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Expressing loneliness... once again.


Forza21
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 In past few weeks, I am really open to feel everything.

Every emotion is welcome, fear, anxiety, terror, panic, whatever it is. 

I've been running, whole my life, from my biggest fear, - fear of loneliness, and it's time to face it.

 

It comes from my childhood ( many events, like for example, the man who were supposed to protect me - my father, once when he was furious, he almost ran over me. Then he left me alone. )

it's difficult to accept that i'm alone.

 

I was born alone. I'm living alone. And i'll die alone. Nothing can ever change that. 

I'm not possibly talking about solipsism, but the very fact of human nature.

 

I can't possibly "touch" "others", become "one" with them, it's beyond my reach.

 

And it's so frustrating. Even when you love so much, you just can't drown your loneliness.

No matter how much you love your wife/kids, it's like always missing something.  Like there's still that shadow of loneliness present. 

 

And still, there's a giant discord felt.

 

Why loneliness is a such pain, such discord, when it's our true nature?

Why "loneliness" isn't in "emotional scale" ? i'm pretty sure this is some different feeling than simply "fear" "anxiety" etc.
 

It's like you have this best thing ever, and you want to share it, and yet, there's no one to help or to give it to.

What is the point? 

I don't want to live just for the sake of myself.   It's like having all the wealth in the world, and still being alone on the giant yacht,not being able to share the joy and happiness.
 

I  struggle a lot with my relationship. I know @Philsaid that there's only one being present in that - it doesn't make any sense logically, i still can't imagine who i'm actually talking to while facing her.   

 

I just can't possibly grasp that. Mind always turns in into "i'm here and she's not there..."

 

There's also a lot of anger. Like :
"This fucking path should led me to peace and happiness, and it turns out, that it's only me and my room, no outside world, so fucking great being here, lonely. "|
"Life doesn't have any purpose if it's only me"
" For what should i work? i used to work to help someone, and now... what's the point?"


And honestly, even dream board doesn't make any difference, because with that "perspective" there's literally no point to attain any experience. I could learn to Lucid dream and it's the same. Pointless...

 

if you have something to share, please do 🙂
 

P.S 
Phil, would you consider recording video with your wife and talk about how you both "see" it ? There's literally no video like that on YouTube, when a couple talks about non-dual understating in relationship.  It would be great.


love ❤️

 

 


 

 

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6 hours ago, Forza21 said:


it's difficult to accept that i'm alone.

 

I was born alone. I'm living alone. And i'll die alone. Nothing can ever change that. 

The key of the path is the you, who is alone, born or die is illusion in the first place. Whatever you "think" is illusion itself. 

"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows."

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19 hours ago, James123 said:

The key of the path is the you, who is alone, born or die is illusion in the first place. Whatever you "think" is illusion itself. 

Yes, and somehow mind always seems to trick me into beliving it… 

 

17 hours ago, Phil said:

There is no such thing as a thought about yourself which is true. The self which can be thought about is not the self. 


i am doing my best. I medidate a looot, and theres times with great clarity (for example after our talk…❤️ ) but it gets blurry after time, and some „isms” win in the end. And The greater clarity and freedom from ego mind, the harder it comes back…  This path is rough. 🥲 

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On 12/26/2022 at 3:03 AM, Forza21 said:

 In past few weeks, I am really open to feel everything.

Feel right now that there isn’t a ‘past few weeks’, just the thought that there is / was. 🙂

The thought is felt; not time. 

The thought, ‘time’, is also felt. 

On 12/26/2022 at 3:03 AM, Forza21 said:

Every emotion is welcome, fear, anxiety, terror, panic, whatever it is. 

Feel the emotion fear, and the bodily sensations anxiety, terror & panic. 

The emotion fear points out a discordant belief, bodily sensation points out the momentum of. 

 

On 12/26/2022 at 3:03 AM, Forza21 said:

I've been running, whole my life, from my biggest fear, - fear of loneliness, and it's time to face it.

Fear is an emotion, and is not fear of any thing. It’s guidance about the thoughts. 

Where is “my whole life”?

Where is “time”?

