Why do some people strongly reject love

[Kevin]

I’ve noticed there is sometimes a tendency to be grossed out or repulsed by love. For example I was talking to my therapist and she said she was proud of me and I was doing good. Internally I was disgusted. And then she said it might be a good idea for me to find one thing everyday to be proud about and to say to myself that I’m proud. 
 

That might be a good idea but when she suggested it I metaphorically almost threw up. Like what a disgusting idea.

 

I’ve noticed this sort of trend in myself and in others and it brings up a lot of questions. Isn’t positive affirmations and love good? What’s all this about. Love is good so how come praise is sometimes so uncomfortable? How come we sometimes push away love?

[Orb]

1 hour ago, Kevin said:

I’ve noticed there is sometimes a tendency to be grossed out or repulsed by love. For example I was talking to my therapist and she said she was proud of me and I was doing good. Internally I was disgusted. And then she said it might be a good idea for me to find one thing everyday to be proud about and to say to myself that I’m proud. 
 

That might be a good idea but when she suggested it I metaphorically almost threw up. Like what a disgusting idea.

 

I’ve noticed this sort of trend in myself and in others and it brings up a lot of questions. Isn’t positive affirmations and love good? What’s all this about. Love is good so how come praise is sometimes so uncomfortable? How come we sometimes push away love?

Ive felt this too. Maybe we are just learning to let the Love in and it feels unfamiliar at first. What if it becomes the new normal?

[Kevin]

5 hours ago, Orb said:

Ive felt this too. Maybe we are just learning to let the Love in and it feels unfamiliar at first. What if it becomes the new normal?

I’m not sure. Hopefully I’m learning to let it in. Idk though because I feel tremendous resistance to it at the moment.

 

 

[Mandy]

People don't really, it's just emotional guidance, outside of stories explaining it. 

 

This is hilarious  to look back on, but when I was in my early 20's the word "enjoy" triggered me so bad, I thought it was disgusting, similar to how some people hate the word "moist". I hated being told to enjoy something. My identity was wrapped up in how much I worked and saved. That there is a trigger is an important message that your emotional setpoint is somewhere scale wise near hatred/disgust on the subject. That there is a trigger is an indicator that there's something wanted that's really good buried beneath. 

 

We naturally don't like being instructed to do something nice for ourselves, unless we are already inclined to do it. That's why the emotional scale is a great tool, because rather than forcing yourself to take the action, you look at the emotions, and release and allow them instead. From hatred or anger doing something nice isn't aligned, from appreciation it very much is. 

 

If you do take the action without aligning emotions, in can still be helpful because you can see and curiously observe the resistance that arises, you can see what emotional guidance the subject evokes and use the feedback to align. Be patient with yourself. Awareness alone is enough.

 

 

 

 

[Phil]

Notions of conditional love rightfully feel gross, disgusting & repulsive to - unconditional love.

[Mandy]

2 hours ago, Phil said:

Notions of conditional love rightfully feel gross, disgusting & repulsive to - unconditional love.

No one likes Nickelback. 

[Phil]

3 hours ago, Mandy said:

No one likes Nickelback. 

Exactly. ♥️

 

 

@Kevin

There are deep seated beliefs based on experience which are the resistance. You are not separate and resisting or rejecting - the resistance felt & experienced is of the beliefs.

 

The emptying or releasing of the discordant beliefs and the underlying relief & clarity which follow is a naturally occurring process. While I totally agree with continuing therapy to explore this as it aids in the release & clarity, as well as any and all other introspective & releasing resources - there isn’t per se anything you need to do, nor change about yourself, nor is there anything whatsoever which you did or are doing ‘wrong’ which is causing this. The resistance felt & experienced is of beliefs. The beliefs are triggered by the experience of receiving praise, love & the truth that you are worthy & deserving, from other people.

