Complete meltdown when tripping

[Rose]

So I took 2.5 grams of blue meanies today. At some point it hit me really hard and I was worried I am forgetting how to breathe. At some point it got very bad, and I was thinking of either calling 911 or my therapist (whom is very spiritual and does psychedelics) 

 

I decided to call my therapist. The problem is that we are 7 hours apart, so it was super late at night for her.

 

She stayed on the phone with me for 2 hours, during which she guided me through it, I cried like a baby during that time, while also feeling like I am dying, like I can’t breathe.

 

With her help it was super beneficial though. I felt like a baby being reborn. I saw how I can’t get out of this “situation” I am in through thinking, thinking seems to always lead me to a roadblock, and then there is more thinking after that. Layers and layers of infinite information, one thing after another, impossible to grasp, but can spend a lifetime chasing. 

I also felt how disconnected I am from my body. I never understood why people emphasize bodily practices so much. Seemed like nonsense to me. But seems like the key now to get out of “thinking myself through life”

 

I do feel really bad about calling her in the middle of the night and like I was a burden. She was with her partner too and had a group session the next morning. 
 

I know this is normal, and this process is messy, but there is still shame around this for me. Like it’s embarrassing and was so not “cool” of me to call her. Something so powerful for me is now clouded with shame. 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Rose

[Phil]

There’s no such thing as breathing. It’s an illusion. The illusion is based on belief, the believing of thoughts, or, thought attachment.

The believing of the thought & that the thought ‘breathing’ actually labels or defines perception and sensation.

 

Likewise, ‘my therapist whom is very spiritual and does psychedelics’.

The illusion of separate selves is thought attachment is beliefs. 

 

Life is suffering. ‘Life’ is a conceptualization. A thought. Thought is ‘brought to rest’ meditatively, and reality is therein more & more ‘seen as it is’. 🤍

The belief rightfully feels discordant. Listen to ‘feeling’. 

 

Be attentive to the worry. Notice ‘I was worried’ is a thought that arises now, and attempt to point to who the thought is actually about, now. ‘Listen’ to the emotion of worry in regard to how the self referential (thought about a separate self in a past) feels - now. Notice the assumption of a past, that there is time / that you’re in time, and were remembering to breathe in a past, and might now forget. 

 

Notice the very word - information is not form, formed, is forming, or will be formed. 

 

Question to the point of absolute certainty - are you the shamer or the shamee?
Do you believe in shame? 

If so - why?

 

If the emotions are listened to vs the self referential thoughts believed - is it still possible to believe in the concept of shame?

 

Notice, in regard to ‘embarrassing’… it’s based solely on the assumption of what the therapist thinks… which there is zero actual experience of… and which is based solely on the assumption you yourself are a thinker. Thinker is a thought, yes?

 

“I also felt how disconnected I am from my body. I never understood why people emphasize bodily practices so much. Seemed like nonsense to me. But seems like the key now to get out of “thinking myself through life”

 

Great ‘work’. 🤍

 

The ‘breathe of life’ meets ‘life is suffering’. ☺️

 

Rather than getting ‘slept away by thoughts’… bring awareness back to itself via feeling “breathing in the stomach”. This slows the activity of thought, and therein slows assumptions down… and allows for ‘listening’ to the guidance as it were. 

 

Thanks for sharing! 

[Rose]

2 hours ago, Phil said:

‘listening’ to the guidance as it were. 

I was wondering this - What does the guidance sound like? Can you recognize guidance from the thought? Is it still using your voice? On my trips it feels like racing insights 

[Phil]

13 minutes ago, Rose said:

I was wondering this - What does the guidance sound like?

Guidance isn’t  sound.  First there is seeing the aversion from. 
https://www.actualityofbeing.com/the-ten-ox-herding-pictures

 

13 minutes ago, Rose said:

Can you recognize guidance from the thought?

It’s ‘felt’.
 

It’s like saying can the sun be recognized by the cloud (in the way.) Clouds & thoughts just appear and disappear, are apparent. 
 

Guidance is for thoughts and isn’t between two as in from one to another. 

 

13 minutes ago, Rose said:

Is it still using your voice?

Not sure what that means. 
 

13 minutes ago, Rose said:

On my trips it feels like racing insights 

Daily meditation makes trips less thought based and therein inherently much more feeling based. It makes a big difference. Consider ‘forgetting how to breathe’ which is a thought on behalf of the sep self vs the insight breathing is illusory and not calling 911 or the therapist. But also don’t go ‘beatin up on yourself’ as that’s really more of the same and also comes to rest meditatively. 
🤍

[Orb]

@Rose what you're going through is totally natural and part of the psychedelic process. 

 

Yep psychedelics can be extremely powerful, I think you did well. 

 

One thing that helps immensely during the peak of a strong trip is to breathe in through the nose and out the mouth for the whole trip and just let all the intense emotion pass through your body. 

 

Walking around your house and expressing gratitude/appreciation is awesome too and arguably what makes trips extremely euphoric. 

 

There's a common belief that says "I'm the boss", then the psychedelic just destroys that belief and you feel so helpless, but if you surrender you merge with the real power which is Sensation/Universe/God. 

 

The greatest people imo are the ones who are completely helpless but are good listeners to source. 