Where is this “runner”?

What if you’ve never even moved?

 

On 12/26/2022 at 3:03 AM, Forza21 said:

 

It comes from my childhood ( many events, like for example, the man who were supposed to protect me - my father, once when he was furious, he almost ran over me. Then he left me alone. )

it's difficult to accept that i'm alone.

It’s difficult (impossible) to accept solipsism, because it’s not truth, it’s the activity of thoughts like any other ism. By all means, express & heal the inner child, but also, only a fool listens to fools. Listen to the discord. Nip it in the bud. 

 

On 12/26/2022 at 3:03 AM, Forza21 said:

 

I was born alone. I'm living alone. And i'll die alone. Nothing can ever change that. 

Actually, no longer believing rationalization over direct experience changes that. 

More so, what is already the case is unchangeable and perfect as is.

Beliefs are felt as, beliefs.

 

On 12/26/2022 at 3:03 AM, Forza21 said:


I'm not possibly talking about solipsism, but the very fact of human nature.

The true nature of ‘humans’ is unconditional love. You are talking about solipsism. You’re trying to make the activity of thoughts the truth and the truth is feeling the discord therein. 

 

On 12/26/2022 at 3:03 AM, Forza21 said:

 

I can't possibly "touch" "others", become "one" with them, it's beyond my reach.

There is no separate self. You’re already One... which is precisely why some beliefs feel ‘off’.  

Of course love can not touch love, love is what “touch” is. 

 

On 12/26/2022 at 3:03 AM, Forza21 said:

 

And it's so frustrating. Even when you love so much, you just can't drown your loneliness.

There isn’t your loneliness. There’s how those thoughts feel. 

Use the emotion scale, from frustration to love. 

 

On 12/26/2022 at 3:03 AM, Forza21 said:

No matter how much you love your wife/kids, it's like always missing something.  Like there's still that shadow of loneliness present. 

There’s no separate self for which there are separate selves. 

‘That’ is The Love that You Are. 

Pure Magic, utter Mystery. 

Love is not ‘yours’ anymore than fear is of some thing. 

 

On 12/26/2022 at 3:03 AM, Forza21 said:

And still, there's a giant discord felt.

 

Why loneliness is a such pain, such discord, when it's our true nature?

Because it isn’t. 

The human condition is the (belief) condition there are humans. 

That’s what blasphemy is, and that’s how it feels. 

 

On 12/26/2022 at 3:03 AM, Forza21 said:

 

Why "loneliness" isn't in "emotional scale" ?

Because it’s a concept, like shame or solipsism. The concept, thought, belief, is what’s felt. Emotion is guidance in that regard. 

 

On 12/26/2022 at 3:03 AM, Forza21 said:

i'm pretty sure this is some different feeling than simply "fear" "anxiety" etc.

Fear’s an emotion, anxiety’s a sensation, feeling is self. 

(And not even). 

 

On 12/26/2022 at 3:03 AM, Forza21 said:

It's like you have this best thing ever, and you want to share it, and yet, there's no one to help or to give it to.

What are you thinkin THIS is?

There’s no catch! 

You’re home for a while, you wanna go out. You go out for a while, you wanna be home. 

When home, you don’t have to believe there’s a problem with going out. 

When you’re out, you don’t have to believe there’s a problem with being home. 

As infinite being, have your cake and eat it too. Going out & being Home are One. 

There’s no catch!!

 

“But when you return, how will we know it’s really You?”

“Movement and repose” - Jesus

(Not. Two.)

 

On 12/26/2022 at 3:03 AM, Forza21 said:

What is the point? 

M’F’ing THIS. 

Dreamboard, stat! 

 

On 12/26/2022 at 3:03 AM, Forza21 said:

 

I don't want to live just for the sake of myself.   

Who or what are you actually talking about?

 

On 12/26/2022 at 3:03 AM, Forza21 said:

It's like having all the wealth in the world, and still being alone on the giant yacht,not being able to share the joy and happiness.

You’re the yacht.

The yacht is joy & happiness.  