 

Interpretations presently arise, about a past in which conditional love was experienced. Emotions are felt as guidance, in accordance with the presently arising interpretations. The guidance points out aspects of interpretations which are not quite aligned with unconditional love. 

 

The interpretations can be aligned with truth (feeling) presently-only. And, presently only, it may very well be advantageous, significant, worthwhile, illuminating & clarifying - to explore ‘the past’ as this is a means of alignment of presently appearing interpretations. Keep doing what you’re doing, and trust that it is working. Not in terms of ‘fixing you’ etc - in terms of alignment and unfettering you.  

 

 

Some introspective inquires that might also assist in allowing the emptying, the ‘up & out’ of the beliefs, discord, and any related stress, tension or suffering…

 

The interpretation(s) coming up and out are that of conditional love. These interpretations would be of love - and - as if intertwined with - manipulation, tit for tat / strings attached, push & pull mind games, acceptance & rejection, approval & disapproval. These past experiences, which are actually presently experienced interpretations, are being triggered. While it’s difficult to allow them to be fully felt - that is indeed what you want - as that is the releasing of, the discordant beliefs, and again, any stress, tension or suffering therein. 

 

 

The experiential paradox might be initially difficult to grasp, but as it is grasped, the overall perspective changes, and that makes all the difference. The recognition that this process is serving you and is actually what you want, is the great difference maker. That might be believing that it is, knowing that it is, having faith that it is, trusting that it is, or simply that it resonates that it is. There is no ‘wrong’ perspective here. Wherever you’re at so to speak in that regard, believing, knowing, faith, trusting, or deducing based on what resonates - is perfect. All of these point to and arise of the very same unconditional love. You truly can not get it wrong. As all of the discordant beliefs or interpretations are emptied, there is no more experiential paradox. What remains is reality as it truly is - unconditional love.  What was inspected & dispelled, were all the conditions. 

 

 

If experience is interpreted as on behalf of a sep self of thoughts, a potentially fruitful self-exploration is that of fear of vulnerability. The notion of opening up to love or accepting praise can feel like exposing yourself to potential hurt or judgement. The disgust or rejection might be a defensive protective mechanism in regard to potentially feeling vulnerable or exposed. 

 

The (possibly) perplexing aspect is - allowing the discord of beliefs to be felt & to empty is a non-doing. It’s perfectly natural. As normal and natural as gravity. What seems to complicate, is a world in ignorance offering self improvement, personal development, healing methods, etc, etc, etc. The truth is - the intention for what is discordant to be released is enough. If you will - Source does the rest. You simply don’t add or ‘get in the way’. You sit back, relax, breathe, remain present, and allow it. All doing is counter productive, as all doing is actually thinking as in solving, figuring out, etc, and obscures, and is the ‘getting in your own way’. 

 

By that I do not mean therapy or healing modalities are ‘doing’ and therefore should be let go or not ‘done’. The Source, and all clarity & healing - is within you, and arises into your experience, very literally through and as the body, bringing clarity to the mind. Some methods assist with this, such as the introspective nature of therapy, or modalities like Reiki, breath-worth, etc. Some “methods” are actually egocentric deceptive salesmanship & reinforce the sep self of thoughts, and therein the discord, stress, tension, and suffering as they’re based of what someone knows or understands. (Which are actually beliefs. Conditions which obscure, unconditional love).

 

 

It sounds like an internal conflict is experienced between wanting love, and yet, discomfort with receiving it. You might crave love, affection & affirmation, and yet experience an internal clash as thoughts arise about rejecting positive self-regard. These thoughts are based on, are part & parcel of, the sep self of thoughts, and unfortunately reflect the vast majority of “teachers, teachings, healing and offerings” in general. This seemingly adds layers of complication to an otherwise painstakingly simple process of allowing whatever’s felt to be fully felt, and therein released, and therein clarified & aligned. I’m mentioning this because per karma, that’s what’ll empty first, and then conditioning empties. Put another way, what you’ve heard is true but didn’t / doesn’t resonate will empty first, and then deeper identity based discordant beliefs (conditioning) will empty. 