 

We are all listeners, none of the appearances are the source/boss. 

[Phil]

Being, by the way, is not a pointing to a person being x, y or x way. Rather to infinite being, being this. It’s not a state, a mannerism, a way of being or anything like that. It’s synonymous with that you are the creator of your reality. 

[James123]

17 hours ago, Rose said:

So I took 2.5 grams of blue meanies today. At some point it hit me really hard and I was worried I am forgetting how to breathe. At some point it got very bad, and I was thinking of either calling 911 or my therapist (whom is very spiritual and does psychedelics) 

 

I decided to call my therapist. The problem is that we are 7 hours apart, so it was super late at night for her.

 

She stayed on the phone with me for 2 hours, during which she guided me through it, I cried like a baby during that time, while also feeling like I am dying, like I can’t breathe.

 

With her help it was super beneficial though. I felt like a baby being reborn. I saw how I can’t get out of this “situation” I am in through thinking, thinking seems to always lead me to a roadblock, and then there is more thinking after that. Layers and layers of infinite information, one thing after another, impossible to grasp, but can spend a lifetime chasing. 

I also felt how disconnected I am from my body. I never understood why people emphasize bodily practices so much. Seemed like nonsense to me. But seems like the key now to get out of “thinking myself through life”

 

I do feel really bad about calling her in the middle of the night and like I was a burden. She was with her partner too and had a group session the next morning. 
 

I know this is normal, and this process is messy, but there is still shame around this for me. Like it’s embarrassing and was so not “cool” of me to call her. Something so powerful for me is now clouded with shame. 

Stay in darkness and silence alone. Lonelyness is the key, believe me. Because You are only can find You. No help, no one , no knowledge is important, only You are.

 

[Mandy]

First of all knowing and asking for help when you need help is the mark of self love and maturity and don't ever beat up on yourself for that. Second is that if your therapist is bothered by that, she chose the wrong profession... this is what she WANTS to be doing.

 

There's a strong desire here that the shame is covering over, the desire to talk yourself down, to sooth yourself, to express without the condition of having another person there. The desire to channel, the desire to awaken the teacher/guru that's neither within or without. 

2 hours ago, Rose said:

I was wondering this - What does the guidance sound like? Can you recognize guidance from the thought? Is it still using your voice? On my trips it feels like racing insights 

Yes, it's in most cases absolutely still using your voice. You recognize it by how it feels and sometimes by how "loud" and "clear" the words are. You also know you didn't think the thoughts, it's no regurgitation of what you've been thinking about, it's utterly clear and unthought. The needing another person to help you focus when things get rough and unclear isn't because you need the other person necessarily, but when another person is present there is also present the assumption that that person does not know what you are thinking. Therefore the commitment for communication and clear expression arises. We think conversation with ourselves aren't worth it, because "it's just me". Actually it ain't you. In communication and clear expression, thoughts are articulated, made conscious, they slow down, and they are felt more fully. The exact thing happens when you write or speak to a camera. Other people can offer unique perspectives, and help us to focus powerfully, great conversations are magic, and this is NOT said to take away from that or therapy whatsoever however, the condition of the other person's presence is the bugger. That's the desire you overturned here, as I see it. As you get in the flow of expressing for yourself, later the condition of even the writing object or camera fades away as you in your inner voice "speak" to yourself. I would personally suggest to not take any more psychedelics until you get really comfortable journaling, whether through voice or writing, and once you've worked up out of a rut that way through some rough times. It's like taking a laxative with no access to a toilet. 

 

Sometimes meditation or breathing through it doesn't work as to no fault of your own, something wants to be "born". 

[Rose]

On 9/3/2023 at 11:31 PM, Mandy said:

Second is that if your therapist is bothered by that, she chose the wrong profession... this is what she WANTS to be doing.

Thank you, it actually really helped me to think of it this way 

[Blessed2]

On 9/3/2023 at 5:55 AM, Rose said:

I do feel really bad about calling her in the middle of the night and like I was a burden. She was with her partner too and had a group session the next morning. 
 

I know this is normal, and this process is messy, but there is still shame around this for me. Like it’s embarrassing and was so not “cool” of me to call her. Something so powerful for me is now clouded with shame. 

 

This is how fear is either created or liberated from. One if the best insights I've ever had and it was also connected to psychedelics.

 

We experience fear and we also kinda know how to soothe it. Either by calling a friend, 911, or a therapist, or even walking to the neighbour and asking for help.

 

We also know we could just let the thought go, not believe it, and directly follow whatever feels good, choose happiness over truth.

 

What "stops" us in both cases is guilt, insecurity or unworthiness going unacknowledged.

 

So then we sit on the floor experiencing most horrible terror of bad tripping and don't let ourselves to call 911 or walk to the neighbour. Or even allow it to be considered and the experience of guilt, insecurity, unworthiness or the concept of shame (and how it feels) to dawn in our minds. Which would also feel better.

 

Or our minds go racing over the fear of whatever and we don't let ourselves just focus on breathing, focus on what feels better and forget the whole "issue". Because one has to be strong and fix the "problem" or whatever. "I can't just forget this, I can't just distract myself, that would be blasphemy!" "That should not be done, doing the right thing is needed."

 

Ego, ego, ego. The very roots of the ego.