Concentration & Meditation

[noomii]

What exactly is the difference between concentration and meditation? Is meditation more important?

 

I used to only do concentration and breathwork because it felt easier with focusing on one point and I felt better during the day compared to if I would only do breath awareness meditation/breathwork.

Recently I stopped doing concentration and focused only on breath awareness meditation, because the concentration seemed shallow in a way.

The breath awareness is not giving me what I want and I feel so much boredom and frustration about it.

When I do other meditations where I'm not focused on one point, it feels like I'm not focused most of the time I sit and that I feel worse after it compared to meditations where I'm focused on one single point.

Maybe I'm trying to avoid feeling and overthinking by using concentration.

[Phil]

What’s found presently, of direct experience?

[noomii]

3 hours ago, Phil said:

What’s found presently, of direct experience?

Maybe they are the same? It just seems like concentration on one point is easier than the breath in the stomach

[Phil]

6 hours ago, noomii said:

What exactly is the difference between concentration and meditation? Is meditation more important?

Consciousness concentrates itself as the shape of a sphere, a lens, by which consciousness can experience the world it’s being. 

Thoughts arise or appear of this lens. 

The term focus points to this lens. 

 

Meditation is allowing the activity of the lens (thoughts) to come to rest. 

 

6 hours ago, noomii said:

I used to only do concentration and breathwork because it felt easier with focusing on one point and I felt better during the day compared to if I would only do breath awareness meditation/breathwork.

Recently I stopped doing concentration and focused only on breath awareness meditation, because the concentration seemed shallow in a way.

Thoughts about a second self, the self of thoughts in linear time, obscure the lens… as the lens is present-only.

 

As these thoughts are brought to rest, there seems to be the experience of ‘more’ focus and or concentration. There seems to be, from a comparative thought appearing about concentration & focus now compared to concentration & focus in a past, overlooking there aren’t two things being compared, and that it’s more a matter of to what extent the lens is presently obscured or not. 

 

6 hours ago, noomii said:

The breath awareness is not giving me what I want and I feel so much boredom and frustration about it.

The boredom and frustration might subside in the consideration, relief & relaxation, that concentration & focus are essentially being ‘done’ for ‘you’ and are not per se a doing. Rather, you, consciousness, are being the lens and therein focus. The framing that you are doing concentration and or focus, and or that there is any lack or shortage of concentration or focus might feel off in that regard. The notion that there is someone or something or even some practice which is supposed to ‘give you what you want’ might also feel off, and might point to an underlying limiting belief that there is some kind of shortage or lack or something or someone which needs to be fixed or improved. 

 

6 hours ago, noomii said:

When I do other meditations where I'm not focused on one point, it feels like I'm not focused most of the time I sit and that I feel worse after it compared to meditations where I'm focused on one single point.

Maybe I'm trying to avoid feeling and overthinking by using concentration.

It might be the ‘most of the time’ that actually feels of to ever-present consciousness, presently-only being concentration & focus. 

 

Addressing aversion, avoiding feeling, can be framed as on behalf of the sep self of thoughts. It might be simplest and easiest to acknowledge irritation / impatience, and then… pessimism and so on, up the scale. This would be an emptying via acknowledging and expressing the emotions felt, as opposed to the self referential concept that ‘you feel worse’, which is a subtle self-judgement founded on there being good & bad feeling or emotions. 

 

1 hour ago, noomii said:

Maybe they are the same? It just seems like concentration on one point is easier than the breath in the stomach

It’s hard to say. It might be easier, and it might seem easier in so far as some emotions might be newly acknowledged, allowed and felt, which can be challenging as it stands to dispel limiting self referential beliefs. While it can be challenging, it’s liberation. This is referred to as shadow work, or, bringing thoughts and emotions into the light of awareness. This feeling fully dispels beliefs and the message or guidance is then received, and interpretations are dispelled and or change accordingly. 

[nurthur11]

This is a difficult topic because it relates to senses/we call them shqisat Your senses get focused or get out of focus(adhd, fight or flight kind of thing) if you think of it in terms of mother natures made this world. Thats my 2 cents aboit tis topic, from my experiecne.