 

On 12/26/2022 at 3:03 AM, Forza21 said:


 

I  struggle a lot with my relationship. I know @Philsaid that there's only one being present in that - it doesn't make any sense logically, i still can't imagine who i'm actually talking to while facing her.   

‘That’ is literally unconditional love. Solipsism is for ‘who’s’, ‘separate selves’, “intellectuals”. (Which there aren’t). 

 

On 12/26/2022 at 3:03 AM, Forza21 said:

I just can't possibly grasp that. Mind always turns in into "i'm here and she's not there..."

Let the ‘grasping’ go. It’s a hand full of beans. “I know” is an illusion. 

 

You are not an object in spacetime. 

When you dream at night it is as if you are in the dream - isn’t it so?

When you wake up it is clear you were not - isn’t it so?

You aren’t right now! 

 

 

On 12/26/2022 at 3:03 AM, Forza21 said:

 

 

There's also a lot of anger. Like :
"This fucking path should led me to peace and happiness, and it turns out, that it's only me and my room, no outside world, so fucking great being here, lonely. "|

There’s no me. It’s not a true story, and feels as such. Stop shoulding on Yourself. 🙂 

Me & my room is a duality. (Thoughts)

 

On 12/26/2022 at 3:03 AM, Forza21 said:


"Life doesn't have any purpose if it's only me"

Exactly. You’ve been manipulated, sold the self conceptualization of life purpose. Get over it by letting it go. 

 

On 12/26/2022 at 3:03 AM, Forza21 said:

" For what should i work? i used to work to help someone, and now... what's the point?"

Your creation, which is You. 

Be more discerning with garbage. Nip it in the bud. Put feeling first - now! (It’s always ‘now’). 

 

On 12/26/2022 at 3:03 AM, Forza21 said:


And honestly, even dream board doesn't make any difference, because with that "perspective" there's literally no point to attain any experience. I could learn to Lucid dream and it's the same. Pointless...

A dreamboard isn’t a perspective. If a perspective is discordant, the perspective is discordant. 

Dreamboarding isn’t about perspectives, points, life purpose, attaining, learning or any other conceptualizations.

It’s about consciously creating, as creator-creating-creation. 

 

On 12/26/2022 at 3:03 AM, Forza21 said:

 

if you have something to share, please do 🙂

Share the infinite love you are with the infinity creation you are being. 

 

On 12/26/2022 at 3:03 AM, Forza21 said:

 

P.S 
Phil, would you consider recording video with your wife and talk about how you both "see" it ? There's literally no video like that on YouTube, when a couple talks about non-dual understating in relationship.  It would be great.


love ❤️

It’d just be us saying do this…

 

And this…

 

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Thank you, Phil. It always gets me, and puts a tear in my eye, how much work, time, and devotion it takes for you, to answer that specifically. 🥰

  I guess truth cannot be shared by words, language is dualistic in nature. I might give up reading/listening to this stuff and focus just on equanimity/meditation. It's hard, because "spiritual knowledge" gives my this false sense of "security" , but it always backfires anyway, after some time. 🙂

Anyway, thank you so much for everything you do!!!

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On 12/27/2022 at 3:46 PM, Phil said:

 

You are not an object in spacetime. 

When you dream at night it is as if you are in the dream - isn’t it so?

When you wake up it is clear you were not - isn’t it so?

You aren’t right now! 

 

One thing comes to mind - 

 

I've never felt this analogy of "dream" . Advaita - Vedanta is full of it, and i really can't see, how when someone when hear  "life is nothing but a dream" doesn't come to nihilistic or solipsistic conclusions.  I really can't see how it's supposed to be freeing in any way.

 

For example India, where this "dream" narrative is present for hundreds of years, preached by all "mystics" there , and how this country is drowning in misery, and poverty "because it's only a dream... why care about it? Discard it!" 

Isn't it always two side of the coin? Relative = absolute ? This appearance is everything we really have, isn't it so?

 

I wonder how you exactly see it? For example war at Ukraine, there's no one to suffer, or to battle, but does it mean we should totally dismiss it, because it's only a dream? ( it's really closed to my borders, btw.)

