Are other persons experience real?

[Phil]

1 hour ago, ConsciousDreamer666 said:

Hundreds of Hours of meditation and spiritual practice, dozens of gruelling mind broken psychedelic trips, ...etc and still the ego hasn´t gone...No, cmon, it can not be 'that simple'. Nobody believes that.

In direct experience these are thoughts which awareness is presently aware of, yes?

 

Hundreds of hours of meditation and thought attachment denotes improper technique & emotional suppression. 

 

1 hour ago, ConsciousDreamer666 said:

Even sages took years and years of spiritual practice to get somewhere real. 

That’s an assumption of details of another pov which there is no experience of, isn’t it?

There is a present experience of those thought, yes?

 

1 hour ago, ConsciousDreamer666 said:

When in my opinion, you should recognise the technique or approach 'let go of the thoughts' is not really being useful. Is not powerful enough. Is not explosive enough for clear awakening. It might be useful to lift people from depression or anxiety episodes to a minimum of well being and mindfulness. But is definetely is not working for most of us for clear and permanent liberation.

Whose opinion? 

Useful for who or what?

Not enough, for who or what?

Awareness, which is ever-present & aware?

 

“Not working for most of us” is again the presumption multiple pov are experienced & someone is speaking on behalf of multiple pov, isn’t it?

 

Liberation… from what? 

Perception?

Sensation?

Emotions?

Feeling?

 

55 minutes ago, ConsciousDreamer666 said:

But since there is doubt, there is not real absolute perception, there is not direct recognition, is just a mud of pseudo openings and dissolutions, then still questions comes up. So don´t judge me for asking questions, you guys love to dismiss absolutely every damn question with the answer 'just let go of the thoughts!'

Doubt as an emotion is guidance for thoughts. More thoughts / concepts / beliefs are not guidance for thoughts. 

 

Perception doesn’t change in accordance with whether there is doubt or not, isn’t it so?

Interpretation changes, emotion changes - but perception doesn’t, yes?

 

Is this “the fake perception”… and someone is going to find “the real perception” in a future, as a result of thinking & doing?

 

“You guys love” is again the presumption multiple pov are being experienced & compared, and someone then knows what others do and don’t love, isn’t it?

 

 

If a Scientologist is told that thetan levels & reaching Xenu are actually just thoughts / beliefs, what might they say?

 

How exactly is clarity, happiness, peace & love… a “dismissal” of obscuring thoughts?

[Enlightened Cat]

What does your experience say about things that are unreal or things that don't exist? Can you point to something that is unreal? Can you point to something that doesn't exist?

Edited January 21 by Enlightened Cat

[ConsciousDreamer666]

4 hours ago, Orb said:

I was referring to the belief that you will or must experience enlightenment, I was saying basically that will never happen. But I get it, you want to see for yourself and you will. Well, "you" won't but you know what I mean 😊.

 

I did also mention that all practices like TRE, prayer, meditation, therapy, etc. are helpful still. 

 

I don't at all experience any beliefs or discord about this experience being only "mine" or about others experience. That belief once came up a while ago and just fell away along the path. It doesn't mean my heads glowing and I'm this wise "enlightened" being, I just don't suffer from those beliefs anymore. Things get much simpler, and it is awesome don't get me wrong. 

With all due respect I think you are settling down for spiritual solace and not actual clarity. 'Discord 'etc... words you picked up from Phil. Which I still intuit he is legit/enlightened but coming from you makes me intuit also you just picked up a narrative from him. (which again, not debating is 'wrong', you might find relief/solace in it if you are going through a rough path and maybe it is useful, but I would be careful with assuming you 'got it all sort it out').

Is risk to settle down soon. Just saying. 

 

(If my intuitions are wrong and you are legit unlimited/liberated. Cool. Just ignore me  🙂 )

 

 

3 hours ago, Phil said:

By consciousness all that is meant is the consciousness right-now / already conscious. 

In accordance with consciousness, is there an all points of view, or one pov? 

 

Who or what is saying “for awareness”?

Is that a comparison of points of view?

 

Who or what is saying “for the ego”? 

Awareness?

Is awareness aware of ego?

