Frustration with women

[fopylo]

Ok, let's make the premise that I still have more to understand about how women function and about dating. Also, the title isn't meant to sound harsh and red pill, just expressing my frustration in not managing to flirt well.

 

I'll be honest and as much humble as I can be when saying this, that I am quite an attractive guy and I get the hints and rumors (I was agreed upon the girls in the camp to be the best looking guy) - but this never got me anymore, since in the end, it's just the looks, and looks don't necessarily equate to anything. However I can be social, and people say I am very funny (by the way I talk and behave), and I have quite a good body. Ok, now enough about me, you got the point.

So I've had a few cases of interaction with women (Tinder, real life, Instagram). The thing is, it seems I am terrible at texting girls. I text some normal inviting messages, and it doesn't take too long until they either ghost me or the conversation died. This is really frustrating, especially by the fact that it keeps repeating itself and I honestly feel like I'm texting very normally. In real life I had some women that tried talking to me (maybe flirting sometimes) and I just didn't know what to do. I get scared. Yes, I get scared of opening myself to someone else, of being completely vulnerable to them, of dying into them.

I have those constant desires of having sex, each time with a different woman that has somehow appeared in my life. Sometimes it feels like I'll never get it, and I don't want to lose my virginity at 25, I want it relatively now, such a perfect time.

 

I must say I am fortunate to have a friend that I can talk to about all this. Ever since my first date we started talking, about my dating life and his, and give advice to each other, and follow up till this day. He had his first kiss not long ago. Off topic.

 

Now before all you women (even men) start attacking me, shaming me, disrespecting this 'primal' desire I have, or telling me to be a 'decent' man - Just stop. I'm not looking for lectures about how to be the greatest man. Again, my desire is to simply have sex with a nice looking woman (not a proustite. Also, it's illegal here, and there's none, and I don't even intend to), to fulfill this need (desire).

 

What I would like to understand is why I keep failing getting the girl after she starts texting me. Also, would like to know how to text and flirt well (texts and real life, but text is just the more frequent one currently in my life now).

 

[Orb]

I think you're purging all the pick up artist shit. 

 

Seems like you've intuitively felt the offness of getting affection through manipulation, and unveiling the way of getting affection through expression. the offness felt has nothing to do with women but the beliefs/behaviors associated with trying to get affection.

 

Start to improve your communication abilities through mindfulness, be mindful of every aspect of communication. Start to notice whether you are trying to "get something" from the girl or rather just having fun. 

[fopylo]

@Orb

Well of course I'm trying to get something. Man, I've been having fun and I know how to have fun communicating with girls, but it doesn't go any further. Over and over I have those periods of wanting to have sex already for the first time, and end up masturbating to release this frustration, which doesn't completely go away. Of course when talking with a new girl + having the desire for sex, then I attach myself to it and play it safe because for me it is risky. It's not that everyday I talk to a girl. It happens like once every like 2-3 months, so yeah

[Phil]

@fopylo

What do you mean by… dieting into them… and… for me it’s risky? 

[Blessed2]

On 4/23/2022 at 7:09 PM, fopylo said:

let's make the premise that I still have more to understand about how women function and about dating.

 

Hmm. Something smells off here to me. "How women function".

 

Kind of brings up this belief that women are 'another species', an object of study and knowledge in order to have intimate relationship.

 

If you hold a belief like this, I'd say inspect it. Are women really that different? What is there to understand?

 

Not saying this is a wrong / evil belief, it just seems quite off, and probably harmful in a sense of getting laid / having healthy relationship.

 

IMO sex isn't just about intimacy and romance. It's also about friendship. You don't go around trying to study and understand people to make friends. You chill, you talk, listen, share, acknowledge who they are, their presence.

Yesterday as we were about to sleep, I told my girlfriend I want to have her as my best friend. She was so happy she started crying.

 

Not getting laid isn't a failure. This isn't a game, this is a flow.

[fopylo]

@Phil

7 hours ago, Phil said:

What do you mean by… dieting into them

Dying into them is what I said.

I mean being very wide open and vulnerable the them while fully trusting them.

7 hours ago, Phil said:

and… for me it’s risky?

