What am I missing in terms of relationships

[Kevin]

So I noticed that socializing is often a less than joyful experience. I desire more relationships and connections in my life. However it seems like I often feel resistance to talking to people. And when I say that it’s social anxiety I’m over simplifying it. There’s gotta be a reason as to why socializing and forming new relationships is less than joyful. There’s gotta be a reason that my body isn’t behaving like a social butterfly. There’s gotta be a reason it seems like a drag even though precisely what I want is more connection with others.

[Phil]

You’re not missing anything. 

What are you sharing or offering?

[Joseph Maynor]

The thing I would say here that I think 99.99% of people don't realize is that even when you're alone you experience relation with yourself.  I don't know why people don't notice this.  But this is like a relationship that sits up under all relationships - sort of.  But I think you can feel a relation with yourself and perceive it too.  What is that?  Well, that's the question!  But when this relation is good, you're good no matter what happens to be occurring in awareness.  I think to the extent that one can find that, that solves a lot of problems, but on some level things are worked out by age and experience too.  When I was in my 20's I was not a happy guy.   I don't know what could have made me happier at that point.  I was stuck in the human exclusively at that time.  I wasn't exposed to different narratives about the self yet.  That didn't happen for me until my late 30's.  But not everyone has access to all information.  That hasn't always been the case.  It wasn't for me when I was younger.  Now people have all information at their fingertips from age 8 to 80.   The Internet wasn't even a thing until I was in college.  The first iPhone wasn't released until I was out of college.  People are taking for granted how easy it is nowadays to access any kind of information for self-improvement or whatever else ails ya.  Go do it!  There's no excuse anymore.  You can't say you didn't know.  It's not an issue of knowing it's an issue of doing.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Joseph Maynor

[Kevin]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

You’re not missing anything. 

What are you sharing or offering?

Idk what I have to share or offer at the moment. Maybe there is some seeking still happening in the sense that I will feel less than great and I’m looking to relationships as the solution. Instead of thinking what I have to offer.

 

And actually I do have a lot to offer. But my thoughts lately have been going to how things could go wrong so maybe I’ll let those thoughts go.

 

Maybe I just need some social momentum as well. Today I’ve been feeling a little stiff. A good analogy is if you have surgery done and you are recovering for a few weeks. When you are done recovering, the first run you go on you’ll feel stiff. I kind of feel the same way lately in terms of relating to others. I just feel kind of stiff.

[Kevin]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

The thing I would say here that I think 99.99% of people don't realize is that even when you're alone you experience relation with yourself.  I don't know why people don't notice this.  But this is like a relationship that sits up under all relationships - sort of.  But I think you can feel a relation with yourself and perceive it too.  What is that?  Well, that's the question!  But when this relation is good, you're good no matter what happens to be occurring in awareness.  I think to the extent that one can find that, that solves a lot of problems, but on some level things are worked out by age and experience too.  When I was in my 20's I was not a happy guy.   I don't know what could have made me happier at that point.  I was stuck in the human exclusively at that time.  I wasn't exposed to different narratives about the self yet.  That didn't happen for me until my late 30's.  But not everyone has access to all information.  That hasn't always been the case.  It wasn't for me when I was younger.  Now people have all information at their fingertips from age 8 to 80.   The Internet wasn't even a thing until I was in college.  The first iPhone wasn't released until I was out of college.  People are taking for granted how easy it is nowadays to access any kind of information for self-improvement or whatever else ails ya.  Go do it!  There's no excuse anymore.  You can't say you didn't know.  It's not an issue of knowing it's an issue of doing.

Yeah maybe my internal relationship could be better so I’m not seeking happiness in others 

[Phil]

@Kevin

Is it that you’re missing something, there is social anxiety, socializing is a less than joyful experience, there is resistance to talking to people, the body isn’t behaving properly, you do or will feel less than great, there is right & wrong and you know what’s right and what’s wrong, and that what you actually feel like is stiff, and you don’t know what you have to share, and there has to be reasons… or is it that these thoughts aren’t true, are beliefs, and these beliefs aren’t resonating with you, and aren’t resonating with manifesting the desires?

 

Put another way, are you expecting feeling to line up with these thoughts?

 

What would aligning thought with feeling sound like?

 

What are some thoughts about these topics that resonate?

 

Are you eating a clean diet?

 

Meditating daily to allow the activity of thinking to come to rest, and feeling to be more pronounced?

 

 

Are these desires for the experience of… or on behalf of a second or separate self?