 

 

The disgust or repulsion is not towards love ‘itself’ but towards the beliefs, namely, about identity, relationships and love. Specifically, conditional love. 

 

Positive, resonating praise & affirmations can feel threatening to the innocently yet mistakenly established identity (sep self of thoughts), prompting a visceral reaction & confusion. Being present and trusting in the process, it clarifies & resonates to be aware that what is let go & released is only what doesn’t resonate and isn’t wanted. Nothing whatsoever which resonates or is wanted is coming up and out or is released, as all that is good and resonates is of yourself. For example, self-criticism may seem to hang on in a habitual way, but by being aware that it doesn’t resonate and being aware of the intention to release it - it’s released. That which the beliefs didn’t resonate with, is all the more uncovered, and is very much what’s wanted. 

 

 

Self-realization (unconditional love) is fundamentally about connection and acceptance, but if the conditioning, the sep self, includes interpretations about a sep self & love, interpretations of judgment or fear, the natural response might be to push away or reject. But again, allowing whatever’s felt to be felt, and not adding concepts, theories, philosophies, etc, is ‘getting out of your own way’ - and this not actually doing anything, and just allowing the openness you truly are to process and transform all which does not resonate with you. 

 

The creation process, btw, is not separate of the allowing whatever’s felt process. “They” are literally one & the same. Whatever it is which is wanted, be it relationships, health, wealth, or specific things or experiences - manifests of you, as you, through you. This is comforting to be aware of if & when the emptying gets challenging. The process can be interpreted many ways, most of which are aversion from feeling, and obscuring of being present. Being aware this is the creative power of you underway however - that this is very literally what you’re wanting unfolding, manifesting, stands to bring alignment, peace and love to the entirety of experience. 

[Kevin]

15 hours ago, Mandy said:

People don't really, it's just emotional guidance, outside of stories explaining it. 

 

This is hilarious  to look back on, but when I was in my early 20's the word "enjoy" triggered me so bad, I thought it was disgusting, similar to how some people hate the word "moist". I hated being told to enjoy something. My identity was wrapped up in how much I worked and saved. That there is a trigger is an important message that your emotional setpoint is somewhere scale wise near hatred/disgust on the subject. That there is a trigger is an indicator that there's something wanted that's really good buried beneath. 

 

I guess just being aware eventually illuminates what’s buried? Fingers crossed lol.

 

15 hours ago, Mandy said:

We naturally don't like being instructed to do something nice for ourselves, unless we are already inclined to do it. That's why the emotional scale is a great tool, because rather than forcing yourself to take the action, you look at the emotions, and release and allow them instead. From hatred or anger doing something nice isn't aligned, from appreciation it very much is. 

 

If you do take the action without aligning emotions, in can still be helpful because you can see and curiously observe the resistance that arises, you can see what emotional guidance the subject evokes and use the feedback to align. Be patient with yourself. Awareness alone is enough.

 

 

 

 

I guess whenever the triggering happens it’s a blessing in disguise. I guess mainly I feel frustration because I wish I felt differently sometimes.

[Mandy]

8 hours ago, Kevin said:

I guess whenever the triggering happens it’s a blessing in disguise. I guess mainly I feel frustration because I wish I felt differently sometimes.

Have you ever noticed when you just want to feel better, and you're impatient to feel better, if you recognize the impatience and allow how you really feel, you already feel better? You can't really be patient with impatience and still be impatient. 

[Phil]

@Kevin

You might also consider, it fundementally feels off because it’s fundementally not true. 

[Kevin]

21 hours ago, Phil said:

Exactly. ♥️

 

 

@Kevin

There are deep seated beliefs based on experience which are the resistance. You are not separate and resisting or rejecting - the resistance felt & experienced is of the beliefs.

