The emotional scale might actually work...

[howisitsoactivehere]

I was listening to part 2 and part 3 of Phil's how you create your reality videos and being aware of my thoughts and how they made me feel and I tell you what, it correlated basically every time.

 

I'm shocked, it can't be this simple surely. So that statement was doubt and it made me feel slightly bad. It's like you can go meta on every thought sensation and be like "where is that on the scale?" then express it and let it go, then focus on feeling and breathing and contentedness. Am I doing it right?

[DMT Elf]

The problem I see potentially arising from this is that one might use it to delude themself.

Like, if our only reference for judging the truthfulness of a thought is how it feels, then you could act in all sorts of unhealthy and destructive ways simply because it feels good.

And then you could suppress your conscience by saying to yourself, "well, I don't like the way that feels".

Edited April 26, 2022 by DMT Elf

[Orb]

@DMT Elf 

 

For all the people who've done destructive things, did they really focus on good feeling thoughts?

 

Curious to break this stuff down, what are some examples of this that you've seen and we can break them down.

[DMT Elf]

1 hour ago, Orb said:

For all the people who've done destructive things, did they really focus on good feeling thoughts?

 

I think almost everything we do has both good and bad feelings attached to it. So that's a tricky question to answer. I think in many cases, we do destructive things because they feel good at the time, and they are used as an escape from deeper underlying negative feeling.

 

1 hour ago, Orb said:

Curious to break this stuff down, what are some examples of this that you've seen and we can break them down.

 

Sure, here's what I came up with.

 

Let's say somebody is abusing drugs. The drugs give that person temporary relief from other issues in their life which they are unable or unwilling to deal with directly. At the time, it feels much better to use a drug than to do the difficult work necessary to fix the other issues. A good feeling thought to this person might be "I should get high".

 

Now let's say the same person continues down this path long enough to become addicted to the drug. The addiction reaches a point where it's negativity impacting friends and family. To this person, admitting that they have a problem and humbling themself enough to try and fix it probably feels awful. It likely feels much better to avoid responsibility by suppressing their conscience, and projecting blame. Thoughts like "I don't have a problem, you have a problem" and "I have control over it" likely feel better than those that take responsibility.

Edited April 26, 2022 by DMT Elf
Spelling

[Orb]

@DMT Elf I'm actually dealing with the scenario you brought up lol. 

 

I'd say the using of drugs actually comes from discordant thoughts related to trauma, childhood, etc. 

 

It actually feels good to live cleaner and strive towards that. I've been in a habit of hurting myself with discord, then using substances to experience relief from that discord, its...addicting 😶.

 

Consider this, I got discordant thinking and drugs definitely feel better, but living cleaner feels way better than feeling better using drugs. 

 

Just because drugs do feel better than the discord I'm feeling does not mean that there isn't an alternative that's even better. 

 

The ego is a twisted/perverted masochist, it hurts itself, then uses petty sensual experiences to feel better.... this causes so much confusion in the world, so much that I myself can't convey the deception going on you just have to see it. 

 

Drugs don't actually feel good when it is done from a place of discordant thinking because while it can relieve you for a bit, eventually you will come down and the discordant thoughts will be felt once again.

[Faith]

@howisitsoactivehere Just popping in here to say, "Welcome to the forum".

 

Nice name! 😂

[Blessed2]

9 hours ago, DMT Elf said:

Like, if our only reference for judging the truthfulness of a thought is how it feels

 

How do you judge truthfulness of a thought?

[DMT Elf]

25 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

 

How do you judge truthfulness of a thought?

 

Me personally? Well, if I'm honest, I'm pretty bad at this. lol. I engage in a lot of self deception and ego games. 

Don't get me wrong, I think feeling/"inner guidance" is probably the most important factor. We can feel deep down when we're playing games with ourselves, it feels kinda dirty. I just think feeling isn't the only piece of the puzzle. I think it's necessary to develop an awareness and understanding of the specific games the ego engages in such that we can catch it before it starts getting the better of us with its ego BS. Inner guidance alone isn't enough to do that imo. Ego games are too complicated and tricky and they require meta awareness of how they work in order to outsmart. 

I like to think of it as trying to outsmart my own mind.

 

But feel free to point out if you think I'm missing something.

Edited April 27, 2022 by DMT Elf

[Blessed2]

2 minutes ago, DMT Elf said:

Well, if I'm honest, I'm pretty bad at this. lol. I engage in a lot of self deception and ego games. 

 

How do you know this thought is true?

 

How does it feel?

 

Where is this ego / self deception in direct experience?

[DMT Elf]

2 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

How do you know this thought is true?

 

Because I'll realize after the fact that I was playing an ego game. Like if I avoid some responsibility I have, or when I ignore and disregard other peoples perspectives in favor of my own so I can justify my selfishness. I know that I do these things because I've observed myself doing them.

 

12 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

How does it feel?

 

Do you mean how does the thought that I deceive myself feel? I think it feels honest when I'm able to recognize it in specific instances. Recognizing it doesn't always feel good, but it feels good when I can learn to live above it.

 

34 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

Where is this ego / self deception in direct experience?

 

Nonexistent. These things are purely conceptual. 

[DMT Elf]

@Orb

Thanks for sharing that. I wish you luck, and I know these things can be very challenging. 

A lot of what you said resonates well, particularly the part about how living clean is an even better alternative. Unfortunately, the ego doesn't always see better alternatives which is what I mean by self deception and how it helps to gain meta awareness of it.

[Phil]

13 hours ago, howisitsoactivehere said:

Am I doing it right?

Great to hear! I’d love to say yes… but it’s expression. You can’t get it wrong. It’s the how you’re feelin, the clarity & the creating that matters. 

