I feel doubt and unworthiness most of the time

[Nadosa]

Hey guys,

 

I need these lines for emptying out a bit. As my musical journey progresses and also my musical direction changes, as it all gets a bit more serious regarding the musical projects - I feel like the more serious the relation and attachment towards those things get, the more do I feel doubt and feelings of unworthiness. Conzeptualized in following "what if's" and thoughts:

 

What if I look silly on stage?

We totally changed musical directions, what if it totally fails?

 

The most difficult aspect is: I always MUST know if people liked it. And if they didnt, I start questioning the entire project. 

 

It's gone so far that I can consiously see that beliving the conzeptualization FEELS bad but I NONETHELESS habitually choose to believe it because I dont know?!??

 

Same goes with my family.

 

If my mum doesnt like what I do musically, I feel such a huge emotional response of unworthiness and doubt. I feel so unbelievably dependent on others opinions. Especially my moms.

 

Same goes with intimate relationships.

 

Then thoughts...

 

The issue is: I try to openly express this to my band mates. But I must admit that the unworthiness kills the vibe slowly but steady. Because I DO NOT hesitate to openly say: "I doubt people will like like this, or I dont want to put this out because we look silly."

 

Fortunately, my band mates are basically the most grounded guys I could ever wish for. They know how to handle Drama queens. 

 

I am killing my own life goals by not knowing what to do with these emotions. They feel so strong. As if they pull me deeply into questioning every aspect of myself. 

 

Do I look shitty?

Why dont they dance?

Yadadada

 

I recently started emptying out, meditating and expressing via the scale. 

 

The emotional response to mostly anything regarding music, girls and relationships is: doubt, uncertainty and unworthiness. And in acute situations, I cant seem to consciously express them without wildly starting to ruminate...

 

Anyone?

 

Thanks

 

Phil

 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2023 by Nadosa

[WhiteOwl]

14 minutes ago, Nadosa said:

What if I look silly on stage?

We totally changed musical directions, what if it totally fails?

Yes, then what?

 

14 minutes ago, Nadosa said:

I always MUST know if people liked it

What if they don't? What happens then?

 

Its really helpful to sit down and enquire deeply into those questions. Why is it like that for you, and how did it start?

 

I also have a music endeavor going, and i can recognize a lot of what you write. Enquiring and scrutinizing (as Phil would say) your beliefs might change everything. 

 

One more thing, i recently started tapping. I do one "session" each morning and maybe one in the evening, and its really doing wonders for how i feel and look at things. This guy on youtube has short videos for every topic. Find the ones that resonates the most if you want to try. Its really been amazing so far.

 

[Nadosa]

@WhiteOwl thanks!

 

Probably has to do with the childhood.

 

Being dependent on fulfilling my Brother's desires, it was the way he made me feel worthy if I did certain things for him or even against him (for example when I was 8/9 he stood right in front of the door, not letting me through until I punched him hard in the face to "Man-Up"). I can relive this moment. This hatred was so strong. I didnt want to do this. I didnt. Really. But I couldnt express it otherwise than hitting him, as he desired. This hatred was because he wanted me to punch him. He started provoking more and more.

 

If I didnt do certain things, I would get fired out of an imaginary club he created, but never existed. And of course, I believed this club was the one and only thing that made me a worthy human being.

 

Till this day, I cant seem to lead a true authentic conversation with him.

 

I dont know why.

 

Arent those normal Brother-Brother Situations?

Edited May 28, 2023 by Nadosa

[WhiteOwl]

I never had a brother, but i think so. I  only have  an older sister who i drove quite insane sometimes. Im afraid i would have been a monster if i had a younger brother. 

I always thought brotherhood was amazing, but also really tough. So much competition. 

Sorry to hear you feel like that with him. Luckily things can turn to the opposite. 

 

Around the questions: What is so bad about looking silly on stage? What happens if people don't like your music? Not asking for you to answer me, but to sit with the questions yourself. If you want to be free from beliefs, you have to see them clearly for what they are.

 

[Phil]

@Nadosa

Hi!

 

When are thoughts experienced?

When are emotions experienced?

What is the exception?

 

What is the difference between knowing & doing… and listening?

 

Is fear felt, acknowledged, allowed and received fully?

 

[Nadosa]

@WhiteOwl thanks, i'll do that later and respond after that!

 

@Phil

 

When, as in which situations?

When, as in "time"?