 

The emptying or releasing of the discordant beliefs and the underlying relief & clarity which follow is a naturally occurring process. While I totally agree with continuing therapy to explore this as it aids in the release & clarity, as well as any and all other introspective & releasing resources - there isn’t per se anything you need to do, nor change about yourself, nor is there anything whatsoever which you did or are doing ‘wrong’ which is causing this. The resistance felt & experienced is of beliefs. The beliefs are triggered by the experience of receiving praise, love & the truth that you are worthy & deserving, from other people.

 

Interpretations presently arise, about a past in which conditional love was experienced. Emotions are felt as guidance, in accordance with the presently arising interpretations. The guidance points out aspects of interpretations which are not quite aligned with unconditional love. 

 

The interpretations can be aligned with truth (feeling) presently-only. And, presently only, it may very well be advantageous, significant, worthwhile, illuminating & clarifying - to explore ‘the past’ as this is a means of alignment of presently appearing interpretations. Keep doing what you’re doing, and trust that it is working. Not in terms of ‘fixing you’ etc - in terms of alignment and unfettering you.  

 

Thanks that’s good to hear. Sometimes I get discouraged and it’s good to hear someone say that I’m on the right track and to keep going.

 

21 hours ago, Phil said:

 

Some introspective inquires that might also assist in allowing the emptying, the ‘up & out’ of the beliefs, discord, and any related stress, tension or suffering…

 

The interpretation(s) coming up and out are that of conditional love. These interpretations would be of love - and - as if intertwined with - manipulation, tit for tat / strings attached, push & pull mind games, acceptance & rejection, approval & disapproval. These past experiences, which are actually presently experienced interpretations, are being triggered. While it’s difficult to allow them to be fully felt - that is indeed what you want - as that is the releasing of, the discordant beliefs, and again, any stress, tension or suffering therein. 

 

Yeah I don’t know how to operate. I realize all those ways of operating weren’t working. And when I operate that way still I feel that it’s not resonating. I’m not seeing the right way yet. But maybe I am looking for some security there in knowing how I’m supposed to act in a future.

21 hours ago, Phil said:

 

The experiential paradox might be initially difficult to grasp, but as it is grasped, the overall perspective changes, and that makes all the difference. The recognition that this process is serving you and is actually what you want, is the great difference maker. That might be believing that it is, knowing that it is, having faith that it is, trusting that it is, or simply that it resonates that it is. There is no ‘wrong’ perspective here. Wherever you’re at so to speak in that regard, believing, knowing, faith, trusting, or deducing based on what resonates - is perfect. All of these point to and arise of the very same unconditional love. You truly can not get it wrong. As all of the discordant beliefs or interpretations are emptied, there is no more experiential paradox. What remains is reality as it truly is - unconditional love.  What was inspected & dispelled, were all the conditions. 

 

I have strong faith that this process is what I want and it’s good. Sometimes when really intense stuff comes up I can forget that though.

21 hours ago, Phil said:

 

If experience is interpreted as on behalf of a sep self of thoughts, a potentially fruitful self-exploration is that of fear of vulnerability. The notion of opening up to love or accepting praise can feel like exposing yourself to potential hurt or judgement. The disgust or rejection might be a defensive protective mechanism in regard to potentially feeling vulnerable or exposed. 

 

Yep 100%. And sometimes in the moment I’ll see that I’m avoiding vulnerability but idk how to stop. Maybe it’s just a process of noticing it more. I feel like an iceberg and it feels like I’m thawing really slowly.

21 hours ago, Phil said:

The (possibly) perplexing aspect is - allowing the discord of beliefs to be felt & to empty is a non-doing. It’s perfectly natural. As normal and natural as gravity. What seems to complicate, is a world in ignorance offering self improvement, personal development, healing methods, etc, etc, etc. The truth is - the intention for what is discordant to be released is enough. If you will - Source does the rest. You simply don’t add or ‘get in the way’. You sit back, relax, breathe, remain present, and allow it. All doing is counter productive, as all doing is actually thinking as in solving, figuring out, etc, and obscures, and is the ‘getting in your own way’. 

