mainstream topic of discussion either. People aren’t really calling it out for what it is. Add to that the fact that many young men are getting dating advice from online pickup artists teaching blatantly predatory techniques and sexist ideology… and, Well, yeah… What we have now seems to be the result. Respecting women is seen as overrated because the value in doing so isn’t readily apparent to those who only want to get laid. And society promotes a kind of shamelessness about that.

 

Yes, these are major problems, but I really don’t think the younger generations are the ones to blame. When I look at older generations, I see even less respect. Older men seem to me to be far more sexist than we are, but it takes a different form. Their lack of respect is mostly masked by what they refer to as “traditional values”. I might argue that chivalry is basically the same as this. It’s a phony form of respect. It’s a show of respect without any indication of the real thing. They don’t care about understanding women or forming genuine connections with women, they care about jumping through the right hoops and playing the right character. That’s all. Chivalry being dead is only the end of these culturally enforced hoops outlining “correct behavior”. It’s not really a moral decline, it’s more of an expansion of human authenticity. People are just starting to show their true colors more and more instead of being bound by previously agreed upon values and rules for social conduct. And ultimately, while acknowledging the many problematic elements here, I might argue that this is a steppingstone on the road to something better. The light at the end of the tunnel is the point where people begin to realize that what matters is genuinely understanding people and forming genuine connections with people. Respecting women really isn’t any different from that. It’s just being able to understand who somebody is while accepting and embracing them for that. And this can never be accomplished as long as people are trying to put on a show of fake chivalry as a means to an end. Chivalry isn’t and never has been genuine respect. It was always a more elaborate form of the same manipulation we commonly refer to as toxic. My grandpa may have been chivalrous, but his underlying mentality was always “I just want to get laid” even if he put on an elaborate show of pretending to respect women. It was obvious to me that he didn’t respect women at all. So, how much does the show of chivalry really even matter? It’s just a show after all and not genuine respect.

 

The point is that genuine authentic respect is much better than any outward display somebody can put forward. But how do we get to a place where people sincerely value this "genuine authentic respect"? That’s the real big and important question, not “is chivalry dead”. We need people to care about each other, and not try to manipulate each other for their own selfish end of sex or whatever else it be. Essentially society needs to progress. Perhaps LSD in the drinking water would be a good place to start... I’m only spit balling here and if somebody wants to offer a better solution, I’m all ears. My strong proposition would be LSD in the drinking water.

 

It’s nearly 3 in the morning and I can’t sleep, so I decided to ramble over my keyboard. Hopefully what I’ve said makes some sense, but if not, no worries. All this shit just sorta came to me. It could be little more than the complete nonsense of a tired armchair philosopher. Really, I just enjoy trying to make sense of a world far to complex for me to understand. Let’s all just love each other and call it good. And all the other hippie bullshit and so on and so forth. Goodnight, everyone. I’m going to bed now.

[Orb]

Trust the intelligence we all have. We're not monsters who're scary lol. 

 

The greatest influences in my life were the people who never told me what to do, but they lead by action/example and I absorbed as much of it as possible. 

 

The solution isn't people saying treat women better, but to simply feel good and listen to source, and then others will see you and absorb it as well AS LONG as you don't talk about it, or make it some big thing.

 

The less you impose, the less resistance others have to absorbing your vibe, that's the best way I could word It. 

Edited August 14, 2022 by Orb

[Mandy]

I think that the "no child left behind act" meant kids had to be up to par only in academics, but then kids aren't given enough time for socialization in schools and those who it doesn't come naturally to (more often boys) are not assisted in learning social skills early on, therefore they may not highly value relationships or know how to begin to build them, so we are partly seeing the effects of this. Just a theory. 

[Eothasian]

19 minutes ago, Mandy said:

I think that the "no child left behind act" meant kids had to be up to par only in academics

Infuriating, since that would actually be a hinderence to academics.

 

I don't know if people need to learn socializing more than relating to.

Edited August 14, 2022 by Eothasian

[Mandy]

1 minute ago, Eothasian said:

Infuriating, since that would actually be a hinderence to academics.

 

I don't know if people need to learn socializing more than empathing.

Yes, I agree, empathy or emotional intelligence, etc, I'm seeing it being brought into schools much more now though. We aren't giving kids enough freedom to play and socialize, and foster their own interests IMO. But that's sorta of a whole nother subject. 

[Eothasian]

54 minutes ago, Mandy said:

 We aren't giving kids enough freedom to play and socialize, and foster their own interests IMO. But that's sorta of a whole nother subject. 