I really don't get this analogy. 🙂

 



 

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@Forza21 Have you read ACIM?

 

Really recommend it. It explains the dream of separation and waking up with such clarity no words really do justice.

 

I recommend reading some introductory book on it first. The source material is pretty hard to read right away. Disappearance of the Universe by Gary Renard is pretty good and an easy starting point.

 

If you go for it, be sure to give yourself some time to ground and clear up. I literally got sick for a couple of days because the clarity is just so damn intense, and some discord came up and out. If any questions come up, be sure to ask. It can be a bit confusing at first. Or maybe it was just my experience, dunno.

 

Everyone is waiting for eternity but the Shaman asks: "how about today?"

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6 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

@Forza21 Have you read ACIM?

 

Really recommend it. It explains the dream of separation and waking up with such clarity no words really do justice.

 

I recommend reading some introductory book on it first. The source material is pretty hard to read right away. Disappearance of the Universe by Gary Renard is pretty good and an easy starting point.

 

If you go for it, be sure to give yourself some time to ground and clear up. I literally got sick for a couple of days because the clarity is just so damn intense, and some discord came up and out. If any questions come up, be sure to ask. It can be a bit confusing at first. Or maybe it was just my experience, dunno.


I sure heard about it many times, but to be honest, what keeps me from it, is "dream analogy" and i've seen ACIM is full of it.  There are also some ACIM fundamentalist who says exactly this "it's only a dream it doesn't matter!" i don't really grasp how it might to set me free 🙂 i might give it a try, i sure see, that it works for you! ❤️ 
 

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4 hours ago, Forza21 said:

One thing comes to mind - 

 

I've never felt this analogy of "dream" . Advaita - Vedanta is full of it, and i really can't see, how when someone when hear  "life is nothing but a dream" doesn't come to nihilistic or solipsistic conclusions.  I really can't see how it's supposed to be freeing in any way.

Is it supposed to be freeing, or does it point to the freedom which is already the case? 

 

4 hours ago, Forza21 said:

 

For example India, where this "dream" narrative is present for hundreds of years, preached by all "mystics" there , and how this country is drowning in misery, and poverty "because it's only a dream... why care about it? Discard it!" 

If life’s a dream, wouldn’t  meaning, narratives & caring also be dreamt or of the dream?  

Does a country feel? 

 

4 hours ago, Forza21 said:

Isn't it always two side of the coin? Relative = absolute ?

No. That’s conjecture. 

 

4 hours ago, Forza21 said:

This appearance is everything we really have, isn't it so?

Does a desert have a mirage? 

 

4 hours ago, Forza21 said:

 

I wonder how you exactly see it? For example war at Ukraine, there's no one to suffer, or to battle, but does it mean we should totally dismiss it, because it's only a dream? ( it's really closed to my borders, btw.)

There’s no one to suffer or battle, but there’s a we that could or possibly should dismiss?

 

4 hours ago, Forza21 said:

I really don't get this analogy. 🙂

Life is like a movie. When you’re watching a movie and you see characters, buildings, landscapes, etc, you’re actually seeing light, yes?

And the actuality of that light is the screen, yes?

Is the screen in the movie, or is the screen being the movie? 

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4 hours ago, Forza21 said:

I sure heard about it many times, but to be honest, what keeps me from it, is "dream analogy" and i've seen ACIM is full of it.  There are also some ACIM fundamentalist who says exactly this "it's only a dream it doesn't matter!" i don't really grasp how it might to set me free 🙂 i might give it a try, i sure see, that it works for you! ❤️ 

 

🙏

 

If it's helpful...

 

The dream of separation is the same as beliefs of separation, lack, not-enough, need, guilt, shame etc. The peace of our true nature is "veiled" by the belief-dream, which is like a movie of these discordant beliefs playing out. When we hold a belief in separation and lack, we might experience for example as if we are living lonely lives, in separate individual bodies, always a bit too far from each other. Or that there are penises and vaginas and so we are fundamentally separated from each other, and that's just a fact of nature. Or that there is money which you get or don't get enough from somewhere, and that there are poor people and wealthy people.