 

By that I do not mean therapy or healing modalities are ‘doing’ and therefore should be let go or not ‘done’. The Source, and all clarity & healing - is within you, and arises into your experience, very literally through and as the body, bringing clarity to the mind. Some methods assist with this, such as the introspective nature of therapy, or modalities like Reiki, breath-worth, etc. Some “methods” are actually egocentric deceptive salesmanship & reinforce the sep self of thoughts, and therein the discord, stress, tension, and suffering as they’re based of what someone knows or understands. (Which are actually beliefs. Conditions which obscure, unconditional love).

 

 

It sounds like an internal conflict is experienced between wanting love, and yet, discomfort with receiving it. You might crave love, affection & affirmation, and yet experience an internal clash as thoughts arise about rejecting positive self-regard. These thoughts are based on, are part & parcel of, the sep self of thoughts, and unfortunately reflect the vast majority of “teachers, teachings, healing and offerings” in general. This seemingly adds layers of complication to an otherwise painstakingly simple process of allowing whatever’s felt to be fully felt, and therein released, and therein clarified & aligned. I’m mentioning this because per karma, that’s what’ll empty first, and then conditioning empties. Put another way, what you’ve heard is true but didn’t / doesn’t resonate will empty first, and then deeper identity based discordant beliefs (conditioning) will empty. 

 

What does that last bit mean? What I’ve heard is true but doesn’t resonate will empty first?

21 hours ago, Phil said:

 

The disgust or repulsion is not towards love ‘itself’ but towards the beliefs, namely, about identity, relationships and love. Specifically, conditional love. 

 

Positive, resonating praise & affirmations can feel threatening to the innocently yet mistakenly established identity (sep self of thoughts), prompting a visceral reaction & confusion. Being present and trusting in the process, it clarifies & resonates to be aware that what is let go & released is only what doesn’t resonate and isn’t wanted. Nothing whatsoever which resonates or is wanted is coming up and out or is released, as all that is good and resonates is of yourself. For example, self-criticism may seem to hang on in a habitual way, but by being aware that it doesn’t resonate and being aware of the intention to release it - it’s released. That which the beliefs didn’t resonate with, is all the more uncovered, and is very much what’s wanted. 

 

 

Self-realization (unconditional love) is fundamentally about connection and acceptance, but if the conditioning, the sep self, includes interpretations about a sep self & love, interpretations of judgment or fear, the natural response might be to push away or reject. But again, allowing whatever’s felt to be felt, and not adding concepts, theories, philosophies, etc, is ‘getting out of your own way’ - and this not actually doing anything, and just allowing the openness you truly are to process and transform all which does not resonate with you. 

 

The creation process, btw, is not separate of the allowing whatever’s felt process. “They” are literally one & the same. Whatever it is which is wanted, be it relationships, health, wealth, or specific things or experiences - manifests of you, as you, through you. This is comforting to be aware of if & when the emptying gets challenging. The process can be interpreted many ways, most of which are aversion from feeling, and obscuring of being present. Being aware this is the creative power of you underway however - that this is very literally what you’re wanting unfolding, manifesting, stands to bring alignment, peace and love to the entirety of experience. 

Thanks man sometimes I need that reminder that I’m on the right track. 🙏 

[Phil]

3 hours ago, Kevin said:

Thanks that’s good to hear. Sometimes I get discouraged and it’s good to hear someone say that I’m on the right track and to keep going.

Awesome, yes you’re definitely on the right track. Even the subtle distinction of discouragement as a presently felt emotion clarifies & lightens the load. So to speak, it’s a step towards feeling, which is what’s wanted, most paramount and most significant… and a step away from the discord & suffering of abstraction. 