If a valuable woman shows up, then I prefer playing it safer in order to keep her around. If I play it very unsafe, then I have a high risk of losing her

[fopylo]

@Blessed2

53 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

Kind of brings up this belief that women are 'another species', an object of study and knowledge in order to have intimate relationship.

 

If you hold a belief like this, I'd say inspect it. Are women really that different? What is there to understand?

What? Are you serious?

Yeah, it's not like I'd behave to a girl like a good male friend of mine. It's a different way of communicating, different contexts. Likewise, a woman won't talk to guys exactly in the way she talks to her female friends.

53 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

it just seems quite off, and probably harmful in a sense of getting laid / having healthy relationship.

I mean, this in itself sounds quite off. So say I talk quite bluntly to a friend of mine, dry text, talk about sex and relationships, talk about some drama, give high fives and bro hugs - quite normal behaviors of guys to guys. But if I behave to a woman like that it will immediately turn her off and there won't be much sexual tension. Just really imagine how some male person, some famous person, rapper, acter, boxer will act to his girlfriend like one of his 'bois'.

Edited May 2, 2022 by fopylo

[Mandy]

By one of the "bois" do you mean... someone you're comfortable with and don't need anything from? Don't you want to be comfortable around women? Comfortable doesn't mean there isn't also a spark or attraction. If you've got preconceived ideas of how you need to act around a certain group of people, you're gonna be on edge and inauthentic, because you're going to be trying to conform to a bunch of limitations. That's a form of manipulation (not saying or accusing you that you're manipulating women) because it's a belief that by playing by the assumed rules you can get what you want. Desire, the essence of desire (not separate from fulfillment) over end outcome.

 

"I want to get good at texting women SO I can get sex." 

 

Or...

 

"I want to enjoy texting women." 

[Phil]

@fopylo

Sorry… typo… I meant dying. ‘Dieting into them’, lol. 

 

Text wise… quick chat, and then basically get to when you’re gonna hang out. Keep it super simple, light, fun and straightforward. 

 

Inner game wise, it’s overly complex. I’d let the dying into them, being vulnerable, and trust thinking go altogether. Might be sending them overly complex mixed signals, with hints of neediness, resulting texting ten times more words than what’s necessary. They might be feeling the frustration, fear (‘scared’) and pessimism and vibrationally turned off. Less is more. It might sound weird at first, but try feeling more boredom & contentment, more simplicity, less ‘holding them apart’ as uniquely special / ‘pedestaling them’ / ‘they have what you need’. 

 

Another way to think of it… are you really looking for a girl who’s feeling frustration, fear, pessimism and neediness? Probably not. Probably just wanna hang out and have fun, and then as it goes, maybe get to know each other more deeply. Much more ‘down the road’ on the deeper getting to know each, and potentially having sex aspect, if it happens at all. Take it one simple step at a time. Feel your best in any & either case. Non-contingent fun. This is naturally feeling the ‘higher’ emotions, which attract much more naturally. Another way to put it… just be yourself. Some will, some won’t, so what. Careful not to over-swing the pendulum to ‘hard to get’. 

 

Don’t settle for taking this as discouraging. If you do, you’re missing what’s being said. You’re attracting them, but then bringing a big story. Let the big story go, and allow. 🙂 

 

 

[fopylo]

@Mandy Yeah well it's exactly because of sexual attraction (and attraction in general) that I can't give the same kind of talk, the same behavior, talk about anything I want that I can do more easily with a guy than a girl. I can talk with my friend about wanting sex, but if a woman hears me say that then it's over.

5 hours ago, Mandy said:

"I want to enjoy texting women."

Eh.. maybe. More like "I want sex"

[Mandy]

You aren't talking about wanting sex though. You're talking about the fact that you don't have sex. 

 

1. "I want a vacation because I love the feeling of seeing new places and losing all my habitual patterns in the wonder and the immersion of the energy of new places. In fact, I can walk out the door and experience the same damn thing, that's the magic of it. I still want to go to Hawaii and Japan and that's even more magical." 

