What are the Non-Thought Features of the Mind

[Joseph Maynor]

We tend to think of the mind as encapsulating thoughts, but are there any other qualities of mind (other than thoughts) that we wouldn't really attribute to body?  In Advaita Vedanta this is referred to as "subtle Maya" as opposed to gross Maya which is the body/the mundane material external world.

 

I want to know more about the subtle Maya which contain the bits of the mind that aren't thoughts.  

[Orb]

100 percent. 

 

The Mind is the Lens sphere. It's like a concentrated sense of presence. It's what makes it feel like there's someone in here. 

 

That sense of presence is prior to thoughts, that sense of presence then appears as thoughts, further solidifying the illusion of there being someone here. 

 

The spiritual awakening often is returning to the presence prior to thoughts (the lens). This is a powerful opening.

 

Then we can inquire further, "but what is it that is feeling this powerful sense of presence that is prior to thought?". 

 

Because believe me, that sense of presence (the lens), that sense of "You" is just an appearance. 

 

Then we begin recognizing the Nothingness Feeling itself and concentrating itself into the spheres.

 

Like Nothingness, or simply.... Love 🙂. 

 

Beyond all concepts, all is Known and Unknown.

[Reena]

There's nothing like Advaita Vedanta. How would you ever know that this is truth. Who said it is truth just because some ancient guru said it like Maharshi and Nisargadatta and how do you know that these aren't mere theories of some individuals who contemplated too long and came up with something. At the end of the day people running away from Christianity want something to clutch on to as the last sliver of spiritual bread in their lives? Is it like that? I don't know. The more I hear about non duality the more I feel like it goes or takes me nowhere. It feels like an endless loop. 

 

The only thing that ever feels true is "zero limitation" and "love" and "bliss." 

 

I don't know. It's best to not over speculate on the nature of reality but to humble oneself in not knowing much. 

 

 

Edited May 26 by Reena

[Reena]

My question is - people die if they don't have food. Do people die if they don't know subtle Maya? 

Whats the point of such spiritual aspiration? Other than some mental engagement? Is this another way of feeling "feel good?" 

 

 

I think ultimate spirituality is God mindedness. Or having a mind like God. That is being ethically and morally in line with one's inner conscience that we all possess. 

 

I don't think that we need something special to become spiritual. Something external like Advaita Vedanta. I believe we're spiritual by nature already. Just that some are more spiritual than others.. Probably more emotionally connected. Just like emotional intelligence. Spiritual intelligence is probably the ability to decipher or discern right from wrong or toxic from non toxic or wise from unwise or loving from unloving. 

 

Its just the power of discernment and the power of decision. 

 

This is just my overall opinion although my opinions change over time. 

 

 

Edited May 26 by Reena

[Joseph Maynor]

7 hours ago, Reena said:

There's nothing like Advaita Vedanta. How would you ever know that this is truth. Who said it is truth just because some ancient guru said it like Maharshi and Nisargadatta and how do you know that these aren't mere theories of some individuals who contemplated too long and came up with something.

Nobody wants to actually read the spiritual enlightenment masters.  Reading is a strength of mine.  I can read all day.  There are experts in every area of life.  If you don't want to read their works or consult with someone who has, then you'll never know.  Everyone wants the easy route but it's like being cheap, it will just be a waste of time or a limited realization.  You may never see traps that you could have by slogging through the works of actual experts.  People want the easy solution in some area which mostly is to do nothing and expect great results too.  Psychedelics are kind of like this too -- all I need is "direct experience" and don't need any Jnana or reading or whatever.  It's like someone trying to recreate a wheel instead of buying a Ferrari.  The famous Indian teachers are famous for a reason -- because they identify lots of traps and do it very well.  It's funny to me, people want to learn something or get at something but they don't want to consult the actual experts in that area.  Not everyone has reading a lot as a strength, I get it.  But sometimes there's not really an equivalent shortcut though.  It's like trying to learn math by direct experience instead of consulting the best math textbooks and working through the exercises.

Edited May 26 by Joseph Maynor

[Reena]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

The famous Indian teachers are famous for a reason --

Classic error and classic trap. Lots of Indian gurus are in jail that you know nothing about and they were equally famous. I'm Indian so I know. We regularly see that in our papers. Osho was much more famous yet he wanted to start a cult. A lot of Indian gurus are like that. Don't put too much faith into anything. It's just philosophy at the end of the day. Direct experience also varies vastly between people. I can sit here and say that I experienced Christ but you won't believe. 

 

[Joseph Maynor]

24 minutes ago, Reena said:

Classic error and classic trap. Lots of Indian gurus are in jail that you know nothing about and they were equally famous. I'm Indian so I know. We regularly see that in our papers. Osho was much more famous yet he wanted to start a cult. A lot of Indian gurus are like that. Don't put too much faith into anything. It's just philosophy at the end of the day. Direct experience also varies vastly between people. I can sit here and say that I experienced Christ but you won't believe. 