 

3 hours ago, Kevin said:

Yeah I don’t know how to operate. I realize all those ways of operating weren’t working. And when I operate that way still I feel that it’s not resonating. I’m not seeing the right way yet. But maybe I am looking for some security there in knowing how I’m supposed to act in a future.

Yes, very insightful. It really is astounding how just being present is “it”, as in what’s sought apparently. Aspects you’re noticing, like insecurity being an emotion which is or isn’t felt presently, is very clarifying & grounding, again in comparison to the burden of abstraction.

 

It clarifies it’s how the presently experienced thought feels, as opposed to an actual potential future. Emotion is self-inherent guidance in that way. Like how a green light and a red aren’t in need of much conceptual framework and speak for themselves. Emotions arise as guidance for thoughts, beliefs & interpretations, pointing to what’s ‘off’, and to what’s aligned & resonates (and creates & allows what’s wanted to manifest).

 

Nobody knows how to act in a future. Somebody would have to go there and see what’s going on first and as far as I’m aware nobody’s been to a future. 😆 It highlights the total awesomeness of just being present and seeing what happens. Being aware is ‘always’ ample. Even in regard to what thought pops up next. There’s innate excitement in totally not knowing what’s gonna happen, and just relishing in the spontaneity. 

 

Seeing what thought pops up next is also very insightful for receiving the message of emotions. Like if jealousy was felt but there wasn’t clarity around it, just acknowledging the emotion, and then waiting and seeing whatever thought pops up next, is most revealing & clarifying. 

 

3 hours ago, Kevin said:

I have strong faith that this process is what I want and it’s good. Sometimes when really intense stuff comes up I can forget that though.

That’s really great to hear. Yeah, for sure, it’s easy to forget when a tantrum, barfing, purging or what have you happens. Total mess lol. Also ‘baked into’ the ‘process’… the more barfed & purged, the more that “right way” of seeing is unobscured, in the sense that the tantrums, barfing etc, while completely valid experiences, also transpire only-presently and obscure rather than there being one who forgot something. 

 

3 hours ago, Kevin said:

Yep 100%. And sometimes in the moment I’ll see that I’m avoiding vulnerability but idk how to stop. Maybe it’s just a process of noticing it more. I feel like an iceberg and it feels like I’m thawing really slowly.

As the notion or thought arises that there is someone avoiding (vulnerability), it seems like there’s a doer doing it, and a knower which doesn’t know how to stop. The perplexing simplicity is there’s the thought, yet no doer or knower, and so there isn’t something happening, or someone doing something, who or which could stop or be stopped. The exposure of the “reality” of the implied self of thoughts, is the emotional vulnerability, yet is not someone being vulnerable. But it may very well seem like it initially. As you said, thawing out. 🫠 Really great point if it can be ‘seen’ - that’s the alreadyness of what you want. Like water being ice wanting to be liberated of the ice ness… melting is the process, already underway. It’s nice because if the thought arose ‘what is it I really want to be without going forward, and what do I want to manifest to experience’…  whatever that is, this is that already happening. 

 

3 hours ago, Kevin said:

What does that last bit mean? What I’ve heard is true but doesn’t resonate will empty first?

It’s like LIFO. Last In, First Out. It’s a term used for accounting, inventory and some annuities which points to the process or flow. Like with a LIFO annuity, when one withdrawals money from it, that money is the last, most recent money put in. It works the same with beliefs. The deeper beliefs are of identity and (so to speak) were created growing up. The more surface beliefs are more along the lines of conjecture. Stuff heard & adopted. Karma relates to the emptying of the more surface stuff, in which there was some conscious intention to focus on, while conditioning relates to misidentification. I mean, this is just how it seems to go. Not necessarily saying this is known or whatnot. 

