Alexander Posted October 29, 2023 Author Share Posted October 29, 2023 9 minutes ago, Orb said: There's the true nature, the Self, which is Being/Silence. Then thoughts arise, the thoughts if identified with create an illusion that there's a second thing. They imply it. But, the liberation is in the recognition that you are not the thoughts. And therefore it's soon realized that there actually has never been liberation, because you weren't bound to begin with. Hence, nothing is actually realized. Why are you so obsessed with self referential thoughts.Not all thoughts are about self or create self.You can analyze using thoughts.How about that. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 5 minutes ago, Alexander said: Why are you so obsessed with self referential thoughts.Not all thoughts are about self or create self.You can analyze using thoughts.How about that. What is an example of a thought that has nothing to do with your "self"? Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted October 29, 2023 Author Share Posted October 29, 2023 2 minutes ago, Jonas Long said: What is an example of a thought that has nothing to do with your "self"? When you work and all thoughts are about that work or project,when you worry about someone etc... Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 1 minute ago, Alexander said: When you work and all thoughts are about that work or project,when you worry about someone etc... So, the thoughts are about the work as it relates to you, or the person as they relate to you, no? Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted October 29, 2023 Author Share Posted October 29, 2023 3 minutes ago, Jonas Long said: So, the thoughts are about the work as it relates to you, or the person as they relate to you, no? Yeah so what?I don't see any problems with it.You can also think thoughts that are not related to you. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 Just now, Alexander said: Yeah so what?I don't see any problems with it.You can also think thoughts that are not related to you. There's no problems with that. What is an example of a thought that isn't related to you? Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted October 29, 2023 Author Share Posted October 29, 2023 Just now, Jonas Long said: There's no problems with that. What is an example of a thought that isn't related to you? Sky is blue. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 1 minute ago, Alexander said: Sky is blue. Because you see it as blue? Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted October 29, 2023 Author Share Posted October 29, 2023 5 minutes ago, Jonas Long said: Because you see it as blue? Yeah so what.What is your point? Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 1 minute ago, Alexander said: Yeah so what.What is your point? All thoughts are related to you. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 28 minutes ago, Alexander said: Why are you so obsessed with self referential thoughts.Not all thoughts are about self or create self.You can analyze using thoughts.How about that. 2 minutes ago, Alexander said: Yeah so what.What is your point? Just now, Jonas Long said: All thoughts are related to you. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted October 29, 2023 Author Share Posted October 29, 2023 @Jonas Long Thanks for that insight. Now I am going to mindfully wash my dishes.I will not think about while I am doing it.If my mind wanders into thinking about something I will not see it as problem. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 2 minutes ago, Alexander said: @Jonas Long Thanks for that insight. Now I am going to mindfully wash my dishes.I will not think about while I am doing it.If my mind wanders into thinking about something I will not see it as problem. Cheers 🍻 Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 @Alexander thoughts do not create self. Theres no obsession with self referential thoughts. thoughts imply a subject and object. This is the implied duality. "Why are you (subject) obsessed with self referential thoughts (object)" Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 1 minute ago, Orb said: @Alexander thoughts do not create self. Theres no obsession with self referential thoughts. thoughts imply a subject and object. This is the implied duality. "Why are you (subject) obsessed with self referential thoughts (object)" Thoughts don't create self.... but they do create "self/selves".... Phew for a minute there I lost my elf... Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted October 29, 2023 Author Share Posted October 29, 2023 What if I say I am happy with thinker, you guys say it is an illusion but I am ok with him it doesn't cause me any suffering.Right this moment I am not experiencing any suffering despite thinking.Maybe you guys are wrong . Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 4 minutes ago, Alexander said: Right this moment I am not experiencing any suffering despite thinking.Maybe you guys are wrong . Thoughts arising (what's referred to as thinking) was never the issue, I've brought this up several times in this thread. It's disidentification with thought that's pointed to. Not demonizing thought and trying to make it stop. Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted October 29, 2023 Author Share Posted October 29, 2023 1 minute ago, Orb said: Thoughts arising (what's referred to as thinking) was never the issue, I've brought this up several times in this thread. It's disidentification with thought that's pointed to. Not demonizing thought and trying to make it stop. I see thanks for clarifying that. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 7 minutes ago, Alexander said: What if I say I am happy with thinker, you guys say it is an illusion but I am ok with him it doesn't cause me any suffering.Right this moment I am not experiencing any suffering despite thinking.Maybe you guys are wrong . This is what's known as a strawman argument. You are arguing with a point that nobody has made. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted October 29, 2023 Author Share Posted October 29, 2023 Just now, Jonas Long said: This is what's known as a strawman argument. You are arguing with a point that nobody has made. "Separate self of thoughts" "thinker" "knower".I can be happy with all these. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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