 

Who or what’s ego? 

Awareness?

Who or what knows there are men & women?

Awareness?

 

Who or what would like to know?

Is that who or what not aware?

 

How does holding a condition or contingency reveal that which is unconditional?

 

Why not directly inspect for any actual separation right now?

How exactly are experiences supposed to lead to the present?  

 

Who or what feels?

@Phil What I am inspecting is the following, let me know if you find any incongruencies in my thinking:

 

1. I inspect why I am experiencing this POV and not my girlfriends POV
2. I afterwards realize Consciousness/Awareness is the one who actually experiences/perceives.
3. From that, of course Consciousness is indeed also experiencing my girlfriends POV.
4. I concur then that I am the one (the illusory one) who is asking the question 'Why I am not experiencing my girlfriend's POV'? Which is totally normal because as the ego-body-mind I am ConsciousDreamer666, and not my girlfriend´s.
5. I then proceed to put myself in my girlfriend's head and imagine she is also asking herself that question. 'Why I am not experiencing ConsciousDreamer666 POV?'
6. I concur, Consciousness is indeed experiencing ConsciousDreamer666 POV. Is my girlfriends illusory ego which is NOT experiencing ConsciousDreamer666. And is totally normal because that ego-female body-mind is precisely that.
7. I then realize, well, this must be then which every ego ask itself.... 'Why I am not experiencing other person POV'?
8. Since the ego ask itself this question, and assumes that the experience is having is Personal, then of course it is created the illusion of individual existence into one´s perception.

Did I just awoken logically? Lmao 

[Orb]

25 minutes ago, ConsciousDreamer666 said:

With all due respect I think you are settling down for spiritual solace and not actual clarity. 'Discord 'etc... words you picked up from Phil. Which I still intuit he is legit/enlightened but coming from you makes me intuit also you just picked up a narrative from him. (which again, not debating is 'wrong', you might find relief/solace in it if you are going through a rough path and maybe it is useful, but I would be careful with assuming you 'got it all sort it out').

Is risk to settle down soon. Just saying. 

 

(If my intuitions are wrong and you are legit unlimited/liberated. Cool. Just ignore me  🙂 )

It's understandable how it'd seem that way. After listening to someone speak for a long time we tend to pick up on their language and vice versa, it's natural. That's the nature of language, all of these words have been used before. 

 

Although, this post that I've quoted above is doing the opposite of what I suggested. It's like I brought up that the Ocean is absolute and you heard it yet again brought up the illusory drops of water (Me and Phil being enlightened/unenlightened). 

 

Enlightenment already is. There truly aren't any people that are enlightened. And paradoxically when it's seen that there aren't people who are enlightened, it begins to seem like everyone is enlightenment itself. 😇

 

Oh yea also, you have every right to be as skeptical as you want. There's no rush here on this path, it is eternal after all 🙂.

Edited January 21 by Orb

[Someone here]

It's not that complicated...

All that exists is the Self .

"Others" are yourself. 

I'm you..you are me.

The same consciousness is looking through our eyes  

This is what all spiritual traditions and gurus have taught since the dawn of time.

[Alexander]

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

 

The same consciousness is looking through our eyes  

 

Yeah right.

[James123]

On 1/19/2024 at 8:50 PM, ConsciousDreamer666 said:

I cant seem to Accept the fact that other persons have an experience. See, before It was no issue because i thought there something such as a person and a biological thing perceiving the material world. I thought, sure, this is me, and there are the others biological beings perceiving. Each biological machine is different sure.

 

But now...is clear to me that there are no biological beings perceiving stuff. There is just consciousness, passing through every being, and in that, creating an experience of individuality.

 

So basically i can not handle how is It possible that there are ACTUALLY other beings experiencing the same i am experiencing (an "illusory pov"). 

 

Infinity Love, Infinity dream. It can not be possible. No way. No fucking way.

Your imagination, as / for "yourself".

