Is attachment the root cause of suffering?

[Mandy]

33 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Not sure what is the connotation of "love " implied here . But yeah ..enjoyment ..pleasure..something you get a kick of it (a high ).. like toys in case of  children. For me personally if I can't afford buying cigarettes for just a week I go mad .so it's basically the same as addiction.

 

But not affording cigarettes is not enjoying a cigarette, it's a thought about not having what one wants. 

[Alexander]

14 minutes ago, Mandy said:

But not affording cigarettes is not enjoying a cigarette, it's a thought about not having what one wants. 

But thought and real thing are very different.I know how nicotine withdrawals feels like, off course you get mad.

[Phil]

18 hours ago, Someone here said:

What about physical pain ? If me knee hurts . .what does believing thoughts got to do with it 🤔? 

I didn’t say that it did, but loa can be explored.

 

Pain is localized. You can point to where it is. 

Suffering is non-local. Can’t be pointed to. 

 

18 hours ago, Someone here said:

It must have a source ..the Buddha said desire is the cause of suffering. And that's basically correct.  Imagine the degree of unconditional bliss you can feel if you dropped every single wish of yours and just surrendered your life completely to the whim of the universe. 

Indeed. 🥰  Maybe ‘desire is suffering’, vs is the cause of.

 

If happiness is believed to be caused, created, obtained, etc… then happiness is believed to be in a future, as a result or outcome of doing and or thinking. 

That is thinking… and that thinking is the obscuring of - happiness. 

 

The simplest way to think of it is, if we must, is… 

Happiness experiences… desires.

 

Desires are essentially preferences. Tiny. Fleeting. They change. They come & go. They’re as diverse as snowflakes, and imo that is awesome. Beautiful. Perfect. 

 

Happiness is the snow. 

 

When desire(s) is ‘held’ as leading to Happiness… that is suffering. Misery. Anguish.

Thoughts in accordance with that ‘line of thinking’ or paradigm are felt as, discordant. 

But, one can convince another nonetheless, if one allows the convincing. 

 

18 hours ago, Someone here said:

Yes there are some thoughts . Like for example I'm  really really struggling in university . I don't like the major . I'm forced to study and memorise shit that I'm completely uninterested in . That's with 100% honesty is why I made this thread . Because I failed in the midterm exam and I have to re-take the entire fucking course again . 

Idk if you can give me career advice or not 

That is the conjecture about happiness & desire(s) (burning your karma) etc… playing out. It’s obviously not working. It’ll soon be obvious it comes from confusion as it relates to the separate self of thought, and more so that the guidance was & is always enough. 

 

You asked a great question recently about ‘do I be at peace with what is, now, or focused on what could be / making changes’ (or something very close to that). 

 

The answer is both, and more so that ‘both’ are actually one and the same. That question arises from putting desire before happiness, believing Happiness isn’t you and is in a future…. While happiness is like the electricity and desire is like the vacuum. You can put the vacuum before the electricity… and vacuum… and believe it’s “working”… but… it actually isn’t (and that’s felt). 

 

In that Light…

18 hours ago, Someone here said:

Yes there are some thoughts . Like for example I'm  really really struggling in university . I don't like the major . I'm forced to study and memorise shit that I'm completely uninterested in . That's with 100% honesty is why I made this thread . Because I failed in the midterm exam and I have to re-take the entire fucking course again . 

Idk if you can give me career advice or not 

The focus is on the separate self of thought. I bet ‘you’re thinkin’ ‘but that’s my situation, it’s true!’… ‘I am being honest!’.

 

It’s not really that you’re being dishonest. It’s that you’ve been mislead in a deeply devious & maniacal way and haven’t seen this yet / there’s no clarity yet. It’s very easy to feel the point is you feeling the happiness that you are and consciously creating. I want the dream job for you, the dream girlfriend / wife, the dream income, the dream house, the dream car, amazing experiences. Whatever you dream up.  

 

The more the separate self of thought is noticed, the more attention is shifted from self referential thoughts, to the emotion actually being experienced, and the more aversion is noticed, and non-aversion is employed - the more Happiness is unfettered, and preferences manifest. 

 

Back to ‘what is now, or focus on later / changes’?

Relaxing, de-contracting the body, allowing the these thoughts to be felt as they are… allowing emotions experienced to be acknowledged, respecting the guidance…. Non-aversion…. This is all being present, unfettering presence. This is non-aversion from what is. If there is discord, being presence (Happiness) via unfettering comes first. Not coincidently, this is the baked in design of the emotional scale. Via expression, all discordant thoughts, all the gripes, judgements, complaints, all the not-good-enough’ s… are emptied out. Then there is mistaking pessimism as ‘I’m bored’, overlooking boredom. Then there’s contentment. 