Most Indian spiritualist gurus are derivatives of Shankara and Maharshi.  Except for Jesus which is a Western not an Indian issue.  I agree with what you're saying, don't get me wrong.  Right now I'm just re-integrating this stuff.  It's like a cat that discovered an old toy and is getting a thrill reintegrating the relation between it and the toy.  It's like taking a deep dive into something and enjoying it and seeing what comes of it.  I'm a deep dive kind of person.  I get interested in something and I want to take a deep dive and kind of exhaust it.  But it's not just novel integration, it's cycling back to old things and re-integrating too.  It's like revisiting an old friend but smarter or wiser this time around too.   The linear (Masculine)  vs./and the cyclical (Feminine).  I'm an explorer, I'm always testing something out and enjoying that.

Edited May 26 by Joseph Maynor

[Reena]

4 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Most Indian spiritualist gurus are derivatives of Shankara and Maharshi.  Except for Jesus which is a Western not an Indian issue.  I agree with what you're saying, don't get me wrong.  Right now I'm just re-integrating this stuff.  It's like a cat that discovered an old toy and is getting a thrill reintegrating the relation between it and the toy.  It's like taking a deep dive into something and enjoying it and seeing what comes of it.  I'm a deep dive kind of person.  I get interested in something and I want to take a deep dive and kind of exhaust it.  But it's not just novel integration, it's cycling back to old things and re-integrating too.  It's like revisiting an old friend but smarter or wiser this time around too.   The linear (Masculine)  vs./and the cyclical (Feminine).  I'm an explorer, I'm always testing something out and enjoying that.

Good for you. 

[Joseph Maynor]

I'll throw out some for consideration:

Imagining/visualizing
Intuition

Emotions/passions
Wonder

Dreams
Memory
Daydreaming
The inner voice/language/mental chatter
Monkey mind
 

Edited May 27 by Joseph Maynor

[Phil]

Gross maya is an illusion of a physical body and material world. Subtle maya is an illusion of mind, mental function or mechanics therein, like intellect, ego and memory. 

[Joseph Maynor]

From ChatGPT:

Q: What are the vasanas in Advaita Vedanta?
 

"In Advaita Vedanta, "vasanas" are subtle mental impressions or tendencies that influence a person's thoughts, emotions, and actions. Derived from the Sanskrit word meaning "desire" or "impression," vasanas are considered to be deep-seated psychological imprints formed by past actions (karma), thoughts, and experiences. These impressions persist through lifetimes and shape an individual's personality and behavior.
 

Key aspects of vasanas in Advaita Vedanta include:

• Latent Impressions: Vasanas are the underlying, often unconscious, tendencies that drive behavior. They are considered to be deeper than superficial desires and can influence one's actions and reactions without conscious awareness.
• Role in Samsara: Vasanas are fundamental in the concept of samsara, the cycle of birth, death, and rebirth. They bind the soul (atman) to the cycle of reincarnation by perpetuating desires and attachments.
• Influence on Mind and Ego: Vasanas shape the mind (manas) and the ego (ahamkara), determining how individuals perceive and interact with the world. They contribute to the formation of habits, preferences, and aversions.
• Obstacles to Liberation: In Advaita Vedanta, the ultimate goal is moksha, or liberation from the cycle of samsara. Vasanas are seen as obstacles to achieving this liberation because they reinforce the illusion of individuality and separation from the universal Self (Brahman).
• Purification Process: The spiritual practices in Advaita Vedanta, such as meditation, self-inquiry (atma vichara), and ethical living, aim to purify the mind by diminishing and eventually eliminating vasanas. This process helps in realizing the true nature of the Self, which is pure, unconditioned, and identical with Brahman.
• Chitta and Vasanas: Vasanas are stored in the chitta, the subconscious mind. The chitta is part of the fourfold inner instrument (antahkarana), which also includes the mind (manas), intellect (buddhi), and ego (ahamkara).

By understanding and transcending vasanas, practitioners of Advaita Vedanta aim to dissolve the ego, dispel ignorance (avidya), and realize their true nature as non-dual, infinite consciousness."

Edited June 4 by Joseph Maynor

[James123]

On 5/26/2024 at 9:48 AM, Joseph Maynor said:

We tend to think of the mind as encapsulating thoughts, but are there any other qualities of mind (other than thoughts) that we wouldn't really attribute to body?  In Advaita Vedanta this is referred to as "subtle Maya" as opposed to gross Maya which is the body/the mundane material external world.

 

I want to know more about the subtle Maya which contain the bits of the mind that aren't thoughts.  

Mind=Body=Maya=Anything you know=thoughts=Ego.

 

Real You= Not Knowing. 

[ivankiss]

How can you think about a non - thought feature?