[Phil]

7 hours ago, ConsciousDreamer666 said:

What I am inspecting is the following, let me know if you find any incongruencies in my thinking:

 

1. I inspect why I am experiencing this POV and not my girlfriends POV
2. I afterwards realize Consciousness/Awareness is the one who actually experiences/perceives.
3. From that, of course Consciousness is indeed also experiencing my girlfriends POV.
4. I concur then that I am the one (the illusory one) who is asking the question 'Why I am not experiencing my girlfriend's POV'? Which is totally normal because as the ego-body-mind I am ConsciousDreamer666, and not my girlfriend´s.
5. I then proceed to put myself in my girlfriend's head and imagine she is also asking herself that question. 'Why I am not experiencing ConsciousDreamer666 POV?'
6. I concur, Consciousness is indeed experiencing ConsciousDreamer666 POV. Is my girlfriends illusory ego which is NOT experiencing ConsciousDreamer666. And is totally normal because that ego-female body-mind is precisely that.
7. I then realize, well, this must be then which every ego ask itself.... 'Why I am not experiencing other person POV'?
8. Since the ego ask itself this question, and assumes that the experience is having is Personal, then of course it is created the illusion of individual existence into one´s perception.

Who’s thinking?

 

7 hours ago, ConsciousDreamer666 said:

I still intuit he is legit/enlightened

This seems to be the prevailing belief. That there are separate selves & some become enlightened. The cup is still too full of conjecture to hear anything being said here. 

[Someone here]

@Phil what are you doing? 

[Alexander]

50 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Phil what are you doing? 

Yeah @Phillost himself.

[Someone here]

@Alexander He and himself would be two .

[Alexander]

5 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Alexander He and himself would be two .

Hahahaha🤣

[Phil]

@Someone here

Three. 

[Phil]

On 1/21/2024 at 12:08 AM, ConsciousDreamer666 said:

With all due respect I think you are settling down for spiritual solace and not actual clarity. 'Discord 'etc... words you picked up from Phil. Which I still intuit he is legit/enlightened but coming from you makes me intuit also you just picked up a narrative from him. (which again, not debating is 'wrong', you might find relief/solace in it if you are going through a rough path and maybe it is useful, but I would be careful with assuming you 'got it all sort it out').

Is risk to settle down soon. Just saying. 

 

(If my intuitions are wrong and you are legit unlimited/liberated. Cool. Just ignore me  🙂 )

What you’re saying someone else is experiencing is actually what you’re experiencing. 

https://www.actualityofbeing.com/what-is-projection

 

On 1/21/2024 at 12:08 AM, ConsciousDreamer666 said:

 

@Phil What I am inspecting is the following, let me know if you find any incongruencies in my thinking:

 

1. I inspect why I am experiencing this POV and not my girlfriends POV
2. I afterwards realize Consciousness/Awareness is the one who actually experiences/perceives.
3. From that, of course Consciousness is indeed also experiencing my girlfriends POV.
4. I concur then that I am the one (the illusory one) who is asking the question 'Why I am not experiencing my girlfriend's POV'? Which is totally normal because as the ego-body-mind I am ConsciousDreamer666, and not my girlfriend´s.
5. I then proceed to put myself in my girlfriend's head and imagine she is also asking herself that question. 'Why I am not experiencing ConsciousDreamer666 POV?'
6. I concur, Consciousness is indeed experiencing ConsciousDreamer666 POV. Is my girlfriends illusory ego which is NOT experiencing ConsciousDreamer666. And is totally normal because that ego-female body-mind is precisely that.
7. I then realize, well, this must be then which every ego ask itself.... 'Why I am not experiencing other person POV'?
8. Since the ego ask itself this question, and assumes that the experience is having is Personal, then of course it is created the illusion of individual existence into one´s perception.

The presumption of egocentric consciousness is of course, that there is an ego.

 

“The thinker” of “my thinking”, “the knower” of “what I know”. 

“The one” that realizes consciousness / awareness and or experiences / perceives. 

“The one” that knows there is ‘my girlfriend’ & ’my girlfriend’s pov’, and knows consciousness is experiencing ‘it’ (her pov).

”The one” that knows there is an illusory one, asking questions.

”The one” that is separate of, and concurs with, consciousness. 