 

2. "I don't have enough f-ing money to spend on plane tickets because I should fix the leaky toilet and the damn hole in the wall instead (not gonna do that either way, cause blah),  no one will watch my kids, if I bring them they will probably step on some poisonous sea urchin or some shit, and flights are a mess anyway. People hate tourists." This is not WANTING to go on vacation. This is wanting not to go on vacation, and also not wanting to not NOT go on vacation. 😂

 

If Hawaii and Japan were people, they would naturally be WAY more turned on by 1. Way turned off by 2. 

19 minutes ago, fopylo said:

 

Eh.. maybe. More like "I want sex"

😂

 

Do you really though? I don't think so. 

[fopylo]

5 hours ago, Phil said:

Text wise… quick chat, and then basically get to when you’re gonna hang out. Keep it super simple, light, fun and straightforward.

@Phil Thing is that sometimes I am just stuck, not knowing how to keep the conversation from dying. Usually it happens at the start, not knowing really how to start a conversation with someone new I just met.

 

5 hours ago, Phil said:

It might sound weird at first, but try feeling more boredom & contentment, more simplicity, less ‘holding them apart’ as uniquely special / ‘pedestaling them’ / ‘they have what you need’. 

What I feel is frustration. Boredom is something I experience a lot, but when I want to express by texting her in the feeling of boredom I really don't know what to tell her. I do indeed hold them quite high because they have something they have I need.

 

5 hours ago, Phil said:

Another way to think of it… are you really looking for a girl who’s feeling frustration, fear, pessimism and neediness?

So I forgot to mention that the reason I started this thread is because of one girl I was really sure it will work out but ghosted me a lot. She gave me hints and then disappeared. This same girl however, came back and we started texting (on Instagram). Her messages are really giving the signal "let's fuck" (not even joking) like she writes to me "wanna play a different game?", "Maybe send a picture of your boxers, I like pretty boxers", "and then we'll make out (kinda sarcastic, but did kinda mean it) ". Afterwards I asked her if she wants to make out, and forwarded the question back at me. I told her that honestly I'm quite open to it. She told me that I'm rude. Then I laughed and asked her if she wants. She said she doesn't know.

We don't talk so much but she is a great example, and I hope something will happen. The thing that is odd a bit is that she barely has photos of herself, and none of her face (besides profile pic, but not fully), and barely her body. Her photos are at least a year old. She doesn't like revealing herself much as I see.

I hope it will go quite smooth and meet her sometime soon because in 2 months I'm off to the military.

It will be nice to hang out and have fun as well, but I barely know how she looks (I know she looks quite good and I believe her body is also nice).

[fopylo]

6 minutes ago, Mandy said:

Do you really though? I don't think so.

@Mandy Yes I do. I really do want this experience. It has me really curious what this is really all about and would really like to experience first hand in first person not through a screen, but up close

[Mandy]

Maybe you are too busy "screening" them out. 🤷‍♂️

[Phil]

2 hours ago, fopylo said:

Thing is that sometimes I am just stuck, not knowing how to keep the conversation from dying. Usually it happens at the start, not knowing really how to start a conversation with someone new I just met.

Well, in case you haven’t noticed almost everybody loves to talk about themselves. So just ask some simple casual easy-going questions about her. 

 

 I don’t really see it as stuck, I see it as less is more. You’re plenty attractive and charming, and you are a decent human being. You are already in the winning position. It’s really just a matter of not saying something off putting and screwing it up. But even then, not being a doormat and instead, saying something that creates a little tension is interesting and fun too. Gotta feel it out as you go. 
 

If you met her on tinder, I don’t think the point is to chat much at all, the point is to arrange when and where to meet in person. But don’t add to that ”to have sex” neither in your mind nor in your texts . Stay with the moment, keep it one little step at a time. Meet just to meet, see if there’s even any chemistry attraction.  
 

If you met her through work, school, a mutual friend etc., then ask a question related to that. Like if it was through school for example, don’t say I can’t stand this teacher, have you had this teacher yet, what do you think of them? Ask what she’s majoring in.  Ask what her favorite class is. Ask what she does for fun to unwind after exams. 