 

12 hours ago, DMT Elf said:

The problem I see potentially arising from this is that one might use it to delude themself.

Like, if our only reference for judging the truthfulness of a thought is how it feels, then you could act in all sorts of unhealthy and destructive ways simply because it feels good.

And then you could suppress your conscience by saying to yourself, "well, I don't like the way that feels".

Thoughts arise; problem & solution, one and themself, judging truthfulness (right or wrong, good or bad, true or false), unhealthy & healthy, you and your conscience, you saying to yourself, I and feeling.

Which thought is true?

Truth is appearing as “thoughts”. 

 

The emotional scale is a step away from the duality(s) implied by thought, and the illusion of efforts to find truth in duality, or to ‘hold’ thought(s) to be ‘true’ or ‘not true’… and is instead a step toward feeling. Like wifi being a phone, forgetting it’s actually wifi, and believing ones and zeros to the tune that there is the belief in a “phone” and a phone’s wifi. 

 

Similarly, for one to delude themself, there must be a one and a themself - that there is a one & a themself is the delusion. There is wifi and the computations, some of which seem to be “of oneself”. Or, thought attachment… believing (self referential) thoughts about oneself, while oneself is awareness of & being the “thoughts”. One appearing as if “two”. Consider, without thought(s)… could delusion exist / be experienced and or referenced? 

 

Delusion: A false fixed belief that is not amenable to change in light of conflicting evidence. 

The ‘conflicting evidence’ in this regard is the (felt) discord. To remain deluded, so to speak, would require a rather complete denial of emotion, of the discord & alignment therein. This isn’t meant as “A Truth”, but as just yet another expression, of “some thoughts”, which are really, wifi. 

 

It could also be said, as direct experience dictates ‘thought(s)’ appears & disappears, the very appearing & disappearing, which is inexplicable magic, is the very ‘conflicting evidence’, in stark contrast to there being, a one & a themself. 

 

Admittedly a potentially extreme statement, and certainly not meant in any personal way… what if “I don’t like”… is already delusion?  What if the “that” of “I don’t like the way that feels”… is none other than, the “I”?  The implication would be, if there is a Truth, it’s magical & unconditional. Would that be too crazy or too sane? (And now we’re back at thoughts, so to speak). 

 

What if the better alternative ‘the ego see’s’, is that an ego seeing is a thought? What is Freud was attached to thoughts? What if ‘Freud’ is only he thought, ‘Freud’. I don’t know… too crazy maybe. 

 

 

Also… something I’ve noticed with the scale… often the most powerful aspect of using the scale… is what’s not on the scale.

[Forza21]

8 hours ago, Phil said:

Great to hear! I’d love to say yes… but it’s expression. You can’t get it wrong. It’s the how you’re feelin, the clarity & the creating that matters. 

 

Thoughts arise; problem & solution, one and themself, judging truthfulness (right or wrong, good or bad, true or false), unhealthy & healthy, you and your conscience, you saying to yourself, I and feeling.

Which thought is true?

Truth is appearing as “thoughts”. 

 

The emotional scale is a step away from the duality(s) implied by thought, and the illusion of efforts to find truth in duality, or to ‘hold’ thought(s) to be ‘true’ or ‘not true’… and is instead a step toward feeling. Like wifi being a phone, forgetting it’s actually wifi, and believing ones and zeros to the tune that there is the belief in a “phone” and a phone’s wifi. 

 

Similarly, for one to delude themself, there must be a one and a themself - that there is a one & a themself is the delusion. There is wifi and the computations, some of which seem to be “of oneself”. Or, thought attachment… believing (self referential) thoughts about oneself, while oneself is awareness of & being the “thoughts”. One appearing as if “two”. Consider, without thought(s)… could delusion exist / be experienced and or referenced? 

 

Delusion: A false fixed belief that is not amenable to change in light of conflicting evidence. 

The ‘conflicting evidence’ in this regard is the (felt) discord. To remain deluded, so to speak, would require a rather complete denial of emotion, of the discord & alignment therein. This isn’t meant as “A Truth”, but as just yet another expression, of “some thoughts”, which are really, wifi. 

 

It could also be said, as direct experience dictates ‘thought(s)’ appears & disappears, the very appearing & disappearing, which is inexplicable magic, is the very ‘conflicting evidence’, in stark contrast to there being, a one & a themself. 

 

Admittedly a potentially extreme statement, and certainly not meant in any personal way… what if “I don’t like”… is already delusion?  What if the “that” of “I don’t like the way that feels”… is none other than, the “I”?  The implication would be, if there is a Truth, it’s magical & unconditional. Would that be too crazy or too sane? (And now we’re back at thoughts, so to speak). 

 

What if the better alternative ‘the ego see’s’, is that an ego seeing is a thought? What is Freud was attached to thoughts? What if ‘Freud’ is only he thought, ‘Freud’. I don’t know… too crazy maybe. 

 

 

Also… something I’ve noticed with the scale… often the most powerful aspect of using the scale… is what’s not on the scale.

@howisitsoactivehere
how i see it in nutshell - we can always experience ONLY God. We can't experience anything else than infinite love.  Suffering/discord/separation is because it's necessary for us, to know, what flavor we don't like, just to give us context.  BUT It doesn't go in line with who we are in essence - because we are love, ones, and bliss.  So it's just simply an act of choosing who we really are, and what we want to feel. It's that simple, almost too simple to believe, 🙂 yeah that's the right word - believe in love/god/yourself.  🙂 

Edited April 27, 2022 by Forza21

[Phil]

 

Huge impossible mountains become small incremental possible steps.