What’s The Most Convincing Aspect of Illusion?

[Enlightened Cat]

2 hours ago, Phil said:

The knower. 

The sneakiest!

[Orb]

5 minutes ago, Enlightened Cat said:

The sneakiest!

I remember on one of the QandA calls Phil said the ego is like your lawyer that advocates for your imprisonment lol

[Enlightened Cat]

11 minutes ago, Orb said:

I remember on one of the QandA calls Phil said the ego is like your lawyer that advocates for your imprisonment lol

Lol!

It's kind of like a prison cell. But you keep staying there. Cause the lawyer is like "there's treasure in there, trust!" So in a weird way, it's your own volition. But something feels off about it. Because you're stuck counting on the future. It's an illusion. 

Me: "But there clearly isn't any treasure in this prison cell, I've been here for a month now!"

Ego-Lawyer: "But what about 2 months?? Maybe something will appear after 2 months? You don't know! Better be patient and humble and assume you don't know!"

You really gotta explore all the concepts until you realize nothing is there.

Edited August 12 by Enlightened Cat

[Enlightened Cat]

1 minute ago, judy said:

maybe the idea that after working on it for long enough, you can get rid of illusion entirely (which you never will because it is sort of woven into the fabric of reality, illusion is reality).

Illusions aren't actually ever there by definition, they're only assumed.

It's like trying to get rid of Santa over time. The idea that you can get rid of Santa over time is still the same belief in Santa.

Consider that you've never actually known anything in the past or future, you've only known about the past and future. Like a rumour.

What you know now is what you always will know. No time travel needed. No Santa hunting needed.

[Blessed2]

2 hours ago, Orb said:

Manifestation won't match the abundance you are as long as unaligned perspectives are held onto and behaviors also don't reflect abundance. 

 

My answer to Phil touched this:

 

7 hours ago, Phil said:

The ‘convincing’ illusory aspect is separation, or that there’s something to be learned, attained, realized or maintained through external means, as if this abundance is something other than the natural, effortless expression of your being already unfolding.

 

2 hours ago, Orb said:

If you don't mind me asking, what's your daily routine? Like what goes on in your day? What if you jumped out of your routine into something risky? Something exciting! That's what keeps me working every single day! 

 

Routine and daily life is getting better every day. New studies are starting soon, in two weeks. Interestingly though, there is a belief that millions and Teslas cannot be carved out with the salaries and general opportunities of the field I'm going to study. 😂 A perfect context to contemplate!

 

[Orb]

2 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

 

My answer to Phil touched this:

 

 

 

Routine and daily life is getting better every day. New studies are starting soon, in two weeks. Interestingly though, there is a belief that millions and Teslas cannot be carved out with the salaries and general opportunities of the field I'm going to study. 😂 A perfect context to contemplate!

 

Tons of opportunities can arise! I've worked with clients who went the academic route and made a ton of money through other means! 

 

Also, an important part of making a lot of money is having multiple streams of income. 

[Orb]

3 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

 

My answer to Phil touched this:

 

 

 

Routine and daily life is getting better every day. New studies are starting soon, in two weeks. 😂 

That's good to hear 🙂

 

Momentum momentum momentum! 

[Enlightened Cat]

2 hours ago, judy said:

@Enlightened Cat i'm a full-time time traveller 

Been there, done that.

Edited August 12 by Enlightened Cat

[Phil]

17 hours ago, judy said:

maybe the idea that after working on it for long enough, you can get rid of illusion entirely (which you never will because it is sort of woven into the fabric of reality, illusion is reality).

Where’d ya get such a notion?

 

[Phil]

@judy

For what? 

[Phil]

What seems to be happening is that there’s “the worker” - the self which is working on a self in a progressive way over time, right? The self which is finding out what works so that it knows, and so it can better help the self. 

 

And the self being worked on isn’t good enough, and is unworthy and or undeserving. That’s why it’s being worked on. For that self, abundance comes in the form of being from other selves, and so it’s of the utmost importance what other selves think about that self. Accurate?

 

What’s felt underlying thoughts is the emotion guilt.

And maybe blame. 

 

The guilt & blame seem internalized, but are ‘held’ as if on behalf of the self which isn’t good enough, and is unworthy and or undeserving. This ‘holding’ of the lens obscures and colors all experience accordingly, seeming to reinforce that it’s true. It’s as if divided or torn and perhaps having adapted to being divided or torn. 

 

Truly internalized, the emotions of guilt and blame are revealed to be how the thoughts & interpretations feel. 

 

Therein it seems like the guidance of guilt & blame are felt by someone else, another self, and the apology innocently arises. When asked “for what”, there’s confusion. 

 

Any of this seem like what seems to be going on?