 

None of that is actually happening though. It's just a mirage, or like a metaphor of our beliefs. So yeah, waking up does liberate us all, from a nightmare of separation, lack, guilt, shame and fear.

 

 

If needed:

 

If a light is suddenly turned on while someone is dreaming a fearful dream, he may initially interpret the light itself as part of his dream and be afraid of it.

However, when he awakens, the light is correctly perceived as the release from the dream, which is then no longer accorded reality.

This release does not depend on illusions. The knowledge that illuminates not only sets you free, but also shows you clearly that you are free. (ACIM, T-2.I.4:6-9)

 

Everyone is waiting for eternity but the Shaman asks: "how about today?"

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Phil said:

Loneliness, like analogies, is conceptual. Essentially, thought(s).  

 

So when expressing loneliness, what’s felt - is the concept; loneliness. 

Whereas expressing emotions is expressing what’s felt

 

🙏🏻🤍

So what motivates you to:

-write a book ?

-take so much time, to help people like me, and many more. on the forum?

-do youtube channel?
-take care of your relationship?

-take care of your kids?
 

For me  all "ism" thoughts kills any drive to do anything...

why help others when it's only a dream? 
why do anything when it's only a dream?


Pointless, boring, i don't know anymore what's true or not...


and that "dream" analogy for me is nihilistic and solipstic all the way. I used to do youtube channel myself, and it was joyful, but now, i don't know who am i talking to anymore... and anserw " you" brings me all "ism" thoughts possible.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Forza21 said:

So what motivates you to:

-write a book ?

-take so much time, to help people like me, and many more. on the forum?

-do youtube channel?
-take care of your relationship?

-take care of your kids?
 

Great questions.

 

What is motivation, or motive?

What is a you?

 

Motive:

Some thing, such as a need or desire, that causes a person to act.

A mental state or force which induces an act of volition; a determining impulse: specifically, a desire for some thing; a gratification contemplated as the final cause of a certain action of the one desiring it.

 

 

Separate selves (people, person, ‘you’), states, desire & cause - are thoughts, like “unicorn”. 

There is an apparent experience of thoughts - as thoughts appear, like the thought “unicorn”. 

There is no actual experience of these ‘things’, only of the thoughts - just like “unicorn”. 

 

 

In believing these thoughts, these - conditions -  an illusion is experienced, of unconditional being a condition… a, “separate self”. 

This is equivalent to believing there are unicorns, and that you are a unicorn.

 

For the “separate self”, which is “itself” an illusion of believing appearing thoughts… there is “meaning, purpose, worth, value and survival”. 

All of which are thoughts, believed, which keep the story or narrative - the illusion of being a separate self - going.

The survival narrative of thoughts. 

 

That is, thoughts and perception are not things, but rather are an appearance. 

The ‘separate self’ is the my & me of; my thoughts, my purpose, what X means to me, what meaning means to me, what is worthy and or unworthy to me, what is of value and not of value - to me. 

 

This video communicates the discordant & harmful experience of the false survival thought narrative in terms of bodily health with respect to well being.  

 

When the activity of thought meditatively settles, so too does the experience of believing thoughts, and therein the illusion of separate selves & the identity as a separate self is dispelled. In Buddhism terminology this is pointed to as cessation, awakening, or enlightenment. In Christian or Biblical terminology this is referred to as Christ consciousness or God consciousness. In general terms, liberation, seeing reality as it is, being home never having left, wakefulness waking up, or most simply The Truth. 

 

1 hour ago, Forza21 said:

For me  all "ism" thoughts kills any drive to do anything...

What about without - for me

How inspiring could it be to ‘do’ anything at all, for a self which doesn’t exist, yet which all ‘doing’ is attributed to? 

 

1 hour ago, Forza21 said:

why help others when it's only a dream? 

There aren’t others. 

 

1 hour ago, Forza21 said:

why do anything when it's only a dream?

There’s no doer. 

 

1 hour ago, Forza21 said:

Pointless, boring, i don't know anymore what's true or not...

Not, two. 