 

I dont really know what to respond to the other questions 😅

 

Fear is recognized, but not expressed, most of the time. Because then I would probably cry and run away and just want to be with it, alone. That's how it was dealt with earlier, just to be with fear.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Nadosa

[Phil]

@Nadosa

 

Emotions are felt or not felt, now only.

Yes?

 

You never leave now and go to a past or future… and experience thoughts or emotions in a past or future.

Yes?

 

There is no exception to this.

Yes?

 

16 hours ago, Nadosa said:

What if I look silly on stage?

We totally changed musical directions, what if it totally fails?

Thoughts arise about a future. 

But emotion is felt now and not in a future.

Yes?

 

16 hours ago, Nadosa said:

The most difficult aspect is: I always MUST know if people liked it. And if they didnt, I start questioning the entire project. 

Thoughts arise about what always must be the case.

But emotion is felt now and not in a future.

Yes?

 

16 hours ago, Nadosa said:

It's gone so far that I can consiously see that beliving the conzeptualization FEELS bad but I NONETHELESS habitually choose to believe it because I dont know?!??

Thoughts arise about how far something has gone in a past.

But emotion is felt now and not in a past.

Yes?

 

16 hours ago, Nadosa said:

If my mum doesnt like what I do musically, I feel such a huge emotional response of unworthiness and doubt. I feel so unbelievably dependent on others opinions. Especially my moms.

Thoughts arise about opinions in a future.

But emotion is felt now and not in a future.

Yes?

 

16 hours ago, Nadosa said:

The issue is: I try to openly express this to my band mates. But I must admit that the unworthiness kills the vibe slowly but steady. Because I DO NOT hesitate to openly say: "I doubt people will like like this, or I dont want to put this out because we look silly."

Thoughts arise about people’s opinions in a future.

But emotion is felt now and not in a future.

Yes?

 

16 hours ago, Nadosa said:

I am killing my own life goals by not knowing what to do with these emotions. They feel so strong. As if they pull me deeply into questioning every aspect of myself

Thoughts arise about doing something in a future.

But emotion is felt now and not in a future.

Yes?

 

16 hours ago, Nadosa said:

Do I look shitty?

Why dont they dance?

Thoughts arise about what other people might think in a future.

But emotion is felt now and not in a future.

Yes?

 

16 hours ago, Nadosa said:

I recently started emptying out, meditating and expressing via the scale

Thoughts arise about a past.

But emotion is felt now and not in a past.

Yes?

 

16 hours ago, Nadosa said:

The emotional response to mostly anything regarding music, girls and relationships is: doubt, uncertainty and unworthiness. And in acute situations, I cant seem to consciously express them without wildly starting to ruminate...

Thoughts arise about emotions being felt in “acute situations”, which are other than now. 

But emotion is felt now and not in other times / situations.

Yes?

 

 

I feel doubt and unworthiness most of the time.

Thoughts arise about “most of the time”. 

But emotion is felt now and not in “most of the time”.

Yes?

 

 

[Nadosa]

16 hours ago, Phil said:

@Nadosa

 

Emotions are felt or not felt, now only.

Yes?

 

You never leave now and go to a past or future… and experience thoughts or emotions in a past or future.

Yes?

 

There is no exception to this.

Yes?

 

Thoughts arise about a future. 

But emotion is felt now and not in a future.

Yes?

 

Thoughts arise about what always must be the case.

But emotion is felt now and not in a future.

Yes?

 

Thoughts arise about how far something has gone in a past.

But emotion is felt now and not in a past.

Yes?

 

Thoughts arise about opinions in a future.

But emotion is felt now and not in a future.

Yes?

 

Thoughts arise about people’s opinions in a future.

But emotion is felt now and not in a future.

Yes?

 

Thoughts arise about doing something in a future.

But emotion is felt now and not in a future.

Yes?

 

Thoughts arise about what other people might think in a future.

But emotion is felt now and not in a future.

Yes?

 

Thoughts arise about a past.

But emotion is felt now and not in a past.

Yes?

 

Thoughts arise about emotions being felt in “acute situations”, which are other than now. 

But emotion is felt now and not in other times / situations.

Yes?

 

 

I feel doubt and unworthiness most of the time.

Thoughts arise about “most of the time”. 

But emotion is felt now and not in “most of the time”.

Yes?

 

 

Yes

[Phil]

On 5/28/2023 at 6:15 PM, Nadosa said:

They know how to handle Drama queens. 