 

From contentment on, all discordant thoughts have been - not suppressed - but rather - expressed - emptied out. Guess what fills in what is emptied? The true nature - Happiness. What’s already the case. Then thoughts which resonate naturally arise and emotions higher on the scale than contentment are felt. Like, for realz. This Happiness is like the wind in your sails. As Rumi said, ‘Choose love. Choose love. Life without this beautiful love is nothing but a burden’.  “Choose” is a bit of a shorthand expression. Empty out first, is more of a longhand expression. 

 

So what I’m suggesting is more about changing the way you’re going about life, and not so much advice on what to do specifically. I would not want to give you an impression that I know better than the guidance, which is always there for ‘you’, and always 100%, absolutely, on board with exactly what you want. It’s unconditional! It’s your biggest fan! It’s like ‘I Got You Bro let’s co-create!’.

 

Specifically… in spite of world-wide conditioning… there is absolutely nothing wrong with you, nor concentration or focus. What’s ‘getting in your way’ is discord / emotional discord. This can’t be ‘solved’, or ‘figured out’. Understanding has nothing to do with it. There’s nothing wrong whatsoever with the guidance, and it’s always available. 

 

18 hours ago, Someone here said:

Yes there are some thoughts . Like for example I'm  really really struggling in university . I don't like the major . I'm forced to study and memorise shit that I'm completely uninterested in . That's with 100% honesty is why I made this thread . Because I failed in the midterm exam and I have to re-take the entire fucking course again . 

Idk if you can give me career advice or not 

You are fortunate to be able to attend university, in the sense, that could be appreciated. Who’s paying for it? They could be appreciated. You are the benefactor - you get to feel the appreciation. Not - “I’m forced to study”. Acknowledge the discord of that attitude, outlook, framing, interpretation. Don’t expect feeling to change, it’s perfect. It’s never going to change. Change the attitude, outlook, framing, interpretation. (Alignment with the guidance). You really think Love is dumb or doesn’t know what you want, or isn’t guiding you to it? Come on man. Humble down a few pegs brother and get real.

 

Ok, you don’t prefer the major you started out with. Ok. Not a problem. Happens all the time. What also intrinsically happens is - from experiencing, realizing what you don’t prefer - you now know something more about what you do prefer. Focus. On. That. Make it easy - write it on your dreamboard, and it shall be. 

 

Just gonna rip the band aid off here - there’s no you studying, memorizing, being forced, etc. There are those thoughts. That is rumination. Underlying the rumination is emotional discord. This all derives of the conjecture / having listened, believed, and engrained it. The Happiness & desire mishap is just one example, one reference of many, which constitute a bigger picture. Not acknowledging this is the case, is hanging on to all the emotional discord therein.

 

“I failed” - so harsh man. If you’re still breathing and livin you have not failed. You experienced. You learned.  So what you have to take it again. Do you really believe you know best, better than the guidance? Listen to it now. What is it ‘saying’ about these matters? Here’s what I’m suggesting, and you tell me if it’s on the same page…

 

You can do it. You’re capable. You can find alignment. You can go forward with God at your back. That’s a whole new ballgame. You can express & empty, you can feel contentment and peace, and therein you can enjoy effortless focus and concentration, and you can experience passion, eagerness and enthusiasm. You can allow this.

 

You can actually enjoy the content. You can take interest in it. 

 

As you do, you can write anything & everything that comes to mind, in your enjoying of it, on your dreamboard. Maybe you do end up changing majors. No problem! 

 

If you want practical help with study methods, make a thread. Let it all be easier by allowing. 

 

18 hours ago, Someone here said:

Yes . So ?...

When you really get honest… all you actually care about is feeling great. This is not some fluke. This is not by accident. Guidance brother. Connect the dots. 

It does not behoove you to be flippant about this. 

 

18 hours ago, Someone here said:

Right now in my life all that matters is graduating college and making income ASAP.

I get it. But it doesn’t matter more than allowing the nature of your being, right now. 

If & when it does, you’re employing the desire first Happiness second mishap again. 

Will likely take a little time to untangle that. I mean, it’s Happiness we’re talking about, your eternal nature. But that’s ok! It’s fine! You can literally enjoy the untangling and unfolding! 