 

An example from frame of reference… first time someone explained that size of muscle does not relate to strength, it blew my mind because there was the belief to the contrary, and that belief came from hearing this and adopting the belief. Whereas uprooting the belief I’m male is ‘deeper’, and was more deduced & created internally, than merely heard & adopted. Emptying wise it’s like having a finger nail peeled off compared to having your soul ripped from your spine and nervous system. 

 

3 hours ago, Kevin said:

Thanks man sometimes I need that reminder that I’m on the right track. 🙏 

Anytime! 🍻♥️

[Reena]

Maybe because they're heavily traumatised. 

[Rose]

Likely because in their childhood they didn’t receive love they wanted so they needed to learn to suppress the need. To help them suppress it they learned to ridicule, belittle and diminish it. Kind of like the people who are really poor and don’t want to do anything about it start trashing the rich, how they are all such horrible people, how they don’t know the “real struggle” and etc. 

[Mandy]

33 minutes ago, Rose said:

Likely because in their childhood they didn’t receive love they wanted so they needed to learn to suppress the need. To help them suppress it they learned to ridicule, belittle and diminish it. Kind of like the people who are really poor and don’t want to do anything about it start trashing the rich, how they are all such horrible people, how they don’t know the “real struggle” and etc. 

Unexpressed jealousy

[Phil]

On 8/28/2024 at 8:51 PM, Kevin said:

I’ve noticed there is sometimes a tendency to be grossed out or repulsed by love. For example I was talking to my therapist and she said she was proud of me and I was doing good. Internally I was disgusted.

The comment which was felt to be disgusting wasn’t about love, it was about a separate self. The notion there’s a doer might feel off because there isn’t. 

 

On 8/28/2024 at 8:51 PM, Kevin said:

And then she said it might be a good idea for me to find one thing everyday to be proud about and to say to myself that I’m proud. 
That might be a good idea but when she suggested it I metaphorically almost threw up. Like what a disgusting idea.

That comment also isn’t actually about love. It’s also about a separate self. The notion there are two of you might feel off because there isn’t. 

 

On 8/28/2024 at 8:51 PM, Kevin said:

I’ve noticed this sort of trend in myself and in others and it brings up a lot of questions. Isn’t positive affirmations and love good? What’s all this about. Love is good so how come praise is sometimes so uncomfortable? How come we sometimes push away love?

These comments also aren’t about love, they’re about selves which are separate of love. This also might feel of because there aren’t. 

 

It’s like this is all said to be about love, yet looking at what’s actually being said, it’s not. 

[Kevin]

On 9/2/2024 at 6:48 AM, Phil said:

The comment which was felt to be disgusting wasn’t about love, it was about a separate self. The notion there’s a doer might feel off because there isn’t. 

 

Ah yes. The disgust reaction was to the internal reaction of the no I’m not actually doing good and she’s wrong about it.

On 9/2/2024 at 6:48 AM, Phil said:

That comment also isn’t actually about love. It’s also about a separate self. The notion there are two of you might feel off because there isn’t. 

 

These comments also aren’t about love, they’re about selves which are separate of love. This also might feel of because there aren’t. 

 

It’s like this is all said to be about love, yet looking at what’s actually being said, it’s not. 

Ahh gotcha.

 

it seems that there is an intense compulsion towards knowing or figuring out what’s what. This seems to be a huge obstacle lately.

[Kevin]

On 8/30/2024 at 12:54 PM, Phil said:

Awesome, yes you’re definitely on the right track. Even the subtle distinction of discouragement as a presently felt emotion clarifies & lightens the load. So to speak, it’s a step towards feeling, which is what’s wanted, most paramount and most significant… and a step away from the discord & suffering of abstraction. 

 

Yes, very insightful. It really is astounding how just being present is “it”, as in what’s sought apparently. Aspects you’re noticing, like insecurity being an emotion which is or isn’t felt presently, is very clarifying & grounding, again in comparison to the burden of abstraction.