 

On 5/28/2023 at 6:15 PM, Nadosa said:

I feel so unbelievably dependent on others opinions

Is that true?

 

As in… is that feeling, what’s felt, emotion… or is that a belief, and the emotions experienced is how the belief feels?

What’s a better feeling thought?

 

That’s what’s emptied… isn’t it so?

Unburdened, unfettered.

Liberation. 

[Nadosa]

Yep. Always now. Always now. And now is the only opportunity to feel. And realizing that now is the game changer, you feel good.

[Phil]

@Nadosa

The ego / suffering is always the content of thoughts about a second self in a past or future, and never actually present. 

The discord / suffering felt is typically projected or assumed to be anything or anyone or anywhere  else.

‘Now’ without ego / suffering… is you.

You without suffering is definitely preferable to you with suffering. 

 

So it’s not that there’s an opportunity to feel. 

Feeling is the case regardless. 

The opportunity is noticing which thoughts are discordant / suffering, and why this is. 

Not to do something with the emotions, but to connect the dots between the thoughts and the emotions felt. 

In the ‘between you and You🤍’ sense. 

 

Validation & approval wise… what’s wanted is the Good feeling. What’s free and already the case, is the Good feeling.

What’s overlooking the Good feeling… is actually the Good feeling. 

It’s natural for beliefs that the Good feeling is coming from others, substances, experiences, etc to fall away. 

[Nadosa]

What about the pessimism? About each and everything? I feel like I want others to feel bad about it (i.e. a concert, a song the crowd didnt like that much...) too. And blame others for example: we're gigging soon at a Festival and unfortunately very early in the afternoon midst week, probably not gonna have a big crowd then.

 

I dont hesitate openly expressing: "Look, the crowd may be looking dead again..."

 

Answer by my bandmate is: "you piss me off, you give me such a bad feeling with your pessimism. It isnt useful to go into the Gigs with your attitude,  we must see it as a chance."

 

What do I do about that?

 

Actually I feel anger and revenge and want them to feel bad for answering back like that.

 

But i apologized for my message.

 

I tend to draw a black cloud over everything. It feels so manipulative.

Edited May 31, 2023 by Nadosa

[Someone here]

18 hours ago, Phil said:

It’s natural for beliefs that the Good feeling is coming from others, substances, experiences, etc to fall away

Could you please elaborate? 

I never understood how can I just sit down and be happy(for no reason at all aka unconditional happiness). I need to be doing something. Something thrilling and exciting. Otherwise the present moment feels hollow and empty and quite boring . 

How is happiness or good feeling already the case when I'm hungry for example?  It sure seem like I won't be happy unless I first relinquish my hungr.

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

Could you please elaborate? 

In a nutshell, ego. 

 

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

I never understood how can I just sit down and be happy(for no reason at all aka unconditional happiness).

https://www.actualityofbeing.com/subject-objects-thoughts

The ‘understander’ (subject) and ‘understanding’ (object) are the content of thoughts.

‘My understanding’ = ego, or, the ‘separate self’ of thoughts, which is an illusion of believing thoughts. 

 

Waitress says ‘chicken or steak?’

Thought, preference arises… ‘chicken’.

A thought then arises in hindsight… “I chose chicken”. That thought is the ego, assumption of a separate self… overlooking, ignore-ance - suffering. It’s suffering in that it’s felt. I’s ignore-ance in that the felt is ignored, in favor of believing the thoughts. 

 

The clown which takes a bow after a performance it wasn’t in. There was no separate self, no chooser, etc, present. It’s just assumed in hindsight via believing the thought that there was. Understanding is exactly the same. 

 

The belief in understanding = the belief in duality. 

The belief in duality obscures nondual unconditional happiness. 

The belief in understanding reinforces the ego (and therein lack, shortage, etc. All ‘things’ ego / separate self). 

 

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

I need to be doing something. Something thrilling and exciting. Otherwise the present moment feels hollow and empty and quite boring . 

The belief ‘I am separate’ (ego / suffering / understander) is perpetuated by projecting the felt emotion of boredom, onto a ‘second thing’, as a judgement, as ‘the knower’. But it’s how the beliefs feel. 

 

It might be simpler to say ‘boring’ is essentially judging a separate thing which there isn’t as, ‘bad’. 

Essentially, you’re the devil. The one who knows there is good & bad and judges accordingly, while overlooking this is the casting of oneself out of heaven, via ignoring emotion is how the thoughts feel. It’s the refusal to be parallel. Vanity of the finite mind / understanding. 