 

You can ‘make income’ too. No problem. There’s been some aversion. Now there’s going to be non-aversion. Allowing communion. Allowing the guidance. Plugging the vacuum in first… and then vacuuming. Alignment. Sanity! Use the dreamboard. Hone in on the adding of smaller steps aspect. If you go the route of getting a job for example, literally write on the board ‘turn in one application’. Emptying out today. Relax. Allow the electricity. Then tomorrow, turn in one application - and then celebrate that like you just won the World Series. Seriously. Celebrate the small victories and feel the joy - but - careful not to again believe that the Happiness, the joy, is a product of or result of an accomplishment. Just feel Good to feel Good. This is getting momentum going, and you can do it, and you will love it. 

 

18 hours ago, Someone here said:

If its always OK then my point holds .

You can have all the ‘points’ brother. 

 

18 hours ago, Someone here said:

In my experience there is good and bad .

Yes. Same here. Thoughts. 

[Someone here]

55 minutes ago, Mandy said:

But not affording cigarettes is not enjoying a cigarette, it's a thought about not having what one wants. 

Yes .that's obvious as hell. 

What follows from that? because you didn't reinvent the wheel here .

[Someone here]

37 minutes ago, Phil said:

Pain is localized. You can point to where it is. 

Suffering is non-local. Can’t be pointed to. 

Yeah so pain is experienced sometimes .how can it be related to thoughts ?

38 minutes ago, Phil said:

Indeed. 🥰 

 

If happiness is believed to be caused, created, obtained, etc… then happiness is believed to be in a future, as a result or outcome of doing and or thinking. 

That is thinking… and that thinking is the obscuring of - happiness. 

 

The simplest way to think of it is, if we must, is… 

Happiness experiences… desires.

 

Desires are essentially preferences. Tiny. Fleeting. They change. They come & go. They’re as diverse as snowflakes, and imo that is awesome. Beautiful. Perfect. 

Happiness is the snow. 

 

When desire(s) is ‘held’ as leading to Happiness… that is suffering. Misery. Anguish.

Thought in accordance with that line of thinking are felt as, discordant. 

But, one can convince another nonetheless, if one allows the convincing. 

I resonate with this .

The most effective way to get to enjoy true happiness and inner peace in the future is to build the habit of having inner peace and happiness in the present..right here right now.
The vice versa is also true: sacrificing inner peace now for the sake of the imagined future tends to lead to an unhappy future too.

You are always in the presen...meaning the here and now. It is only ever here and it is only ever now. Thus..if you build a habit of valuing the future over the now.. and thereby choose to lack inner peace in the now..yyou always lack the happiness of inner peace because you always be in the now.

41 minutes ago, Phil said:

That is the conjecture about happiness & desire(s) (burning your karma) etc… playing out. It’s obviously not working. It’ll soon be obvious it comes from confusion as it relates to the separate self of thought. 

 

You asked a great question recently about ‘do I be at peace with what is, now, or focused on what could be / making changes’ (or something very close to that). 

 

The answer is both, and more so that ‘both’ are actually one and the same. That question arises from putting desire before happiness…. While happiness is like the electricity and desire is like the vacuum. You can put the vacuum before the electricity… and vacuum… and believe it’s “working”… but… it ain’t. 

 

In that Light…

Great analogy  👍 .

Thanks 😊. 

42 minutes ago, Phil said:

It’s not really that I think you’re being dishonest. It’s that you’ve been mislead in a deeply maniacal way and haven’t seen this yet / there’s no clarity yet. I could bullshit you and make it sound pretty, but I’m just being straight with you. It’s very easy for me to see and the point is you feeling the happiness that you are and consciously creating. I want the dream job for you, the dream girlfriend / wife, the dream income, the dream house, the dream car, amazing experiences

Thanks . Can you answer me why I can't get those things as soon as possible?  Why do I have to suffer and spend time and energy to achieve my goals ..? Why is reality/life structured this way ? Why is god such a butthole?

45 minutes ago, Phil said:

So what I’m suggesting is more about changing the way you’re going about life, and not so much advice on what to do specifically. I would not want to give you an impression that I know better the guidance, which is always there for you, and always 100%, absolutely, on board with exactly what you want. It’s unconditional! It’s your biggest fan! It’s like ‘I Got You Bro now let’s co-create!’.

I don't feel the guidance is there with me .

48 minutes ago, Phil said:

Ok, you don’t prefer the major you started out with. Ok. Not a problem. Happens all the time. What also intrinsically happens is - from experiencing, realizing what you don’t prefer - you now know something more about what you do prefer. Focus. On. That. Make it easy - write it on your dreamboard, and it shall be. 

OK so change my major .got it .