Such as to make a separate self whole, happy etc?

Maybe worthy, valid or enough?

A separate self which is aware, conscious?

[Kevin]

6 hours ago, Phil said:

@Kevin

Is it that you’re missing something, there is social anxiety, socializing is a less than joyful experience, there is resistance to talking to people, the body isn’t behaving properly, you do or will feel less than great, there is right & wrong and you know what’s right and what’s wrong, and that what you actually feel like is stiff, and you don’t know what you have to share, and there has to be reasons… or is it that these thoughts aren’t true, are beliefs, and these beliefs aren’t resonating with you, and aren’t resonating with manifesting the desires?

 

Put another way, are you expecting feeling to line up with these thoughts?

 

Spot on. I realize I was trying to justify the beliefs about stiffness etc. and then looking for the solution to stiffness.

6 hours ago, Phil said:

What would aligning thought with feeling sound like?

 

probably moving on. Not worrying about stiffness and other beliefs.

6 hours ago, Phil said:

What are some thoughts about these topics that resonate?

 

I don’t know. Maybe I can meet people and make friends.

6 hours ago, Phil said:

Are you eating a clean diet?

 

mostly yes.

6 hours ago, Phil said:

Meditating daily to allow the activity of thinking to come to rest, and feeling to be more pronounced?

 

no I’m meditating rarely.

6 hours ago, Phil said:

 

Are these desires for the experience of… or on behalf of a second or separate self?

Such as to make a separate self whole, happy etc?

Maybe worthy, valid or enough?

A separate self which is aware, conscious?

Yes. I guess most desires are on behalf of a separate self.

[Phil]

@Kevin

If the term social anxiety is oversimplifying it, what is the it which is being oversimplified?

 

Also if the term social anxiety is over complicating it, what is the it being over complicated?

 

What is the underlying emotion? 
 

Would it be easier for someone of wealth or someone of very modest means to experience that they can’t have what they are wanting? 

[Mandy]

Why are awkward interactions bad/unwanted? Isn't that the real fear, not the people?

 

It might be helpful to go through the emotion of blame towards society, connect the dots, why are pets so popular right now? why are so many people born autistic? why was Napoleon Dynamite such a successful and hilarious movie? Why is awkwardness funny when it isn't our's (we don't own it)?  Because people want to escape the judgement of the awkwardness and just be free to be awkward, and so ironically the disallowance of awkwardness IS the awkwardness, innocently self imposed. 

 

Also it takes two to awkward tango. If you have an awkward interaction it's not all on you, it's co-created. Takes some pressure off. 🤷‍♀️

[Kevin]

4 hours ago, Phil said:

@Kevin

If the term social anxiety is oversimplifying it, what is the it which is being oversimplified?

 

I want social interaction. I am afraid because I think that I’m needy and not being cool enough. From that lense socializing seems like a drag

4 hours ago, Phil said:

Also if the term social anxiety is over complicating it, what is the it being over complicated?

 

loneliness. And if I were to say that like it’s an emotion on the scale I would say I feel insecurity when I believe that being by my self makes me a loser and people won’t want to hang out with me.

4 hours ago, Phil said:

What is the underlying emotion? 

 

insecurity and guilt.

4 hours ago, Phil said:

Would it be easier for someone of wealth or someone of very modest means to experience that they can’t have what they are wanting? 

I’m not sure what you mean?

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Kevin said:

I want social interaction. I am afraid because I think that I’m needy and not being cool enough. From that lense socializing seems like a drag

Is the interpretations & discord ever experienced when at home / while or when socializing isn’t experienced? 

 

1 hour ago, Kevin said:

loneliness. And if I were to say that like it’s an emotion on the scale I would say I feel insecurity when I believe that being by my self makes me a loser and people won’t want to hang out with me.

1 hour ago, Kevin said:

insecurity and guilt.

Fullness & wholeness (happiness) isn’t found in concepts / thoughts / thinking, but is what’s appearing as concepts. It’s like feeling is saying security is right here, or, I am it!

 

When meditation brings discordant interpretations up & out, it’s working. When awareness is aware of discordant  interpretations they’re released. When the interpretations are identified with, believed to be ‘me’, they’re held.

 

Also, might seem counterintuitive to certain interpretations that meditation releases, as in is an allowing or natural happening… and there isn’t doing, solving or figuring out involved.  

 

1 hour ago, Kevin said:

I’m not sure what you mean?