 

You can also concentrate your mind we say to put your mind into it, i mean this in the literal sense. That is very boring to do. For example, is in front of the screen you have computer now put your mind into it from the first person perspective. You can also notice what is happening while you do this and try to put your mind into that. For me this is panicking experience i rather just focus my hands or my eyes or let my self get caught. 

 

In the end it comes down to talent we say tekstin e di po goja spom shkon (i know the text but my mouth is not working/smth like that)

Edited July 3 by nurthur11

[ThePoint]

On 7/1/2024 at 12:04 PM, noomii said:

What exactly is the difference between concentration and meditation? Is meditation more important?

 

I used to only do concentration and breathwork because it felt easier with focusing on one point and I felt better during the day compared to if I would only do breath awareness meditation/breathwork.

Recently I stopped doing concentration and focused only on breath awareness meditation, because the concentration seemed shallow in a way.

The breath awareness is not giving me what I want and I feel so much boredom and frustration about it.

When I do other meditations where I'm not focused on one point, it feels like I'm not focused most of the time I sit and that I feel worse after it compared to meditations where I'm focused on one single point.

Maybe I'm trying to avoid feeling and overthinking by using concentration.

 

Concentration = Samadhi as in Sanskrit, as in single pointed - you'll never have good results focusing on the breathing sensations on your stomach. Simple reason being that the area is massive (not in an offensive way).

If you really want to work on that move from sensations in nostrils inside/outside; when that becomes easy, focus on the tip of the nose - eventually only feeling the air touching it.

Then move onto area below your nostrils and above the upper lip, when you're ready, and then things become fun because you can move into practice of insight. Generally the way the 'Universe' works starts becoming really obvious at that stage if you practice diligently.

 

Samadhi is only a part of meditation, and to answer your question - concentration and meditation are not synonymous.

[noomii]

@Phil  It sounds like a concentration practice isn't necessary but reading your reply doesn't really change what I believe.

 

If I would only focus on a concentration practice with no meditation, would I be missing something? What does a meditation practice have that concentration doesn't?

Would I miss something if I would only focus on breathwork without a regular meditation practice?

 

[Phil]

1 hour ago, noomii said:

@Phil  It sounds like a concentration practice isn't necessary but reading your reply doesn't really change what I believe.

That there is something necessary denotes an underlying unacknowledged emotion. 

Changing what you believe is a matter of comparing the belief with direct experience. 

 

1 hour ago, noomii said:

If I would only focus on a concentration practice with no meditation, would I be missing something?

No. 

 

1 hour ago, noomii said:

What does a meditation practice have that concentration doesn't?

Nothing. 

 

1 hour ago, noomii said:

Would I miss something if I would only focus on breathwork without a regular meditation practice?

No. 

[Phil]

[noomii]

On 7/25/2024 at 3:34 PM, Phil said:

I wish it was that easy

[Phil]

@noomii 

How so? What’s not easy about it? 

[noomii]

16 hours ago, Phil said:

@noomii 

How so? What’s not easy about it? 

These thoughts:

"It's not working"

"I can't relax"

"I can't focus"

"I need to focus more"

"I don't know what practice is right for me"

 

It just seems like it's not working and that I need to meditate several more hours for me to see the change I want to see.

I compare myself to others and it just seems like I'm not experiencing most of the benefits that others seem to easily experience. 

[Phil]

@noomii

When meditating and it’s noticed attention has returned to thoughts, what do you do?

[noomii]

2 hours ago, Phil said:

@noomii

When meditating and it’s noticed attention has returned to thoughts, what do you do?

I return the attention to sensation 🤷‍♀️

[Phil]

@noomii

Try - feeling breathing in the stomach. 

 

This is removing attention from thoughts, and returning it (to feeling breathing in the stomach). 

 

Do this each time it’s noticed attention has ‘went back to’ thoughts. 

 

When it’s noticed, do this lovingly, gently. Take deep relaxing breaths. 🙂

 

Never attempt to force or push through. If too uncomfortable, express to release & allow clarity. 