 

1 hour ago, Forza21 said:

and that "dream" analogy for me is nihilistic and solipstic all the way. I used to do youtube channel myself, and it was joyful, but now, i don't know who am i talking to anymore... and anserw " you" brings me all "ism" thoughts possible.

The dream analogy is an accurate analogy. Very accurate. Nihilism is an ism, meaning is implied - by oneself. Nihilism is essentially denial. It’s like saying “this sucks to me”, while there isn’t that “me”. It’s the meaning believed, that there is an importance to meaning, purpose, worth, value and survival. Which is to say, it is the belief that thoughts are not thoughts, but are things. That is the discord felt. 

 

The ‘self’ in ‘time’ is an illusion of believing thoughts. Self is believing the thoughts. Self is presence, ‘now’ - believing arising thoughts about another self, a finite separate second self, in a ‘past’. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Phil said:

Great questions.

 

What is motivation, or motive?

What is a you?

 

Motive:

Some thing, such as a need or desire, that causes a person to act.

A mental state or force which induces an act of volition; a determining impulse: specifically, a desire for some thing; a gratification contemplated as the final cause of a certain action of the one desiring it.

 

 

Separate selves (people, person, ‘you’), states, desire & cause - are thoughts, like “unicorn”. 

There is an apparent experience of thoughts - as thoughts appear, like the thought “unicorn”. 

There is no actual experience of these ‘things’, only of the thoughts - just like “unicorn”. 

 

 

In believing these thoughts, these - conditions -  an illusion is experienced, of unconditional being a condition… a, “separate self”. 

This is equivalent to believing there are unicorns, and that you are a unicorn.

 

For the “separate self”, which is “itself” an illusion of believing appearing thoughts… there is “meaning, purpose, worth, value and survival”. 

All of which are thoughts, believed, which keep the story or narrative - the illusion of being a separate self - going.

The survival narrative of thoughts. 

 

That is, thoughts and perception are not things, but rather are an appearance. 

The ‘separate self’ is the my & me of; my thoughts, my purpose, what X means to me, what meaning means to me, what is worthy and or unworthy to me, what is of value and not of value - to me. 

 

This video communicates the discordant & harmful experience of the false survival thought narrative in terms of bodily health with respect to well being.  

 

When the activity of thought meditatively settles, so too does the experience of believing thoughts, and therein the illusion of separate selves & the identity as a separate self is dispelled. In Buddhism terminology this is pointed to as cessation, awakening, or enlightenment. In Christian or Biblical terminology this is referred to as Christ consciousness or God consciousness. In general terms, liberation, seeing reality as it is, being home never having left, wakefulness waking up, or most simply The Truth. 

 

What about without - for me

How inspiring could it be to ‘do’ anything at all, for a self which doesn’t exist, yet which all ‘doing’ is attributed to? 

 

There aren’t others. 

 

There’s no doer. 

 

Not, two. 

 

The dream analogy is an accurate analogy. Very accurate. Nihilism is an ism, meaning is implied - by oneself. Nihilism is essentially denial. It’s like saying “this sucks to me”, while there isn’t that “me”. It’s the meaning believed, that there is an importance to meaning, purpose, worth, value and survival. Which is to say, it is the belief that thoughts are not thoughts, but are things. That is the discord felt. 

 

The ‘self’ in ‘time’ is an illusion of believing thoughts. Self is believing the thoughts. Self is presence, ‘now’ - believing arising thoughts about another self, a finite separate second self, in a ‘past’. 

so what's the difference between what Leo says and  what you say?

 

it's like you are way more loving and caring, but when i read this, it seems all the same. It's like Leo says "you are God" and you say " You are unconditional love (God) and there's no further differences in these teachings... You both say that i create all the world...  ( you also mention that there's no "me" but anyway you point back as "you") .  You also say that solipsism is just a thought, but in what you say i see really no difference...

right now i'm feeling frustrated, angry and sad, i feel like i've thought that i'll find some different teaching here, and it really seems all the same...

 

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4 minutes ago, Forza21 said:

right now i'm feeling frustrated, angry and sad, i feel like i've thought that i'll find some different teaching here, and it really seems all the same...