 

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

How is happiness or good feeling already the case when I'm hungry for example?  It sure seem like I won't be happy unless I first relinquish my hungr.

You are the happiness / good feeling, which is believing the thoughts you are appearing as. You’re believing & saying there is a second self… a self other Yourself, which is appearing as the thoughts about another self which is hungry. Notice the subtly; ‘I’m hungry’, ‘I won’t be happy’, ‘I first…’. 

 

https://www.actualityofbeing.com/contemplations-1

 

 

Careful btw not to pigeonhole this as philosophical. 

It’s truly about well being. 

 

It’s difficult to sit in an empty room alone because knowing & understanding are beliefs (dualistic assumptions). So to speak, you believe you know & understand what ‘it’ is, and even go so far as to judge “it” as boring. Those beliefs naturally fall away the longer ‘one sits in a room’, and or questions the beliefs. 

[Someone here]

33 minutes ago, Phil said:

The ‘understander’ (subject) and ‘understanding’ (object) are the content of thoughts.

‘My understanding’ = ego, or, the ‘separate self’ of thoughts, which is an illusion of believing thoughts. 

 

Waitress says ‘chicken or steak?’

Thought, preference arises… ‘chicken’.

A thought then arises in hindsight… “I chose chicken”. That thought is the ego, assumption of a separate self… overlooking, ignore-ance - suffering.

45 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

It’s suffering in that it’s felt. I’s ignore-ance in that the felt is ignored, in favor of believing the thoughts. 

 

The clown which takes a bow after a performance it wasn’t in. There was no separate self, no chooser, etc, present. It’s just assumed in hindsight via believing the thought that there was. Understanding is exactly the same. 

 

The belief in understanding = the belief in duality. 

The belief in duality obscures nondual unconditional happiness. 

The belief in understanding reinforces the ego (and therein lack, shortage, etc. All ‘things’ ego / separate self

Great 👍  thanks .

So I agree that belief in separation (subject and object ) might cause psychological suffering . But I don't find happiness even In trying to get rid of my ego (I know this is a silly notion because the one who is trying to rid himself from the ego IS the fucking ego .). But then what can be done to be egoless? What is the whole point of spirituality? 

 

Most people practice spirituality because they feel dissatisfied and disillusioned with life.. in a general way or for some specific reason. It is rare to meet someone who has turned to the spiritual path simply out of curiosity and not because of a real need to alleviate some discomfort or a painful situation.

42 minutes ago, Phil said:

It might be simpler to say ‘boring’ is essentially judging a separate thing which there isn’t as, ‘bad’. 

Essentially, you’re the devil. The one who knows there is good & bad and judges accordingly, while overlooking this is the casting of oneself out of heaven

So the ego is the devil which is standing In its own way.  Isn't that in itself a judgement?  Like you are trying to demonize the ego whilst the ego's job is basically to demonize things 😆 lol

44 minutes ago, Phil said:

You are the happiness / good feeling, which is believing the thoughts you are appearing as. You’re believing & saying there is a second self… a self other Yourself, which is appearing as the thoughts about another self which is hungry. Notice the subtly; ‘I’m hungry’, ‘I won’t be happy

I didn't understand that part .

45 minutes ago, Phil said:

Careful btw to pigeonhole this as philosophical. 

It’s truly about well being. 

Sure.

46 minutes ago, Phil said:

It’s difficult to sit in an empty room alone because knowing & understanding are beliefs (dualistic assumptions). So to speak, you believe you know & understand what ‘it’ is, and even go so far as to judge “it” as boring. Those beliefs naturally fall away the longer ‘one sits in a room’, and or questions the beliefs. 

So after your awakening you no longer experience boredom or feel the need to kill some time playing some chess on your phone or anything stupid like that ?

[Phil]

10 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Great 👍  thanks .

So I agree that belief in separation (subject and object ) might cause psychological suffering . But I don't find happiness even In trying to get rid of my ego (I know this is a silly notion because the one who is trying to rid himself from the ego IS the fucking ego .). But then what can be done to be egoless? What is the whole point of spirituality? 

What’s a point?

 

10 minutes ago, Someone here said:

 

Most people practice spirituality because they feel dissatisfied and disillusioned with life.. in a general way or for some specific reason. It is rare to meet someone who has turned to the spiritual path simply out of curiosity and not because of a real need to alleviate some discomfort or a painful situation.