49 minutes ago, Phil said:

I failed” - so harsh man. If you’re still breathing and livin you have not failed. You experienced. You learned.  So what you have to take it again. Do you really believe you know best, better than the guidance? Listen to it now. What is it ‘saying’ about these matters? Here’s what I’m suggesting, and you tell me if it’s on the same page…

It is likely that Maslow's hierarchy of needs which range from the physiological to the social and those of self actualisation come into play. Each person is unique but everyone has certain basic needs. I don't know how people who are homeless manage to endure and it must involve a lot of resilience.

50 minutes ago, Phil said:

You can do it. You’re capable. You can find alignment. You can go forward with God at your back. That’s a whole new ballgame. You can express & empty, you can feel contentment and peace, and therein you can enjoy effortless focus and concentration, and you can experience passion, eagerness and enthusiasm. You can allow this.

 

You can actually enjoy the content. You can take interest in it. 

 

As you do, you can write anything & everything that comes to mind, in your enjoying of it, on your dreamboard. Maybe you do end up changing majors. No problem! 

 

If you want practical help with study methods, make a thread. Let it all be easier by allowing. 

Thank you for the encouraging words  🙏 

That helped me a lil bit to feel better .

52 minutes ago, Phil said:

You can ‘make income’ too. No problem. There’s been some aversion. Now there’s going to be non-aversion. Allowing communion. Allowing the guidance. Plugging the vacuum in first… and then vacuuming. Alignment. Sanity! Use the dreamboard. Hone in on the adding of smaller steps aspect. If you go the route of getting a job for example, literally write on the board ‘turn in one application’. Emptying out today. Relax. Allow the electricity. Then tomorrow, turn in one application - and then celebrate that like you just won the World Series. Seriously. Celebrate the small victories and feel the joy - but - careful not to again believe that the Happiness, the joy, is a product of or result of an accomplishment. Just feel Good to feel Good. This is getting momentum going, and you can do it, and you will love it. 

 

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

Great 👍..

 

[Phil]

14 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Yeah so pain is experienced sometimes .how can it be related to thoughts ?

I’m not saying that it is. Let it be simple, go to the doctor, tell em where it is and what it feels like. 

Maybe it’s suffering, anxiety or fear of pain?

 

15 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I resonate with this .

The most effective way to get to enjoy true happiness and inner peace in the future is to build the habit of having inner peace and happiness in the present..right here right now.
The vice versa is also true: sacrificing inner peace now for the sake of the imagined future tends to lead to an unhappy future too.

You are always in the presen...meaning the here and now. It is only ever here and it is only ever now. Thus..if you build a habit of valuing the future over the now.. and thereby choose to lack inner peace in the now..yyou always lack the happiness of inner peace because you always be in the now.

I would even go so far as to say an effective way is going to far. Happiness is already the case. It’s the nature of being. 

Peace, like Happiness, can’t really be sacrificed, only obscured. 

Valuing is a thought, not a real thing or activity. I only mention it because it’s on behalf of the separate self, and obscuring is such a slippery, slippery slope. 

 

21 minutes ago, Someone here said:

why I can't get those things as soon as possible? 

One way to point is it’s because God’s smart, where as you’re believing thoughts to the tune there’s a you believing thoughts. 

You wouldn’t want to eat every meal you’ll ever eat, right now. 

God’s really really smart and trustworthy. 

Enjoy it. Slow down. Acknowledge frustration, impatience, irritation if & when, and finish the scale. 

Let it be casual, simple. If it isn’t already, it becomes effortless, or, is revealed to always have been. 

Literally, so to speak though lol, the body will just ‘get it’, as if Home, and ‘do it for ya’. It’s really cool.

 

21 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Why do I have to suffer and spend time and energy to achieve my goals ..?

The suffering is how the thought feels. The thought is on behalf of a nonexistent separate self, which has time & energy. 

Preferences, thoughts, arise as goals. 

Write them on the dreamboard. 

Communion is the ‘way’. 

The attitude will change. You will realize you get to experience. 

 

21 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Why is reality/life structured this way ?

There isn’t another way, because of the nature of ourself. 

Infinite - so it must seem as if there is space. 

Eternal - time. 

Etc, etc. 

 

21 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Why is god such a butthole?

Because God knew how full of shit you’d be. 

Try to keep it limited to coming out of one hole.

 

28 minutes ago, Someone here said:

don't feel the guidance is there with me .

Just notice that’s a thought and don’t buy in. 

 

It’s not per se there with you. It’s more ‘wired into the body’. Emotions. Emotional guidance. 

There is a change of habit to experience. 

Whereas before, self referential thoughts weren’t noticed… now, the intention is to notice them, and it shall be. 

Whereas before, the emotional scale wasn’t used… now, there is intention to use it, and alignment & consciously creating in communion shall be. 