 

[Blessed2]

I wonder if meditation is "returning attention to feeling breathing from the stomach" etc...

 

Or if perception (hearing, seeing, feeling etc) IS meditation...

 

And 'returning attention to feeling breathing' is actually returning attention to meditation.

 

Perception is already not activity of thinking.

 

 

Perception = the world sphere?

 

 

[noomii]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

@noomii

Try - feeling breathing in the stomach. 

 

This is removing attention from thoughts, and returning it (to feeling breathing in the stomach). 

 

Do this each time it’s noticed attention has ‘went back to’ thoughts. 

 

When it’s noticed, do this lovingly, gently. Take deep relaxing breaths. 🙂

 

Never attempt to force or push through. If too uncomfortable, express to release & allow clarity. 

 

That's my current meditation, as well as deep breaths and being aware of other bodily sensations.

[Phil]

17 minutes ago, noomii said:

That's my current meditation, as well as deep breaths and being aware of other bodily sensations.

Great!

 

4 hours ago, noomii said:

"It's not working"

"I can't relax"

"I can't focus"

"I need to focus more"

"I don't know what practice is right for me"

So these are thoughts, yes? 

So when attention goes to thoughts, it’s gently returned to feeling breathing in the stomach. 

 

Make sense?

 

For beliefs, question them until they dissolve. Use a journal, and just type whatever thoughts arise. The belief(s) will untangle ‘themselves’. 

 

Just some suggestions….

For “it’s not working”, question what the belief is about… what is believed or judged to be wrong or inadequate, or in need of being changed or fixed. Accept only ‘answers’ found in direct experience. 

For “I can’t relax” & “I can’t focus”, question who the beliefs are actually about, and the true nature of the awareness aware of thoughts, and why these thoughts feel discordant. 

For “I need to focus more”, question the belief “need” directly until it’s dispelled entirely. Keep ‘drilling down’ until there is nothing.

For “I don’t know what practice is right for me”, question if there is a knower which knows there is right & wrong in direct experience by attempting to point to it. If a knower isn’t found, question if there is anything more to the direct experience of “I don’t know what practice is right for me”, than the thought, “I don’t know which practice is right foe me”. 

 

 

Also, throughout the day, breathe with the stomach rather than the lungs. 

[noomii]

2 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

I wonder if meditation is "returning attention to feeling breathing from the stomach" etc...

 

Or if perception (hearing, seeing, feeling etc) IS meditation...

 

And 'returning attention to feeling breathing' is actually returning attention to meditation.

 

Perception is already not activity of thinking.

 

 

Perception = the world sphere?

 

 

What do you mean by world sphere?

I haven't read about the spheres.

[noomii]

On 7/27/2024 at 4:29 PM, Phil said:

Great!

 

So these are thoughts, yes? 

So when attention goes to thoughts, it’s gently returned to feeling breathing in the stomach. 

 

Make sense?

 

For beliefs, question them until they dissolve. Use a journal, and just type whatever thoughts arise. The belief(s) will untangle ‘themselves’. 

 

Just some suggestions….

For “it’s not working”, question what the belief is about… what is believed or judged to be wrong or inadequate, or in need of being changed or fixed. Accept only ‘answers’ found in direct experience. 

For “I can’t relax” & “I can’t focus”, question who the beliefs are actually about, and the true nature of the awareness aware of thoughts, and why these thoughts feel discordant. 

For “I need to focus more”, question the belief “need” directly until it’s dispelled entirely. Keep ‘drilling down’ until there is nothing.

For “I don’t know what practice is right for me”, question if there is a knower which knows there is right & wrong in direct experience by attempting to point to it. If a knower isn’t found, question if there is anything more to the direct experience of “I don’t know what practice is right for me”, than the thought, “I don’t know which practice is right foe me”. 

 

 

Also, throughout the day, breathe with the stomach rather than the lungs. 

It makes sense. I guess it will get clearer if I let go of the thoughts about meditation 'outside' of the meditation practice too.

I see how it could have a lot to do with the belief that I need to be improved or fixed.

Thank you