 

The simplest approach is the very general approach. You can always ask questions about general things like movies or music, but make it specific to her by asking… what kind of movies are you into? As compared to specific and not about her really, like did you see the new Batman movie?  Or with music… What genres of music are your favorite?  And make it more interesting, more personal following that up with, what’s your newest jam you’ve been listening to? What’s the killer song to listen to while exercising that I haven’t heard of yet? If you were leaving tomorrow on a road trip what would your playlist look like?

 

You could preface questions by being a little flirty and creating a little excitement in the question by saying something like… ok let’s really get to know Maria… I’m gonna take a wild guess your favorite movies are romantic comedies… Am I right?  People like it when you say their name. It’s more intimate without being uncomfortable or aggressive. 

These are just questions off the top of my head. Overall, relax, be yourself. be natural, be present in the moment, talk about whatever’s happening around you… whatever you notice in the environment, ask her what she thinks about that in general.

 

The way you do that is not getting emotionally attached to an outcome. Genuinely regard (in your inner world so to speak) the interaction without contingency, like as far as you’re concerned she can take it or leave it, no big deal. Plenty of fish in the sea. Billions. 
 

2 hours ago, fopylo said:

What I feel is frustration. Boredom is something I experience a lot, but when I want to express by texting her in the feeling of boredom I really don't know what to tell her. I do indeed hold them quite high because they have something they have I need.

No they don’t. The needy attitude and belief is not helping you whatsoever.  Vibrationally, when you are sending out “I need “,  the universe just says here you go, and you mistakenly reinforce your belief that you need more. Get real with yourself, you don’t need making out or sex… you want it. Imagine looking into a mirror and saying I need this, the mirror will only reflect back I need this.  From her perspective, it is not enticing to be needed. It is fun, exciting and inherently flirtatious to be wanted. She’s here for your experience, not as a supplement for your communion.  
 

 

Ghosted me is a projection. Stop believing that. Listen to Esther hicks instead. Inspect beliefs instead. Take total responsibility and accountability for your vibration. if you think you are being ghosted, question, why and how am I attracting getting ghosted?

 

 

When a girl tells you she wants to make out with you, assuming you want to make out with her… Stop talking. Make a light hearted comment about it… Then follow it up with some thing like… Seriously though I’d love to meet you, how does Friday at seven downtown sound? (Or wherever and whenever obviously. Fill in the blanks here of course.) The ABC’s of the sales industry comes to mind… Always be closing. So to speak of course, when she outright tells you she wants to buy, don’t chitchat or keep on selling. Move to the next step. Scheduling when and where.  Talking about making out is kind of weird. I would  talk about the coordinating of getting together… And then just allow the making out to happen when you’re together. She might’ve thought you were rude, because you didn’t move to the scheduling when she had basically thrown it out there for you to do so. 
 

I hear you on the couple of months, and that you’ve got quite a fire you want to put out. Even still, employ the fundamentals, breathe from your stomach, relax, notice thoughts and emotions. Above all else… Don’t be needy.

[fopylo]

3 hours ago, Phil said:

Well, in case you haven’t noticed almost everybody loves to talk about themselves. So just ask some simple casual easy-going questions about her. 

@Phil

Yeah we've covered the basics. But 1 - the whole conversation can't be filled with yes/no and clear simple answers. Eventually more open questions/conversations need to take place. And 2 - It's very difficult, considering she doesn't reveal almost anything about herself, while I on the other hand have posts from my life experiences and she knows quite a bit more about me than me of her. As a joke I took a picture of my hand and sent her (it had some silly context) and then told her that since I showed her my secret hand she needs to also send one of hers, but she refused (it was all done in lightheartedness). She seems quite like a private person. I spoke with a friend of mine and told him I am a little cautious in case this is some bot or some shit, but he doesn't really think so, and I'm trying to believe it's real.

3 hours ago, Phil said:

You’re plenty attractive and charming, and you are a decent human being. You are already in the winning position.

Thanks you! Makes me quite happy to read this 😊 Am I rude for asking what exactly makes me attractive, since you actually spoke with me?