 

33 minutes ago, Someone here said:

It is likely that Maslow's hierarchy of needs which range from the physiological to the social and those of self actualisation come into play. Each person is unique but everyone has certain basic needs. I don't know how people who are homeless manage to endure and it must involve a lot of resilience.

Yes. Preferences. Sincerity. Dreamboard.

 

Another way to look at it… it is not homeless people enduring, it is everyone else. 

That’s all changing. 

 

36 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Thank you for the encouraging words  🙏 

That helped me a lil bit to feel better .

🙏🏼  The Good Feeling is just the Good Feeling though. It arises within you. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mandy]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

Yes .that's obvious as hell. 

What follows from that? because you didn't reinvent the wheel here .

There's no problem believing happiness comes from a thing until the thing is believed to no longer be significant enough to cause happiness through some fault of its own.... or if something else is now desired in place of it... or if the thing believed capable of producing happiness is no longer present, and there's a thought present that it's missing. The discomfort is really the message that the thing never caused happiness in the first place, that the absence of whats wanted is impossible  in actuality, but the thought is believed that it's the absence of the THING that is responsible for contentment having gone missing. 

 

 

[Someone here]

10 minutes ago, Mandy said:

There's no problem believing happiness comes from a thing until the thing is believed to no longer be significant enough to cause happiness through some fault of its own.... or if something else is now desired in place of it... or if the thing believed capable of producing happiness is no longer present, and there's a thought present that it's missing. The discomfort is really the message that the thing never caused happiness in the first place, that the absence of whats wanted is impossible  in actuality, but the thought is believed that it's the absence of the THING that is responsible for contentment having gone missing. 

 

 

Nice .

So how exactly do I dispel this particular belief?  I truly wholeheartedly believe that smoking produces happiness...or listening to music ..or enjoying the beach etc....when I sit and do nothing I don't feel happy.  I either feel bored or peaceful. But zero thrill /excitement. 

[Mandy]

10 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Nice .

So how exactly do I dispel this particular belief?  I truly wholeheartedly believe that smoking produces happiness...or listening to music ..or enjoying the beach etc....when I sit and do nothing I don't feel happy.  I either feel bored or peaceful. But zero thrill /excitement. 

Keep asking yourself if what you believe is really true. Get comfortable with questions that don't have answers, with being stuck with stuff you don't want, being without stuff you do want, and seeing how fleeting it all is, how impotent thought really is, it all amounts to nothing. Instead of disrespecting someone who asks you questions, who doesn't just give you the answer, respect yourself for once. 

[Mandy]

2 hours ago, Alexander said:

But thought and real thing are very different.I know how nicotine withdrawals feels like, off course you get mad.

You can't get a negative cake for your birthday. You can't have a negative cake. You can have a cake or a thought of a cake not being there, which is also just a thought of a cake, and the addition of a thought is what it makes it seem as if there an absence of cake. 

 

If happiness wasn't the "why" behind the cake, we could really talk about cakes, but it's not about cake is it? 

 

 

[Someone here]

4 hours ago, James123 said:

What do you love most in your life? 

 Smoking. 

[Orb]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

 Smoking. 

So why do you want to quit?

[Someone here]

46 minutes ago, Orb said:

So why do you want to quit?

For obvious health reasons.  Don't insult my intelligence. 

[Orb]

@Someone here I dont think smoking is an honest answer. I think you prefer your health over cigarettes right? 

[James123]

5 hours ago, Someone here said:

 Smoking. 

If you stop smoking, it will make you suffer. Anything you suffer from that's your attachment. 

[Someone here]

7 hours ago, Orb said:

@Someone here I dont think smoking is an honest answer. I think you prefer your health over cigarettes right? 

No . To me ciggies are more important than God himself. 

[Someone here]

4 hours ago, James123 said:

If you stop smoking, it will make you suffer. Anything you suffer from that's your attachment. 

Yes that's basically what I'm saying .

So how to let go of all attachments and biases? 

[James123]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

Yes that's basically what I'm saying .

So how to let go of all attachments and biases? 

That's what the spiritual path is. Not your mind, you control the mind.

[Alexander]

3 minutes ago, James123 said:

That's what the spiritual path is. Not your mind, you control the mind.

You can't control the mind.You are never in control what thought will pop up next.There is no free will and it's proven.Welcome to deterministic Universe bro.

[James123]

1 hour ago, Alexander said:

You can't control the mind.You are never in control what thought will pop up next.There is no free will and it's proven.Welcome to deterministic Universe bro.

Prove me these are sentences. And you can understand me.