Was Charles Manson An Awakened Master?

[Cooper Swam]

This thread is in no way glorifying Charles Manson who was one of the most psychotic characters of our times. It is an interesting look at what he was saying and how obviously awake he was. Which has surprised me. 

 

Was Charles Manson an awakened master? 

 

Below are some quotes from an excellent essay written by David R. Williams and titled The American Meaning of Charley Manson. The quotes don't do the article justice as its TLDR but is a nice, little read while eating breakfast and drinking a coffee or tea. http://mason.gmu.edu/~drwillia/manson2.html

 

Quote

He proclaimed that reality exists as consciousness and not as matter, and thus truth is to be sought not in science but in the subjective intuition of each mind. Each of us, he said, if we dig down through the layers of culture and belief that has been accumulating over the millennia will find a universal consciousness we all share and from which we all come.

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Manson calls himself Jesus Christ, but, like Emerson, he also says that every man is Jesus Christ. Every man has the original energy within him.  I am everything, man,  he says, and he means it. But he does not bother to explain when the I of his discourse is the person, Charles Manson, or the Universal eye that is the will of God. 

 

Im Jesus Christ whether you want to accept it or not Im reaping it in thought. Its a thought, a thought, He taps his fingers on his head to emphasize his point. Do you see what Im saying? In other words, the whole world is a thought, and I am in the thought of Peace-on-Earth.

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Like Emerson and the earlier romantics, he is a philosophical idealist. He believes that what is ultimately real is not matter but consciousness. This whole thing we call reality, or the universe, is an illusion, a dream. What we call God is the dreamer. And our bodies are no more real than are the strange beings that flit through our dreams at night. The whole world is a thought, and each persons perceptions are but a series of thought within the framework of the larger thought. As Manson once put it, everyones playing a different game with the thought.  All of the many perceptions of this existence are but dreams within a larger dream. This is where Manson is coming from when he says to the court and the straight world, I don't live in your dream. This is why he says You’ve got my body in a cell but Im walking in forever, man. He is freer, he claims, to wander among the mountain in his jail cell than if he were struggling to survive in the day-to-day realities of the outside world. From his perspective, to believe that this physical world is the ultimate reality is to be trapped in the illusion; to be aware of the cosmic mind is to be liberated from the illusion.

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To realize, as Emerson said, that we are symbols and we inhabit symbols, is to take the first step out of the common sense perception of reality into a transcendent consciousness. Here, Manson sounds eerily like Norman O. Brown, whom he may have never read. But Browns words were abroad in the sixties; he could have picked them up anywhere. Rolling Stones article on Manson, written in 1969 and reprinted in Mindfuckers, puts quotes by Brown and Manson back to back. Words are symbols, Manson told Rolling Stone, All Im doing is jumbling the symbols in your brain. Everything is symbolic. Symbols are just connections in your brain. Even your body is a symbol. In Loves Body, Brown writes,  The body is not to be understood literally. Everything is symbolic, everything including the human body. And elsewhere in the book he writes, To make in ourselves a new consciousness, an erotic sense of reality, is to become conscious of symbolism. Symbolism is mind making connections (correspondences) rather than distinctions (separations).

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To find that one mind behind the dualities of life, to find that cosmic center, that essence that LSD advocates like Tim Leary and Baba Ram Das also thought they found, was to find a place beyond good and evil. Manson believed he had found that one mind, tripping away on acid, and hence he had turned his back on all of the false constructs of the language of the world, all of the artificially constructed binaries.

 

             

Edited July 10 by Cooper Swam

[Cooper Swam]

Im listening to an audio book which is a fairly new release about Manson and the murders and one of the Manson family was saying some pretty awake stuff, so i looked into it. It’s probably common knowledge to lots of people? Who knows. 

 

So they obviously awoke through using  psychedelics. That does give hope for anyone. lol. 

 

The realising you are Jesus or Buddha when you awaken to Oneness is true. Who knows how far he really got beyond that? 

[Mandy]

It's a wake up call that awakening is not a credit to, an event in time for, nor having anything to do with an individual. 

[WhiteOwl]

25 minutes ago, Mandy said:

nor having anything to do with an individual. 

I am not just trying to argue against anything, i really want to see the truth. But it does seem like there are separate "lenses" that can manifest and attract. Like its shared here, you can't manifest on behalf of anyone else, and we are all attracting and creating. So some separation. Not a an individual or a self whatever those things are, but something. 

[Mandy]

@WhiteOwl You can apparently attract a $10,000 credit in your bank account, but the realization that there's no you isn't yours. You're right though, if we were to use the concession of a self attracting for a self we would say that if one were to attract it they would do the same thing and throw away beliefs of "I don't have it" and tune into wonder, love and liberation and abundance anyway. If there are questions of awake or not awake, neither of those possibilities are held in place by a separate self. No one realizes that there's no one. In other words, there is no person there for them to be applied to. It's like playing pin the tail on the donkey when there's no donkey. No one wins or loses out. Doesn't mean it's any less mind blowing or that the love is any less without the seperate self owning it. 

[WhiteOwl]

2 minutes ago, Mandy said:

No one realizes that there's no one

But you over there can be aware of this, while i over here from this lens, can be unaware. This is frustrating. There is no-one or thing you can point and acredit it it to, but its still fucking there.