3 hours ago, Phil said:

It’s really just a matter of not saying something off putting and screwing it up. But even then, not being a doormat and instead, saying something that creates a little tension is interesting and fun too. Gotta feel it out as you go. 

What do you mean by "something off putting" and by "something that creates a little tensions"?

3 hours ago, Phil said:

If you met her on tinder, I don’t think the point is to chat much at all, the point is to arrange when and where to meet in person. But don’t add to that ”to have sex” neither in your mind nor in your texts . Stay with the moment, keep it one little step at a time. Meet just to meet, see if there’s even any chemistry attraction.  
 

If you met her through work, school, a mutual friend etc., then ask a question related to that. Like if it was through school for example, don’t say I can’t stand this teacher, have you had this teacher yet, what do you think of them? Ask what she’s majoring in.  Ask what her favorite class is. Ask what she does for fun to unwind after exams.

I met her out of nowhere on Instagram. She's an odd case. Apparently we have a mutual follower (a guy from my small town my age) and she lives far away in the north. Also, a friend from my camp is a mutual follower, and he is not near none of them. The friend from camp also doesn't have an idea who she is, but apparently she followed me and him. Anyways she liked my latest post, then just for fun I decided to like her latest post, and then she liked the one before, and so did I... and we continued until all posts have been liked and it was quite funny for me lol. Then I wrote to her 'lmao what is this game we're playing' and then she said 'wanna play a different?' (here, you're getting even more context). After some texting I realized that those simple short answer questions are eventually killing the conversation.

3 hours ago, Phil said:

The simplest approach is the very general approach. You can always ask questions about general things like movies or music, but make it specific to her by asking… what kind of movies are you into? As compared to specific and not about her really, like did you see the new Batman movie?  Or with music… What genres of music are your favorite?  And make it more interesting, more personal following that up with, what’s your newest jam you’ve been listening to? What’s the killer song to listen to while exercising that I haven’t heard of yet? If you were leaving tomorrow on a road trip what would your playlist look like?

And just ask them out of nowhere?

Also, I've already thought of plugging those type of questions already, but I've thought about the fact that she seems to want to make out mostly and so I believe starting to float around with those kind of questions can be a little turn off.

3 hours ago, Phil said:

You could preface questions by being a little flirty and creating a little excitement in the question by saying something like… ok let’s really get to know Maria… I’m gonna take a wild guess your favorite movies are romantic comedies… Am I right?  People like it when you say their name. It’s more intimate without being uncomfortable or aggressive. 

Noted. Thanks

2 hours ago, Phil said:

When a girl tells you she wants to make out with you, assuming you want to make out with her… Stop talking. Make a light hearted comment about it… Then follow it up with some thing like… Seriously though I’d love to meet you, how does Friday at seven downtown sound? (Or wherever and whenever obviously. Fill in the blanks here of course.) The ABC’s of the sales industry comes to mind… Always be closing. So to speak of course, when she outright tells you she wants to buy, don’t chitchat or keep on selling. Move to the next step. Scheduling when and where.  

Ok so she didn't explicitly said she wants to make out. The more full version was that I asked her something like 'So Thursdays you go party?', she said yesss, then I said "maybe sometime I'll see you at a party", and then she said the "and then we'll make out". But then she acted like it was quite sarcastic and jokingly said it, and then to discover it's probably half true.

 

2 hours ago, Phil said:

Talking about making out is kind of weird.

I totally agree with you lmao 😂. It's her fault, no mine. She was bringing those topics out of nowhere lol. But yeah, I've been thinking about it and it might be hella weird to then meet up in person after those conversations.

 

2 hours ago, Phil said:

She might’ve thought you were rude, because you didn’t move to the scheduling when she had basically thrown it out there for you to do so. 

You have a point there. I'll tell you what though: There was a few months ago this girl on tinder I matched with, and she was very beautiful (still is lol), and she also seemed kinda nice with the way she was texting. Thing is I was moving very quickly and asked her if she wants to meet up in real life sometime next week. She told me that maybe she can, but nothing ever happened. This is not the first time it's happening. I've been learning from experience that asking a girl if she wants to meet up fairly early is turning them off. Feeling the pain of not having met this girl from Tinder, I couldn't allow myself to ask quickly if a girl wants to meet up or else I'll lose her. And also, I am a relatively nice guy and so I don't like to be too pushy when it seems like she's still kinda uncomfortable/unsure.

