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A Spiritual Dilemma


Orb
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I was chatting with a spiritual friend known as Anna Brown the other day. 

 

The chat was great, I shared somethings on my path and there was a lot of resonance when it came to the descriptions of the unveilings/glimpses.

 

The one thing that broke me was when she mentioned that after the shift/enlightenment/unveiling all desire vanished (disclaimer: I'm the one calling it a shift/enlightenment, she said many times that nothing happens).

 

I began to notice defensiveness arise as I held LoA as a subtle belief system and expressed it. She told me that LoA promotes the idea of free will and that it secretly serves the ego. 

 

I was always under the impression that desire is inherent in all beings and held that view. That view shattered to pieces when she told me that in her experience that simply wasn't the case. After her enlightenment (I'm the one calling it that!) There are no desires for anything. Like there's an inner rest that's left and there's no need to create anything or do anything. She also said there's no creator/creation. 

 

I did express that my view of LoA isn't the mainstream view so maybe she assumed it was the mainstream view. But she is well aware of abraham hicks. 

 

I'm bringing this up to challenge the views on LoA here. 

 

I'm not butthurt, I simply allowed my views of LoA to crumble to pieces and moved on, I'm feeling okay right now, I just wanna live my life. 

 

I think manifestation is what we are, and as such there's no need to talk about it, or constantly reaffirm our belief in it by watching abraham hicks all the time, just seems culty/religious to me. 

 

I personally have experienced what manifestation points to, but to talk about it is unnecessary.

Edited by Orb

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Ahh yes. The good ol' projecting-authority-onto-the-guru-trap. Now you've just exchanged one belief for another. 

"After enlightenment", no more desire? Why not? And what is this "after enlightenment" as opposed to whatever comes "before enlightenment"? 

What is desire? What is love?

What are desire, selfishness, selflessness and love? What if I love ice cream? What if I love my mother? What if I desire to do good out of love? 

Just trying to poke you a little❤️

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Posted (edited)

@Indisguise I havent accepted any guru, nor switched one for the other. Just playing around with perspectives, if someone tells me LoA is bullshit and defensiveness arises, I think its good to inspect that defensiveness. 

 

9 minutes ago, Indisguise said:

Ahh yes. The good ol' projecting-authority-onto-the-guru-trap. Now you've just exchanged one belief for another. 

"After enlightenment", no more desire? Why not? And what is this "after enlightenment" as opposed to whatever comes "before enlightenment"? 

I cant answer that as I have no direct experience, Anna was adamant on the fact that enlightenment never happens, nor is anyone enlightened. She only told me that the movement of desire is gone from her experience, I only mentioned enlightenment just to point to something idk. 

 

I have direct experience of someone looking me in the eye and telling me that all the desire/going for what you want stuff is not actual in her experience. I want to inspect that rather than hold on to my own views on things. I dont think LoA isnt real, I think all concepts about LoA arent true though. 

Edited by Orb

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6 hours ago, Orb said:

She told me that LoA promotes the idea of free will and that it secretly serves the ego. 

 

1 hour ago, Orb said:

I dont think LoA isnt real, I think all concepts about LoA arent true though. 

And all concepts about the ego...? 

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@Orb So what's our dilemma? 

di·lem·ma

a situation in which a difficult choice has to be made between two or more alternatives, especially equally undesirable ones."

 

We have a dilemma now because there's no free choice! Really Orb, really? 

 

Lately I've been falling asleep and sort of waking up in this disturbed haze that there ISN'T A ME. Like.... holy f there isn't a me! I once had this insight, like an insight of all insights that there wasn't a me. But now I think it turned into a belief and this sleep haze was showing me, that I was still interpreting that as some kinda loss. You can discredit anything, but it never takes anything real away. 

 

“Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.” -Course in Miracles

 

 

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1 hour ago, Mandy said:

@Orb So what's our dilemma? 

@Mandy I used the word in the wrong way. Really its just the confusion between those who say desire is divine essentially, and those who claim desire is egotistic and that they have 0 desires, im talking like 0 interest in getting things, the word "want" never comes up for them. 

 

1 hour ago, Mandy said:

We have a dilemma now because there's no free choice! Really Orb, really? 

Sorry I dont fully understand this, mind elaborating?  🙂 

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@Orb When you're thinking of people who "have" desires to "have" things/whatever then "things" can get confusing. Go back to the foundation of the assumption. Other people, separate people, teachers that can be credited or discredited. There is no possession. No one who can possess. Truth, desire or any of it. Just you, right now. Feeling guidance is all you got. 

 

43 minutes ago, Orb said:

Sorry I dont fully understand this, mind elaborating?  🙂 

You said that LOA promotes a belief in free choice, so I was pointing out the the suffering associated with the belief in choice is known to the dictionary as a dilemma. Again feeling is all you "got" haven't even "got" that, thank God. 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Mandy said:

@OrbFeeling guidance is all you got. 

 

@Mandy I get what youre saying. Id like to add that in direct experience theres no one who has anything. We can say there is feeling and guidance is a good pointer that arouses hope, but there is nothing being guided anywhere, guided implies someone/thing going somewhere. Just being nit-picky with this non duality stuff 🙂 .

 

2 hours ago, Mandy said:

You said that LOA promotes a belief in free choice, so I was pointing out the the suffering associated with the belief in choice is known to the dictionary as a dilemma. Again feeling is all you "got" haven't even "got" that, thank God. 

 

 

 

 Great pointer, seemingly simple yet filled with profundity, which is also simple.

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@Orb My .02 is that it's fine. I don't believe in LoA either. LoA isn't mandatory for awakening.I think some Neti-Neti (not this, not this) practice is useful on the path. You've found LoA is "Not This". This is good. That's fine. I had a bit of wariness that you might be trusting the guru Anna a bit too much here -- 

 

Anna has her awakening and a framework for it. Does it fit for you? I don't know. She says awakening is freedom from desire -- but does it work that way for everyone? And the word desire is ill defined. Is Anna saying she doesn't have any desires, wishes, preferences, or wants? How does she go to the bathroom when she feels pressure in the bowels? Does she then have a desire to make it to the bathroom or does she poop whereever, you know the whole New Age Nondualist thing "Poop just happens. There is no pooper." 

 

But for you, @Orb, the big question is what is your Path? What are you doing to wake up? What is your practice? The Buddha said there are 68K dharma doors. I have a feeling, and I could be wrong here, is that you're drifting. 

Edited by Aware Wolf

“If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.” ― The Buddha

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I think it is worthwhile to try to look the world in a pretty normal fashion. I am glad that you have found other people who are enlightened or w.e who are less wierd than us.
 

@Orbhave you noticed the desire for holding your ground and what do you think about it?  

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@Aware Wolf Honestly and hope this doesnt sound dismissive, theres no concern for Annas frame work, I really dont know what it is. 

 

1 hour ago, Aware Wolf said:

But for you, @Orb, the big question is what is your Path? What are you doing to wake up? What is your practice? The Buddha said there are 68K dharma doors. I have a feeling, and I could be wrong here, is that you're drifting. 

No idea 😶.

40 minutes ago, nurthur11 said:

@Orbhave you noticed the desire for holding your ground and what do you think about it?  

 

Nope not really honestly 🙂 .

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