“The one” that knows there is an “ego-body-mind”, a “ConsciousDreamer666”, “my girlfriend”, “my girlfriend’s illusory ego” and an “ego-female body-mind”. 

“The one” for whom “I then proceed to put myself in my girlfriend’s head and imagine” is not an apparent thought. 

“The one” who knows pov is that of a person’s.

”The one” who knows there is an ego, asking itself questions… “the one” for whom these are not apparent thoughts.

“The one” who knows there is an ego which assumes.

“The one” who knows individual existence is an illusion created in one’s perception.  

On 1/21/2024 at 12:08 AM, ConsciousDreamer666 said:

Did I just awoken logically? Lmao 

“The one” who knows there is logic, and “awakening logically”. 

 

By ‘the cup is full’, all that’s meant is what’s being said isn’t being heard as it doesn’t fit into the cup which is already full of all that is “known” (believed). Put another way, truth doesn’t fit in belief. The underlying belief is that there are separate selves (which awaken / become enlightened). 

 

“Are other persons experience real?” arises from the presumption “I am a person which experiences” / “there are people”. Then other people is just switched with ‘other beings’. 

 

POV, the lens-sphere, is apparent & not illusory.

”The one” who “knows”, is illusory. 

[Phil]

On 1/20/2024 at 7:25 PM, ConsciousDreamer666 said:

When in my opinion, you should recognise the technique or approach 'let go of the thoughts' is not really being useful. Is not powerful enough. Is not explosive enough for clear awakening. It might be useful to lift people from depression or anxiety episodes to a minimum of well being and mindfulness. But is definetely is not working for most of us for clear and permanent liberation.

 

I just think Is just doesn´t cover everything that is needed for clear realisation. And I feel you guys are not acknowledging this facts. 

So to speak, you’re deeply being sold a lie & believing it my friend. In terms of well-being, the sooner this is noticed the better. These “facts” are the thoughts referred to, and due to the prevailing belief, this isn’t even noticed. Again, this is projection. “Not working for most of us” means not supporting my belief. 

 

It’s like Pepsi. Seems great in the beginning, in the celebrity endorsements & ads, and later (so to speak) you find yourself struggling with well-being & letting it go. 

[ConsciousDreamer666]

@James123 @Phil  Well, I do take all of my posts back. I finally awoken and realize all of my posts were bullshit.

 

Awakening to reality is dissolving completely in the present moment where no physical boundary between body and reality is experienced. Therefore, sense of self completely being gone. Existing as one wave of infinity, empty of ideas, maps or filosofies. Completely surrendering the mind and staying in Reality, which is this experience. 

[James123]

4 hours ago, ConsciousDreamer666 said:

@James123 @Phil  Well, I do take all of my posts back. I finally awoken and realize all of my posts were bullshit.

 

Awakening to reality is dissolving completely in the present moment where no physical boundary between body and reality is experienced. Therefore, sense of self completely being gone. Existing as one wave of infinity, empty of ideas, maps or filosofies. Completely surrendering the mind and staying in Reality, which is this experience. 

Well done brother. Surrendering is the key.

[Phil]

12 hours ago, ConsciousDreamer666 said:

@James123 @Phil  Well, I do take all of my posts back. I finally awoken and realize all of my posts were bullshit.

Totally. 

 

12 hours ago, ConsciousDreamer666 said:

 

Awakening to reality is dissolving completely in the present moment where no physical boundary between body and reality is experienced. Therefore, sense of self completely being gone. Existing as one wave of infinity, empty of ideas, maps or filosofies. Completely surrendering the mind and staying in Reality, which is this experience. 

Uh, no. 

[Alexander]

On 2/1/2024 at 2:17 PM, Phil said:

Totally. 

 

Were you referring to yourself because you like to take position of all knowing.

 

On 2/1/2024 at 2:17 PM, Phil said:

 

Uh, no. 

He Realised Self is Infinite so Yes!!

[Phil]

28 minutes ago, Alexander said:

Were you referring to yourself because you like to take position of all knowing.

I = myself. 

 

28 minutes ago, Alexander said:

 

He Realised Self is Infinite so Yes!!

So there’s infinite and he? It’s not he-realization brother, it’s self-realization.