 

Yesterday morning I wrote to her 'good luck' and she only saw it like a few hours ago, almost 2 days (but she's been online sometimes), but she didn't respond to that. She sorta ghosted this message, and now I'm stuck because I don't know what to do and how to keep it flowing.

 

[Phil]

16 minutes ago, fopylo said:

Yeah we've covered the basics. But 1 - the whole conversation can't be filled with yes/no and clear simple answers. Eventually more open questions/conversations need to take place. And 2 - It's very difficult, considering she doesn't reveal almost anything about herself, while I on the other hand have posts from my life experiences and she knows quite a bit more about me than me of her. As a joke I took a picture of my hand and sent her (it had some silly context) and then told her that since I showed her my secret hand she needs to also send one of hers, but she refused (it was all done in lightheartedness). She seems quite like a private person. I spoke with a friend of mine and told him I am a little cautious in case this is some bot or some shit, but he doesn't really think so, and I'm trying to believe it's real.

Conversation naturally deepens. More so in person, or though Zoom compared to text. Just have fun, try not to overthink too much. 🙂 

She might be more private, more reserved. 

19 minutes ago, fopylo said:

Am I rude for asking what exactly makes me attractive, since you actually spoke with me?

I don’t think it’s rude, but I got no details for ya. Lol. 

21 minutes ago, fopylo said:

What do you mean by "something off putting" and by "something that creates a little tensions"?

Like ‘putting your foot in your mouth’, saying something that later you might wish you didn’t. Something judgmental, too provocative, etc. I mean, you will, probably a hundred times, everyone does. 

Tensions as in flirtatious, some sexual tension. Tension isn’t the best word. Throw her off balance occasionally with not overly consistently being nice & kind. Tease her a little about something, but careful not to be a jerk. Takes practice / experience. 

25 minutes ago, fopylo said:

And just ask them out of nowhere?

I had this particular girl in mind in the sense you’ve already been chatting. But, yeah. Apply common sense. There’s always someway you meet a girl, something that led to it, so there’s always that to initially talk about.  I wouldn’t just walk up to a girl on the street and say “what’s your favorite movie?” That’d seem odd. You probably know this already though.

 

Give it a google to see what woman have to say about it. Research a little and get a sense of their perspective and what is welcomed and works, and what is off putting / uncomfortable / not welcomed and doesn’t work. Wikihow is an easy start. It’s usually simple, straightforward and balanced. Then check out some sites, and feel if you resonate with the insights they share. 

29 minutes ago, fopylo said:

But then she acted like it was quite sarcastic and jokingly said it, and then to discover it's probably half true.

Sounds like she’s having fun and being flirty, also of course, I assume she would want to actually see you in person (and you her) and get to know each other a little prior to any actual commitment to makin out. Typically. Not necessarily always though. Sometimes girls you don’t know literally just walk up and start makin out with ya. 

 

Overall I’d just keep having fun with it. It’s good to ask questions, get insights, etc, but also don’t put any expectations on yourself as if you’re supposed to know anything you don’t, or have more experience than you do. Really, enjoy right where you’re at. 

 

Also just a friendly cautious reminder… we never really know who we’re actually talking to online. I’d lean towards some kind of Zoom or cam chat if I met someone online, before meeting in person. Unless you both know a few of the same people etc, where you can ask them. The cam chat is an easy next step to move to / suggest also. Careful not to take much to personally. Some people just like to flirt online without actually having any intention of meeting in person. There’s an endless variety, always hard to say. That’s part of the fun & excitement of it though, but be a pinch cautious too. We love ya and don’t wanna have to form a search party anytime soon. 😂 

 

 

 

 

 

[fopylo]

@Phil

5 minutes ago, Phil said:

Conversation naturally deepens.

That's good news, as long as I am in the flow and always know how to keep the conversation going.

7 minutes ago, Phil said:

Tease her a little about something, but careful not to be a jerk. Takes practice / experience.