Not just in your O

[Phil]

As far as I can deduce, the mindset referred to in this thread which is commonly seen on this forum in the Friendship, Dating, Relationships & Sexuality section initially seems to pan out conceptually, yet socially or un-isolated, doesn’t pan out in practice. As far as I can tell, it does not originate from nor is indicative of this forum, in so far as the staff involved in this forum, nor of any of the content (comments on this forum, websites, videos, etc) of the staff of this forum, myself included. This mindset seems to be a uniquely traceable spillover which derives from a much deeper misunderstanding than just that of the symptomatic topical matters it arises as on this forum sub-section. 

 

It seems some members, though of course welcomed, are arriving here essentially quite innocently confused and are expressing the fallout & shortcomings this mindset has manifested as in their lives, relationships ongoings and dating endeavors, in an effort to heal from the psychological mis-leadership, damage & discord of this mindset, most often unbeknownst to the very listeners or followers of this information, resulting in seeking help dispelling & emptying of this, and therein realizing clarity and re-alignment from this. 

 

The mindset seems to originate from a targeted marketing of immature teachings which are essentially a self serving aggrandizing of the ego or separate self, via an unchecked & unregulated misappropriation & purporting of the nondual message as solipsistic panpsychism, or, the ignorance that objects are conscious, yet you are the only conscious object. This seems to create a confused message of humans as objects have varying degrees & levels of consciousness, combined with a portrayal that this mindset is indicative of higher-than-you (the listener) ‘separate-self-wisdom’, or more accurately, a purporting that the mindset & advice therein is coming from the highest of the highest of conscious humans to ever have existed. This mindset also seems to arise from a psychedelic induced spiritual ego, combined with aversion and an absence of inspection of thoughts in regard to the separate self referential beliefs. 

 

When delivered with a facade of substance through well practiced confidence, conviction & a false but highly convincing impression of sured-ness & authority, this message seems to have it’s greatest effect on youth in an unseen, unchecked, unnoticed manor, to the tune of the attempting to implement the underlying objectification of people inherent in panpsychism with a conviction in understanding what ‘being or becoming a man’ means, most unfortunately resulting in the objectification of women, via seeking happiness from a solipsistic objectifying panpsychist & deeply discordant and confused lens.

 

 

 

[Alexander]

Who has tolerance for women's petty games anymore.If I can't have sex on first date (it happened many times before) I'll go and search another .Who wants to waste time .Women are the same .

[Faith]

So, I wasn't blaming this forum for these type of threads, so much as maybe saying that they really just are not appropriate, imo, on a spiritual form that has men AND women on it.  I personally don't want to read that crap. It was unfortunately acceptable on Actualized.org and so here we are again. 🙄

 

Anyways, I know a few women that were date raped, one with the date rape drug. She woke up in the middle of the act. 

 

So, no, I don't want to give you advice on this forum how you can just go fuck someone because you have low self esteem and want nothing but sex with complete disregard for the women you're objectifying...

 

As I said before though if all you want is sex and find another adult that only wants this too, then fantastic, but more often then not, we are talking about manipulating a woman that thinks she's going on some sorta "date" into having sex instead. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Eothasian]

51 minutes ago, Faith said:

we are talking about manipulating a woman that thinks she's going on some sorta "date" into having sex instead.

What do you mean, like a false bait for a sex tape shoot?

Edited August 14, 2022 by Eothasian

[Faith]

12 minutes ago, Eothasian said:

What do you mean, like a false bait for a sex tape shoot?

No. Just what I said. She thinks they will have a date (talk and get to know each other, maybe kiss a bit)  and instead he's all over her trying to get her pants off! 

[Eothasian]

5 minutes ago, Faith said:

No. Just what I said. She thinks they will have a date (talk and get to know each other, maybe kiss a bit)  and instead he's all over her trying to get her pants off! 

Disappointing indeed. But she can walk away.

It's fairly easy to spot this intention, but I guess hard to resist for some.

Edited August 14, 2022 by Eothasian

[Faith]

15 minutes ago, Eothasian said:

But she can walk away.

Some men make this difficult. I won't get into "how" difficult, but use your imagination. Some don't recognize also that "no" means "no". 

[Alexander]

@Faith I think you are overreacting.

[Orb]

The answer to every problem is listening to source! Promise I'm not a dogmatic guy but this is the case! 

 

Can't you feel how shitty it feels to either oppose or heavily support something, just do you! 🤷‍♂️

[Alexander]

@Orb You have your shit handle. Your own addictions.

Level of threads is exactly the same as on actualized guess what,because same users are here.

[Eothasian]

4 minutes ago, Faith said:

Some men make this difficult. I won't get into "how" difficult, but use your imagination. Some don't recognize also that "no" means "no". 

I suppose so, yes.

It happened to a girl I was close with.

 

But anyway, what I wanted to say is, in my perception of a lot of women on dating sites and  irl they seem to be on a similar plane as the men.

Just as a generalization. Not that I encourage this behavior.

[Alexander]

@Phil What you teach is solipsism too.