[Phil]

25 minutes ago, judy said:

i don't know, i don't even want to work on myself in the positive sense. like a self-help, personal development, spiritual type of working on myself....people tell me i should ideally be doing that, and i've been refusing to do it for years and can't bring myself to want to heal.

 

maybe i'm still "working on myself" in other ways, and people tell me i should work on that (i.e. stop working on myself) and i can't.

That there is a self to work on at all would require two selves, two of you, one working on the other. The “second self” is illusory. 

 

You can no more work on yourself or heal yourself, than you can take yourself to the grocery store or bring yourself a cup of tea. 

 

Self-help, self-improvement, personal development, etc, etc, etc - are beliefs, based on being two selves. That’s insanity. 

 

25 minutes ago, judy said:

yes.

speaking of time travelling...when i say sorry, i'm sort of dissociating. i could say it mid-conversation and people ask what for and sometimes it's not related to them or the present situation because i'm thinking about something completely different. 

In concession to a separate self, the thinker & doer of thoughts - why are you dissociating, and what do you believe you’re dissociating from?

 

The so called ‘thinking’ is presently experienced, it’s not unrelated at all - isn’t it so?

 

It’s the same as apologizing on a unicorns behalf, isn’t it?

[Serenity]

3 hours ago, Phil said:

What seems to be happening is that there’s “the worker” - the self which is working on a self in a progressive way over time, right? The self which is finding out what works so that it knows, and so it can better help the self. 

 

And the self being worked on isn’t good enough, and is unworthy and or undeserving. That’s why it’s being worked on. For that self, abundance comes in the form of being from other selves, and so it’s of the utmost importance what other selves think about that self. Accurate?

 

What’s felt underlying thoughts is the emotion guilt.

And maybe blame. 

 

The guilt & blame seem internalized, but are ‘held’ as if on behalf of the self which isn’t good enough, and is unworthy and or undeserving. This ‘holding’ of the lens obscures and colors all experience accordingly, seeming to reinforce that it’s true. It’s as if divided or torn and perhaps having adapted to being divided or torn. 

 

Truly internalized, the emotions of guilt and blame are revealed to be how the thoughts & interpretations feel. 

 

Therein it seems like the guidance of guilt & blame are felt by someone else, another self, and the apology innocently arises. When asked “for what”, there’s confusion. 

 

Any of this seem like what seems to be going on?

👏👏👏

Guilt for what, though? 
 

I have noticed the pattern between feelings of unworthiness coming from a sep self, resulting into feelings of blame for failing to seemingly do well in the future better sep self.

You've described very well the circle I've been going through for maybe decades, until  self-blame was felt and expressed.

It feels like I've finally popped the cork off a long-pressurized bottle.

So much that I am confused at what I am experiencing since then. 
 

[Phil]

1 minute ago, judy said:

i don't understand the question😅

 

32 minutes ago, judy said:

i'm sort of dissociating

Why?

From what?

[Phil]

3 minutes ago, Serenity said:

👏👏👏

Guilt for what, though? 
 

I have noticed the pattern between feelings of unworthiness coming from a sep self, resulting into feelings of blame for failing to seemingly do well in the future better sep self.

You've described very well the circle I've been going through for maybe decades, until  self-blame was felt and expressed.

It feels like I've finally popped the cork off a long-pressurized bottle.

So much that I am confused at what I am experiencing since then. 

Time is illusory. ☺️

[Phil]

Just now, judy said:

i'm thinking a lot about the past and what's happening somewhere else, hypothetically. 

Why?

 

Just now, judy said:

i'm barely even here or present with myself.

So there’s two of you, and the plan is for you to be present with yourself?

 

[Phil]

@judy

Where is the past?

 

Where is the self which you could allow to forget about the past?

 

Is the “second self” the self which tells you it’s not healthy?

 

As in… the discord isn’t felt directly?

[Serenity]

Shame is the most convincing aspect of illusion.

Shame is all the situations where the illusion of a self-concept triggers emotions that do not feel good about itself 🤷‍♀️. All the self-referential thoughts that are untrue about the nature of Self, and thus are only a mirage of ego are shame.

Shame is the emotional mirage the ego feels. 🤔

Edited August 13 by Serenity

[Serenity]

6 minutes ago, Phil said:

Time is illusory. ☺️

😂

I know. That's part of the joke on that situation.  😂🥹 😂

[Phil]

6 minutes ago, Serenity said:

😂

I know. That's part of the joke on that situation.  😂🥹 😂

“I know”. 

😂🙏🏼

 

6 minutes ago, judy said:

Okay but I'm still doing something wrong in the present then. Like thinking too much about the wrong things and being paralysed.

How’s it feel to believe and say that? That there’s right & wrong, and you’re doing something wrong?

Great or not great?