I guess I wouldn’t know as that’d be Phil’s story. 

 

13 minutes ago, Someone here said:

So the ego is the devil which is standing In its own way.  Isn't that in itself a judgement?  Like you are trying to demonize the ego whilst the ego's job is basically to demonize things 😆 lol

No. It’s the natural overlooking, or, that infinite can not know (or understand) finite. There’s nothing wrong with the fact that you’re the devil, demonizing demonizing. 

Of all the animals, the snake is a good fit. It’s like the sneakery of the unmeditative mind. Always slithering around everything. 

 

16 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I didn't understand that part

You are the happiness / good feeling, which is believing the thoughts you are appearing as. You’re believing & saying there is a second self… a self other Yourself, which is appearing as the thoughts about another self which is hungry. Notice the subtly; ‘I’m hungry’, ‘I won’t be happy’.

 

Because it’s assumed there is understanding which will somehow lead to Yourself. 

That’s a collective belief. Seeking, basically.  

It’s dispelled by pointing to it, like the belief in a unicorn. 

 

19 minutes ago, Someone here said:

So after your awakening you no longer experience boredom or feel the need to kill some time playing some chess on your phone or anything stupid like that ?

The assumption / belief there are separate selves is being projected onto awakening. 

Awakening is that there aren’t separate selves, and this is already the case. Not ‘something understood’, ‘realized’, ‘known’. 

‘My awakening(s)’ = ego. 

Awake & asleep is an assumed duality / belief. Neither is ever actually experienced.

Beliefs are dispelled, what remains must be absolute / ‘Truth’. 

 

What’s thought to be boredom is almost always un-acknowledged pessimism. When boredom is mentioned, it’s typically ‘held’ as a problem.

Being totally transparent, I can’t even recall boredom. I can’t honestly say I remember what it’s like. It’s the same as not existing. 

[Phil]

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

How is happiness or good feeling already the case when I'm hungry for example?  It sure seem like I won't be happy unless I first relinquish my hungr.

Having said all that, it’s easiest to just point to the my, which implies there is an additional self, to whom the hunger belongs or is the possession of. 

Ourself is being called “hunger”. 

There isn’t a ‘second self’. 

 

 

Also, you might explore deep relaxation which is essentially grounding. Think of those Russian dolls where there’s like 5 and each is inside the other. Relax deeper and deeper inwardly. Think of it as if there’s 5 bodies, and you’re allowing relaxation inward to each one, with each being deeper than the last. When you get to ‘the bones’, it’s bliss. By the time you get half way there (so to speak of course)… concerns have been let go. 

[Someone here]

57 minutes ago, Phil said:

What’s thought to be boredom is almost always un-acknowledged pessimism. When boredom is mentioned, it’s typically ‘held’ as a problem.

Being totally transparent, I can’t even recall boredom. I can’t honestly say I remember

Love that !

Please elaborate..I want to understand more 🙏 

[Phil]

@Someone here

It’s not really understood. It’s Self. 

(Infinite) being, and appearance of (infinite) being. 

 

What’s the opposite of boredom? Likely, peace. Peace is never experienced. Peace is Self. Self never experiences Self. Self is Self. 

Same for impatience. Impatience is experienced. What’s the opposite? Patience. Is there ever an experience of patience? No. Why not? 

Because patience is Self. 

Pessimism is experienced. What’s the opposite? Optimism. Is optimism ever actually experienced? No. Why not. 

Because optimism is Self. 

 

[Someone here]

11 minutes ago, Phil said:

What’s the opposite of boredom? Likely, peace

I'd day excitement.  Peace is the opposite of fear or being disturbed in some way . What do you think ? We can have a conversation about this but it seems obvious to me .

12 minutes ago, Phil said:

Peace is never experienced. Peace is Self. Self never experiences Self. Self is Self. 

What's tripping me up is the notion that peace/goodness/perfection/love (or however you want to call it ) is identical to the Self . Or something inherent in consciousness or existence. But honestly in direct experience there is as well the opposite of that like depression, sadness ,anguish, boredom...to name a few .

Can you guide me to realize how I'm always in peace and show me the barriers that are preventing me from realizing this ?

Look ,I'm dead serious about this.  I have tried everything under the sun ..I came to the conclusion that nothing in this world of samsara/dukkha will truly 'do it '  for me ...I'm on the spiritual path now for 5 years .and still haven't awoken to Love 😕.