I don't think I quite get it, but I believe with practice I'll improve.

10 minutes ago, Phil said:

There’s always someway you meet a girl, something that led to it, so there’s always that to initially talk about.

Kinda skimmed this part, but I really don't know anymore what to talk to her about. I've harassed those few 1-2 topics already. And again, if she is more leaning towards dtf then I don't know why I should even divert from it and bring in new topics.

13 minutes ago, Phil said:

Sounds like she’s having fun and being flirty, also of course, I assume she would want to actually see you in person (and you her) and get to know each other a little prior to any actual commitment to makin out.

This notion kinda buggles me, but also gets me curious.. maybe I should try initiating a meeting already? I think I'll start by texting her more (and not being ghosted) and then talk about meeting up. Btw, from some investigation with a friend I have a hunch she might be older than me in like a year or two 😬. But maybe I'm wrong.

16 minutes ago, Phil said:

Sometimes girls you don’t know literally just walk up and start makin out with ya. 

Talking from experience I see 😏

17 minutes ago, Phil said:

I’d lean towards some kind of Zoom or cam chat if I met someone online, before meeting in person.

Yes, so my plan before getting to see her in person was to make sort of a talk about the meeting location and practicals on the phone. Face cam is a little anxious for me lol idk. 

 

[Phil]

2 hours ago, fopylo said:

That's good news, as long as I am in the flow and always know how to keep the conversation going.

Contingency on flow is how to stay out of the flow.   Flow be’s the knower, when there’s a knower, there’s no flow. 

2 hours ago, fopylo said:

I don't think I quite get it, but I believe with practice I'll improve

For sure. Also though, all’s well already. You’ve no deficit. There’s nothing your supposed to already know. It’s supposed to be fun. 🙂

2 hours ago, fopylo said:

Kinda skimmed this part, but I really don't know anymore what to talk to her about. I've harassed those few 1-2 topics already. And again, if she is more leaning towards dtf then I don't know why I should even divert from it and bring in new topics.

Exactly 👍🏻 

2 hours ago, fopylo said:

This notion kinda buggles me, but also gets me curious.. maybe I should try initiating a meeting already? I think I'll start by texting her more (and not being ghosted) and then talk about meeting up. Btw, from some investigation with a friend I have a hunch she might be older than me in like a year or two 😬. But maybe I'm wrong.

Awesome & awesome. 

2 hours ago, fopylo said:

Talking from experience I see 😏

My friend says it happens. 

2 hours ago, fopylo said:

Yes, so my plan before getting to see her in person was to make sort of a talk about the meeting location and practicals on the phone. Face cam is a little anxious for me lol idk. 

Stop it. 

 

It’s just a screen. 

😉 

[Blessed2]

23 hours ago, fopylo said:

What? Are you serious?

Yeah, it's not like I'd behave to a girl like a good male friend of mine. It's a different way of communicating, different contexts. Likewise, a woman won't talk to guys exactly in the way she talks to her female friends.

 

Interesting. We have very different experience.

 

I do talk about the same with men and women. The only clear difference I would say that usually there's a bit more intuition, emotional expression and social clues in language & body language at play with women. But the subjects talked are really the same.

 

23 hours ago, fopylo said:

I talk quite bluntly to a friend of mine, dry text, talk about sex and relationships, talk about some drama, give high fives and bro hugs - quite normal behaviors of guys to guys. But if I behave to a woman like that it will immediately turn her off

 

Women do enjoy all these things. Though what do you mean by "blunt"? That might just be learned behaviour, "toxic masculinity" so to speak. No-one likes blunt or cold behaviour.

 

You can totally throw high fives with women. That's just friendly and playful.

 

23 hours ago, fopylo said:

Just really imagine how some male person, some famous person, rapper, acter, boxer will act to his girlfriend like one of his 'bois'.

 

🤔 You mean someone like Eminem, or Harry Styles?

 

IME gender expression / dynamic is far more fluid and flexible than it usually is conceptualized. It depends on the situation, people involved, many things. In my opinion it's best just to follow intuition and stay relaxed and not take it too seriously. It really is more like a flow than a game.