Aligning thoughts with feeling. As in one can’t hold discordant interpretations and feel good (not obscure oneself) simultaneously. It’s like putting your hand on the stove expecting there not to be a burning sensation. But again, when the interpretation of ‘it’s me’ is added, it’s a rationalization. Without the ‘me’ there’s a hand, a stove, and the discordant emotion. No thinking or concepts are needed. 

 

Just as a consideration, maybe a thought experiment… which would be more likely to let what they want (for feeling to align to thought) go, a wealthy person, or a not so wealthy person? 

[Kevin]

3 hours ago, Mandy said:

Why are awkward interactions bad/unwanted? Isn't that the real fear, not the people?

 

Ah, so the fear is not of the awkwardness. It’s the resistance to an awkward situation happening.

 

I think that’s spot on because back when I had tik tok I used to really like this one guys videos. In his videos he went up to random people In Walmart and pretended to know them. his videos were super awkward but also really funny.

3 hours ago, Mandy said:

It might be helpful to go through the emotion of blame towards society, connect the dots, why are pets so popular right now? why are so many people born autistic? why was Napoleon Dynamite such a successful and hilarious movie? Why is awkwardness funny when it isn't our's (we don't own it)?  Because people want to escape the judgement of the awkwardness and just be free to be awkward, and so ironically the disallowance of awkwardness IS the awkwardness, innocently self imposed. 

 

I’m curious about all that. I have no idea why pets are popular and why so many people are born autistic.

3 hours ago, Mandy said:

Also it takes two to awkward tango. If you have an awkward interaction it's not all on you, it's co-created. Takes some pressure off. 🤷‍♀️

That’s hella true. Thanks for pointing that out.

[Kevin]

6 hours ago, Phil said:

Is the interpretations & discord ever experienced when at home / while or when socializing isn’t experienced? 

 

Yes. I have been alone much of today and I was experiencing the discord for most of the day.

6 hours ago, Phil said:

Fullness & wholeness (happiness) isn’t found in concepts / thoughts / thinking, but is what’s appearing as concepts. It’s like feeling is saying security is right here, or, I am it!

 

Gotcha

6 hours ago, Phil said:

When meditation brings discordant interpretations up & out, it’s working. When awareness is aware of discordant  interpretations they’re released. When the interpretations are identified with, believed to be ‘me’, they’re held.

 

The instinct or desire to solve it is quite sticky. But I see what you’re saying. When interpretations that don’t feel good come up, it’s not about me.

6 hours ago, Phil said:

Also, might seem counterintuitive to certain interpretations that meditation releases, as in is an allowing or natural happening… and there isn’t doing, solving or figuring out involved.  

 

Aligning thoughts with feeling. As in one can’t hold discordant interpretations and feel good (not obscure oneself) simultaneously. It’s like putting your hand on the stove expecting there not to be a burning sensation. But again, when the interpretation of ‘it’s me’ is added, it’s a rationalization. Without the ‘me’ there’s a hand, a stove, and the discordant emotion. No thinking or concepts are needed. 

 

gotcha. No need to solve or figure out.

6 hours ago, Phil said:

Just as a consideration, maybe a thought experiment… which would be more likely to let what they want (for feeling to align to thought) go, a wealthy person, or a not so wealthy person? 

I don’t know. My first instinct would be that wealth has nothing to do with it. What do you think?

[Phil]

4 hours ago, Kevin said:

I don’t know. My first instinct would be that wealth has nothing to do with it. What do you think?

Wealth as in money or as in happiness? 

[Reena]

26 minutes ago, Phil said:

Wealth as in money or as in happiness? 

Isn't wealth the ultimate source of happiness? 

 

[Phil]

@Reena

How so?

[Reena]

7 minutes ago, Phil said:

@Reena

How so?

How not? 

[Phil]

@Reena

That anything can lead to yourself is indicative of discordant rumination. The lens deprived of meditation, introspection and acknowledgment of emotions is like a ship lost at see amid an illusory search for its own keel. 

[Reena]

4 minutes ago, Phil said:

@Reena

That anything can lead to yourself is indicative of discordant rumination. The lens deprived of meditation, introspection and acknowledgment of emotions is like a ship lost at see amid an illusory search for its own keel. 

But emotions must have a source. Why should that source be invalid. 

[Phil]

9 minutes ago, Reena said:

But emotions must have a source. Why should that source be invalid. 

No one said it is. 

 

Meditate, Introspect.

 

Let pointless conceptualizing, twisting & projecting go in exchange for actually finding out.