 

Just a question that came to mind... If there was a perfect teaching, the perfect truth, the perfect god, the perfect reality for you, what would it be? What kind of truth / reality would you want? What would a paradise be?

 

Everyone is waiting for eternity but the Shaman asks: "how about today?"

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2 hours ago, Forza21 said:

so what's the difference between what Leo says and  what you say?

 

it's like you are way more loving and caring, but when i read this, it seems all the same. It's like Leo says "you are God" and you say " You are unconditional love (God) and there's no further differences in these teachings... You both say that i create all the world...  ( you also mention that there's no "me" but anyway you point back as "you") .  You also say that solipsism is just a thought, but in what you say i see really no difference...

right now i'm feeling frustrated, angry and sad, i feel like i've thought that i'll find some different teaching here, and it really seems all the same...

 

What is the teaching that is expected or hoped for or wanted?

Whats the ideal teaching? 

 

Any specific questions on what’s already been said?

 

Is there a difference between ‘I’m feeling frustrated, angry and sad’… and the emotions frustration & anger are experienced? 

If so, what’s the difference? 

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

 

Just a question that came to mind... If there was a perfect teaching, the perfect truth, the perfect god, the perfect reality for you, what would it be? What kind of truth / reality would you want? What would a paradise be?

 

12 hours ago, Phil said:

What is the teaching that is expected or hoped for or wanted?

Whats the ideal teaching? 

 

Any specific questions on what’s already been said?

 

Is there a difference between ‘I’m feeling frustrated, angry and sad’… and the emotions frustration & anger are experienced? 

If so, what’s the difference? 

Perfect teaching... Buddha and Jesus comes to mind.

Jesus:

And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.

Buddha:

Have compassion for all beings, rich and poor alike; each has their suffering. Some suffer too much, others too little.

Gautama Buddha



They never used "dream" analogy. 

Buddha was born in India, as you know, there's Hindu tradition and dream analogy is known, and used for centuries. Somehow, Buddha refused to cling to their tradition, and found his own path.

In Buddhism there's only saying about "dreaming-mind" and "clinging to thoughts" not life equal to a nighttime dream.

I've seen enough bad things done by this analogy. On actualize there was countless topics like that. For example, one guy, who got caught by dream analogy, was literally abusing his grandmother, as "she is only his dream".  There was many topics like that, and 'dream analogy" was always an excuse.  Do you really agree with that?

This dream analogy is inhumane. It lacks integration aspect. It lacks the relative aspect to the absolute. You can as well treat everyone like shit, because it's only "dream character". It's not close to Jesus or Buddha teachings. The discord with this analogy is giant.

Osho also refused to ever use it, because he saw, what this analogy has done to his country - where millions of people die in extreme poverty, and none bothers - it's only a dream.

I don't care how accurate it is, i feel giant discord about it, and it's all i care about.

if it comes to me, what's the perfect truth - i'd rather be mortal human, living on earth and die, than alone as "God" who can never share anything with anyone, because he's lonely. This truth of yours doesn't resonate with me. 

Somehow when i talk to Phil on phone it was clear, but when i read the stuff he writes... it brings all shity memories.

 

Edited by Forza21
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It really is more about the way things are said more so then the words used.
Source can never really be pointed to with language, we just do this dance with words. Sometimes we get attached to the language and construct a system about how Source works, but it will never work that way. The connection to Source is a constant emptying & embracing of suchness. Whenever I don’t resonate with a way of wording things I stop using it for awhile, then usually I come back to it after understanding something else and see it in a new light. Meditation is where we can let go of all the wording and uncover our own wording for what is being pointed to, the insights will just come as one empties all the language, thoughts, memories & embracing the Feeling guiding you in regards to the thoughts. 

 

2 hours ago, Forza21 said:

Somehow when i talk to Phil on phone it was clear, but when i read the stuff he writes... it brings all shity memories.


I know what you mean, he is usually being such a bright burning Sun that the what you are feeling becomes really obvious. Focus on the sensations in the body too, relax, and with the memories coming up just let them be there and float where they want. 
 

Ten thousand tears,

One Belly Laugh.

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