 

It clarifies it’s how the presently experienced thought feels, as opposed to an actual potential future. Emotion is self-inherent guidance in that way. Like how a green light and a red aren’t in need of much conceptual framework and speak for themselves. Emotions arise as guidance for thoughts, beliefs & interpretations, pointing to what’s ‘off’, and to what’s aligned & resonates (and creates & allows what’s wanted to manifest).

 

Nobody knows how to act in a future. Somebody would have to go there and see what’s going on first and as far as I’m aware nobody’s been to a future. 😆 It highlights the total awesomeness of just being present and seeing what happens. Being aware is ‘always’ ample. Even in regard to what thought pops up next. There’s innate excitement in totally not knowing what’s gonna happen, and just relishing in the spontaneity. 

 

Seeing what thought pops up next is also very insightful for receiving the message of emotions. Like if jealousy was felt but there wasn’t clarity around it, just acknowledging the emotion, and then waiting and seeing whatever thought pops up next, is most revealing & clarifying. 

 

That’s really great to hear. Yeah, for sure, it’s easy to forget when a tantrum, barfing, purging or what have you happens. Total mess lol. Also ‘baked into’ the ‘process’… the more barfed & purged, the more that “right way” of seeing is unobscured, in the sense that the tantrums, barfing etc, while completely valid experiences, also transpire only-presently and obscure rather than there being one who forgot something. 

 

Man lots of thoughts previously about how I’m getting worse. Or I should be past these things. I’ve felt all this stuff before so why am I here again? These thoughts don’t resonate but I guess that’s the resistance.

 

I want to think I’m making progress because why else am I orienting to all this pain and suffering if not to move beyond it eventually. But then thinking about how I’m someone who at one point didn’t have a clue but now I kind of get it. That’s just more of the same suffering. Because there is suffering when I forget about what I’ve supposedly learned.

 

 

 

On 8/30/2024 at 12:54 PM, Phil said:

As the notion or thought arises that there is someone avoiding (vulnerability), it seems like there’s a doer doing it, and a knower which doesn’t know how to stop. The perplexing simplicity is there’s the thought, yet no doer or knower, and so there isn’t something happening, or someone doing something, who or which could stop or be stopped. The exposure of the “reality” of the implied self of thoughts, is the emotional vulnerability, yet is not someone being vulnerable. But it may very well seem like it initially. As you said, thawing out. 🫠 Really great point if it can be ‘seen’ - that’s the alreadyness of what you want. Like water being ice wanting to be liberated of the ice ness… melting is the process, already underway. It’s nice because if the thought arose ‘what is it I really want to be without going forward, and what do I want to manifest to experience’…  whatever that is, this is that already happening. 

 

🤯

On 8/30/2024 at 12:54 PM, Phil said:

It’s like LIFO. Last In, First Out. It’s a term used for accounting, inventory and some annuities which points to the process or flow. Like with a LIFO annuity, when one withdrawals money from it, that money is the last, most recent money put in. It works the same with beliefs. The deeper beliefs are of identity and (so to speak) were created growing up. The more surface beliefs are more along the lines of conjecture. Stuff heard & adopted. Karma relates to the emptying of the more surface stuff, in which there was some conscious intention to focus on, while conditioning relates to misidentification. I mean, this is just how it seems to go. Not necessarily saying this is known or whatnot. 

 

An example from frame of reference… first time someone explained that size of muscle does not relate to strength, it blew my mind because there was the belief to the contrary, and that belief came from hearing this and adopting the belief. Whereas uprooting the belief I’m male is ‘deeper’, and was more deduced & created internally, than merely heard & adopted. Emptying wise it’s like having a finger nail peeled off compared to having your soul ripped from your spine and nervous system. 

 

Anytime! 🍻♥️

So you’re saying the deeper beliefs are like having your soul ripped out? That’s wild. But it kind of tracks. Seems like some vague ideas about how to operate are being loosened up lately and that can make things weird.