[Mandy]

@WhiteOwl

 

14 minutes ago, WhiteOwl said:

But you over there can be aware of this, while i over here from this lens, can be unaware. This is frustrating. There is no-one or thing you can point and acredit it it to, but its still fucking there.

There isn't a here or a there, and Awareness is not the duality of aware and unaware, it can't be either or. 

 

Yesterday I put this video up, and this morning there was this comment. "ohh another non duality speaker babbling in an idyllic scenery ... with Tolle's pauses too !! I am not against non-duality but speak confidently about something you don't know (especially at that young age) is silly." 

 

The funny synchronicity is that I addressed confidence in the later part of the video, and how it's not that. I don't think the commenter listened that far to hear it before drawing conclusions. It is not confidence, it's just not trying desperately to figure it out while claiming to KNOW that something is missing. What you aren't doing or believing is never a credit unto you. 

 

 

 

[Blessed2]

Seems to me more like just the 60s counter culture movement. It was the trend. Manson used it to project.

 

He made the common american's lifestyle seem insane and murder seem sane.

 

[Orb]

4 hours ago, Cooper Swam said:

Im listening to an audio book which is a fairly new release about Manson and the murders and one of the Manson family was saying some pretty awake stuff, so i looked into it. It’s probably common knowledge to lots of people? Who knows. 

 

So they obviously awoke through using  psychedelics. That does give hope for anyone. lol. 

 

The realising you are Jesus or Buddha when you awaken to Oneness is true. Who knows how far he really got beyond that? 

Spiritual awakening is only the beginning. 

 

That's why those people like Charles Manson and other cult leaders have caused so much harm. They experienced spiritual awakening, yet they didnt go further on letting go of beliefs and feeling the guidance of emotion. 

 

When you take a half-assed enlightenment and combine it with knowledge (the vedas, sutras, etc.) you got a dangerous combination. Just because you say all the non dual stuff doesn't mean its your actual experience.

[Mandy]

Just now, Orb said:

your actual experience.

What's your actual experience?

[Orb]

Just now, Mandy said:

What's your actual experience?

 

Everything just is what it is.

 

Traces of identity remain, vanity, pride, etc. 

 

Ive been inspecting identity/personality lately and receiving insight into this. 

[Mandy]

@Orb I should have worded it, what's a "your actual experience." 

[Phil]

In questioning the notion of a Charles Manson's wakefulness, it’s crucial for infinite unconditional wakefulness to explore the actuality of the already-the-case-ness of wakefulness.

 

 

Wakefulness appears as if there is an "everything else," a somewhere that wakefulness is inside, while never actually becoming anything at all. There is only this one perspective, and the overlooking of this is delusion in that it is the overlooking of oneself, wakefulness.

 

Overlooking the present-reality of wakefulness can make it seem to wakefulness that there is other than wakefulness, such as separation, via separate thoughts.

 

In such a way, obscuring thoughts can seem to create an illusion of a knower knowing or an understander understanding, as separate from wakefulness. This illusory veiling, appearing as thoughts, can make it seem to wakefulness there are other knowers or understanders, separate selves with varying levels of knowing, understanding, and luminosity.

 

This forum and its interactions truly appear only to serve as opportunities for introspection in this regard. Reality, as infinite and unconditional wakefulness, manifests preferences / desires, as wakefulness is indeed lighthearted, carefree, and playful.

 

Perception and the emotions guiding it are truly one and the same. Any experiential emotional suppression of a 'not ready to be felt' interpretation manifests as well, as perception. Recognizing this unity reveals that what is wanted can manifest by allowing emotions to be fully felt, thus collapsing the seeming duality of inside and outside, or inner and outer.

[ivankiss]

Half baked awakening, at most. Not even. 

 

Some might even call it blasphemy, bastardization or retardation of truth.

[Orb]

14 hours ago, Mandy said:

@Orb I should have worded it, what's a "your actual experience." 

It's useful in communication.

[Cooper Swam]

16 hours ago, Mandy said:

There isn't a here or a there, and Awareness is not the duality of aware and unaware, it can't be either or. 

 So true. It cant be located. 

[Cooper Swam]

17 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

Seems to me more like just the 60s counter culture movement. It was the trend. Manson used it to project.

 

He made the common american's lifestyle seem insane and murder seem sane.

 

With Manson there was a lot of mind control stuff going on too, apparently. 

[Cooper Swam]

16 hours ago, Orb said:

Everything just is what it is.

The isness.. 

[Cooper Swam]

18 hours ago, Orb said:

 

When you take a half-assed enlightenment and combine it with knowledge (the vedas, sutras, etc.) you got a dangerous combination. Just because you say all the non dual stuff doesn't mean it’s your actual experience.

It’s always a red flag when an apparent awake person is arrogant AF or super jealous. Anyone can say they are awake. 

 

 

[Phil]

An apparent awake person is precisly as you say, apparent, not an awake person. It’s an oxymoron, there’s no such thing… as wakefulness, being infinite, does not and could not know finite (a person). There might be an experience of arrogance and or jealousy, yet there is no arrogant or jealous person.